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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you cant say Lehner is a bumb -BigDog912
Joined: 06.30.2006

Nov 22 @ 10:29 AM ET
He’s not wrong though.

Acquiring mediocre veterans results in a mediocre team, not a winning team.

So the sens aren’t really in win-now mode. but they are not in build for the future mode either. I think senseless mode is where they are at.

Other than not trading their first away (yet), the season will be a complete waste for both the long and short term.

- Tumbleweed


How many more glorious years do they have Phaneuf for?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Nov 22 @ 10:41 AM ET
Can all the leaf meannie fans stop framing a trade as win now. The sens fans don't beleive that and never said such nonsense.
- burn



Spatso has been conveniently AWOL for about a week.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Nov 22 @ 10:49 AM ET
Spatso has been conveniently AWOL for about a week.
- prock




We know he's definitely not at church, he can post from there....
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Nov 22 @ 11:03 AM ET
How many more glorious years do they have Phaneuf for?
- Aetherial


4 more after this one
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Nov 22 @ 12:34 PM ET
Anyone with a modicum of hockey knowledge (which is most of us here) knows there is little chance of the the Senators "winning now" ............ they're at least a season, probably more, from being a playoff team.

It's all you leaf fans that are framing this year's team as a "win now" team, not any Senator fans.

Ottawa's "odds" to win the Cup this season, currently sit at 45/1, so if your (leaf fans) mind(s) think that's the mark of a "win now" team, then there is no point in trying to debate the issue.

You've all interpreted a trade or two, such as the Phaneauf trade last season, as meaning it's a "win now" trade, and that was last season.

These trades for older players were done for other reasons at the time, and with a longer time line than "win now".

- D0PPELGANGER


oh poop better tell your GM
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Nov 22 @ 12:35 PM ET
Agreed. You don't acquire Phaneuf if you want to win.
- Tumbleweed

systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Nov 22 @ 12:36 PM ET
Ahhh... now we are backtracking on them even being a playoff team? Priceless.
- Aetherial



My favourite is how they're going to somehow be better in a couple years. As if they have any elite young players not in their prime.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Nov 22 @ 12:42 PM ET
How many years will it take for you to appreciate my underlying belief is that the ultimate arbitrator in all things hockey is the scoreboard. The Leafs are a last place team. They will repeat this year as a last place team. What part of that do you not understand?

I entirely concede that it is the right approach for a team that has been the worst value of any sports team in North America for the last 10 years (ESPN). But, wake me up when the Leafs actually produce a score board result.

http://www.thehockeynews....ranchise-in-sports-again/

- spatso


K
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Nov 22 @ 12:46 PM ET
K
- systemtool



He's such a (frank)ing tool. He deserves a tire fire garbage organization like the Sens.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Nov 22 @ 12:47 PM ET
Look, it is pretty straight forward. The Leafs are the last place team in the league and they are about to discover how little impact a group of 18 and 19 year old players have once the hard pace of the NHL kicks in. This is the normal summer buzz of the blue and white. It is completely gone by Christmas and we will see the same pattern next summer.

Much of the bravado is intended to mask the loser results of the past years. But the scoreboard does not lie. The Leafs had the worst record in the NHL. As they stand right now, they are actually a lot less competitive than what they were at this time last year. So get ready for the same result next year.

Also get ready for a whole bunch more postings on how bad the Sens are. Shame is a toxic emotion. It seeks darkness and the edges of our feelings. It becomes infused with our identity. Most Leaf fans feel trapped by an overwhelming identity with the stain of shame. Shame in this case is not how you feel as a Leaf fan, it is what you are. People begin to think that losing is not just what we do, it is the foundation of our being.

