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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Nov 13 @ 3:32 PM ET
No wonder he's so good, they have to actually fight a goalie after they score a goal in Finland or it doesn't count.
Nucker101
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All right everyone, listen up
Joined: 09.26.2010

Nov 13 @ 3:33 PM ET
No wonder he's so good, they have to actually fight a goalie after they score a goal in Finland or it doesn't count.
- daeth


Now i wish this was real
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Nov 13 @ 3:37 PM ET
Now i wish this was real
- Nucker101

Can't lie, I'd watch the hell out of that.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Nov 13 @ 3:38 PM ET
And Patrick Kane scoooooooooooores! Oh nope, he just took a blocker to the face and he's out cold. NO GOAL.
Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 12 grands is NOTHING in the art market.
Joined: 07.06.2007

Nov 13 @ 3:42 PM ET
And Patrick Kane scoooooooooooores! Oh nope, he just took a blocker to the face and he's out cold. NO GOAL.
- daeth

Not_Yan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: it's an excellent product, easier, quicker, and even better than real mashed potatoes.
Joined: 04.19.2013

Nov 14 @ 10:49 AM ET
the logos were a nice touch
- Crimsoninja


Yes. All in the details.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Nov 14 @ 12:07 PM ET
Last year Ottawa had a GA average of 2.94, 26th best in NHL. So far this year they are 2.34, 8th best overall. Phaneuf has been a tremendous asset for Ottawa. Playing behind Karlsson on the second pairing, Phaneuf has been a key factor in the overall improvement. He has been great for Ottawa so far.

The Leafs have gone from 2.93 GA last year (24th) to 3.60 (28th) this year. They are missing something! Do you not think the Leafs would benefit from having a veteran presence on their back end?

- spatso


Its nice that you compare 15 game to 82 .
but.. Last year they gave up 47 goals in the first 15 games (3.13)

but I dont think Dion would make a bit of difference.. he might be old and played a lot of games (veteran..oooh)... but he is still slow and sucks
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Nov 14 @ 12:11 PM ET
17 goals on 253 shots in Finland last year, 11 goals on 46 shots this year. He's just that good. Expect him to bump his shooting % up to 30% as he learns the NHL game even more. Best goal scorer of all-time.
- daeth


If you take out the 1st game ...Matthews has gone 2-54 (3.7%)
Mathews..once of the worst goal scorers of all-time
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Nov 14 @ 12:20 PM ET
Its nice that you compare 15 game to 82 .
but.. Last year they gave up 47 goals in the first 15 games (3.13)

but I dont think Dion would make a bit of difference.. he might be old and played a lot of games (veteran..oooh)... but he is still slow and sucks

- senstroll



Their goals for has actually dropped just as much as their goals against.

It's nice that they're playing tighter defensively. But on a team with so little talent, if they're not playing a wide open style, guys like Mark Stone, Bobby Ryan, Hoffman, Turris, suddenly drop 10 to 15 points each. Maybe even 20. Does Karlsson break 60 points this year? When he's not completely ignoring defense, and not being historically bad defensively, he probably doesn't come anywhere near the point totals he has in recent years.

Tightening up defensively is something they needed to do. But teams like LA, Boston, etc, were winning playing a tight defensive game, because they had so much talent they would score anyway. Ottawa doesn't have that talent.

If they continue to tighten up according to Boucher's style, it doesn't come without costing them a hell of a lot of goals for. Pretty obvious, no?
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Nov 14 @ 12:34 PM ET
Their goals for has actually dropped just as much as their goals against.

It's nice that they're playing tighter defensively. But on a team with so little talent, if they're not playing a wide open style, guys like Mark Stone, Bobby Ryan, Hoffman, Turris, suddenly drop 10 to 15 points each. Maybe even 20. Does Karlsson break 60 points this year? When he's not completely ignoring defense, and not being historically bad defensively, he probably doesn't come anywhere near the point totals he has in recent years.

Tightening up defensively is something they needed to do. But teams like LA, Boston, etc, were winning playing a tight defensive game, because they had so much talent they would score anyway. Ottawa doesn't have that talent.

If they continue to tighten up according to Boucher's style, it doesn't come without costing them a hell of a lot of goals for. Pretty obvious, no?

- prock



Yeah its great to celebrate how much the gaa has improved... (team .925sv%)..
but on the flip side

Goals for
Leafs 8th 2.93
Sens 27th 2.20

Leafs have gotten .895 from the goalies
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Nov 14 @ 12:44 PM ET
Yeah its great to celebrate how much the gaa has improved... (team .925sv%)..
but on the flip side

Goals for
Leafs 8th 2.93
Sens 27th 2.20

Leafs have gotten .895 from the goalies

- senstroll



Which is just fine by me. For the time being, I have no issues with getting sunk by bad goaltending. It just means you pick up higher draft picks. I'd rather have a really good team getting killed by bad goaltending, than a really bad team getting saved by it.

One can be solved with the addition of one player. The other can't.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: he's 35, time to be fart the messenger boy