- spatso



Probably top 3 of my favourite Spatso meltdowns.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Nov 22 @ 12:51 PM ET
Probably top 3 of my favourite Spatso meltdowns.
- systemtool



He's about to discover how little impact old overpaid declining garbage like Brassard and Phaneuf can have. Along with C level young players like cody Ceci.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Nov 22 @ 12:53 PM ET
He's about to discover how little impact old overpaid declining garbage like Brassard and Phaneuf can have. Along with C level young players like cody Ceci.
- prock


Can't say it enough. The Phaneuf and Brassard trades...Melnyk...it's Ballard all over again.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Nov 22 @ 2:51 PM ET
Hahahahahahahahhahaha. they're desperately TRYING to win now. it's nice that you know they won't but the organization is clearly trying to. melnyks keeps firing coaches because he thinks he has a team that can win and the coaches aren't succeeding at following through with that.

teams that think they can compete trade picks for veterans to push themselves over the top. Ottawa, as shown, is gutting itself of draft picks for players at the end of their prime. it's blatantly clear what is happening.

if they were not trying to win now the phaneuf trade absolutely does not happen. they wait until the short term crap comes off payroll and replaces it with a better young player. they don't take on longer term crap because it helps the roster a little bit now.

- prock




Again that's your spin on the current state of the Senators ...... aka wishful thinking.

Even glucky has explained the reasoning behind the trade between the two Ontario teams, and none of it had to do with with "winning now" as much as you pray that it is, but it was not.


I may be in the minority in thinking the Leafs would have a better on-ice product with Phaneuf on the team this year.

That being said, part of the rebuild was a culture shift, and that involved getting rid of the old guard. With that in mind I think we all knew that it would be hard to move Phaneuf'a cap without taking back another albatross, unless he was moved to a budget team that had no real intention of ever spending to the cap or competing for the cup, that just had to make moves to placate their fanbase, even if those moves were terrible deals.


And thats exactly what happened. And on the plus side it bought us long-term cap relief to improve the team as our prospects develop... and Ottawa saved some cash. It's rare that both teams in a trade accomplish their objectives.

- Feeling Glucky?



Keep deluding yourself if you wish, that's your right, I guess.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Nov 22 @ 2:57 PM ET
So you ignoring all the sens fans this summer saying that they are trying to win now? It's just dumb leaf fans being meannies making poop up?


How convenient

- burn



And by "all the sens fans" you mean just spatso......... is that your definition of all sens fans?




September 20 @ 9:06 AM ET (page 399)



Something along those lines. I said it woudl be pretty close.

With Zaitsev looking so good, and Matthews as well, I think I'm leaning towards the Leafs now. Neither will be playoffs teams, but I'm thinking the Leafs will better, as soon as this year.

- prock



I agree neither team, based on last years play on the ice, should not make the playoffs.

The leafs are going to have a lot of rookies in their line up this season, and could help the team exceed expectations.

Ottawa was made a few changes, and brought in a new coaching staff that wants to play a more defensive overall game ...... including the "trap". So theoretically this could mean more wins in close games.

The other thing to consider is that a number of teams in the division, on paper, have improved their teams, more that either team in Ontario ......... but the games are not played on paper, and injuries and other unforeseen events could enter into the mix.

I think we'll know by US thanksgiving what kinda of progress either team has, or has not made.

- D0PPELGANGER
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Nov 22 @ 6:57 PM ET
Again that's your spin on the current state of the Senators ...... aka wishful thinking.

Even glucky has explained the reasoning behind the trade between the two Ontario teams, and none of it had to do with with "winning now" as much as you pray that it is, but it was not.





Keep deluding yourself if you wish, that's your right, I guess.

- D0PPELGANGER

Sorry Prock, dopps is right. Ottawa has no intention of winning... Melnyks goal is to save as much money as possible.
Pie
Montreal Canadiens
Location: taking the low road
Joined: 10.14.2006

Nov 22 @ 8:06 PM ET
Sorry Prock, dopps is right. Ottawa has no intention of winning... Melnyks goal is to save as much money as possible.
- Feeling Glucky?

shut it down
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Nov 22 @ 9:21 PM ET
shut it down
- Pie

Agreed.

Pretty pointless to keep this going now that Dopps has agreed that Ottawa's focus is on saving money, not winning games.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Nov 23 @ 8:11 AM ET
Agreed.

Pretty pointless to keep this going now that Dopps has agreed that Ottawa's focus is on saving money, not winning games.

- Feeling Glucky?



Can you please "quote" the post when I "agreed" to your interpretation of Ottawa's focus.


Also please explain why the leaf are deviating away from their "focus" as they are rapidly moving away from a prime lottery position.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Nov 23 @ 9:16 AM ET
So.....how bout them scoreboards and standings...

Zibanejad doubling up Brassard in points. Phaneuf his usual train wreck self. Maybe we should wait about another 10 weeks to talk about this...eh Spatso?

- systemtool



Ottawa wins another 1 goal game, still tops in the league as far as I know. Phaneuf on the ice in the last minutes holding off the Habs, with the goaltender pulled.

Too bad about Zibanejad, like the kid, but Brassard scored a gritty goal last night.

First regulation loss for the Habs on home ice this season, first regulation loss for Price.

Now, if the Senators can bring that third period momentum home for Thursday vs the Bruins, maybe they can hold onto a playoff spot past the US Thanksgiving mile marker.

systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Nov 23 @ 10:12 AM ET
Ottawa wins another 1 goal game, still tops in the league as far as I know. Phaneuf on the ice in the last minutes holding off the Habs, with the goaltender pulled.

Too bad about Zibanejad, like the kid, but Brassard scored a gritty goal last night.

First regulation loss for the Habs on home ice this season, first regulation loss for Price.

Now, if the Senators can bring that third period momentum home for Thursday vs the Bruins, maybe they can hold onto a playoff spot past the US Thanksgiving mile marker.

- D0PPELGANGER



Regardless of last night's game I still think the Sens are in a bad situation overall. But I get you're riding the high of a big win and feeling good. It's what being a fan is all about.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Nov 23 @ 10:46 AM ET
Can you please "quote" the post when I "agreed" to your interpretation of Ottawa's focus.


Also please explain why the leaf are deviating away from their "focus" as they are rapidly moving away from a prime lottery position.

- D0PPELGANGER

Look about half way up the page, where you agree that Ottawa's moves aren't made with the intent to win games, but only to save money.

Don't tell me one win is all it takes to make you flip your position.

As for the Leafs, their goal is to win the cup. Rebuilding and developing youth is a big part of that. If the youth is leading the team to victory often enough that they don't get a good draft position... that's a good thing.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: when it's a 3 taco-bell town, maybe they'll be ready, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Nov 23 @ 10:50 AM ET
ottawa is in a playoff spot!!!
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Nov 23 @ 10:57 AM ET
Ottawa wins another 1 goal game, still tops in the league as far as I know. Phaneuf on the ice in the last minutes holding off the Habs, with the goaltender pulled.

Too bad about Zibanejad, like the kid, but Brassard scored a gritty goal last night.

First regulation loss for the Habs on home ice this season, first regulation loss for Price.

Now, if the Senators can bring that third period momentum home for Thursday vs the Bruins, maybe they can hold onto a playoff spot past the US Thanksgiving mile marker.

- D0PPELGANGER



I don't understand why you're so happy about winning one goal games. Wouldn't you rather a team that wins by many goals, and dominates, instead of scraping by? And giving up points to other teams in OT? And even the shootout, which can be a drawback in the standings?

Further, how can you see this as a good sign, a bunch of one goal wins, when the Sens schedule has been so easy?

I don't get why you bring this up. I'd be hiding it if I were you.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Nov 23 @ 11:52 AM ET
Ottawa wins another 1 goal game, still tops in the league as far as I know. Phaneuf on the ice in the last minutes holding off the Habs, with the goaltender pulled.

Too bad about Zibanejad, like the kid, but Brassard scored a gritty goal last night.

First regulation loss for the Habs on home ice this season, first regulation loss for Price.

Now, if the Senators can bring that third period momentum home for Thursday vs the Bruins, maybe they can hold onto a playoff spot past the US Thanksgiving mile marker.

- D0PPELGANGER


How does that work?
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Nov 23 @ 11:56 AM ET
How does that work?
- senstroll

Momentum in sports is a new concept.
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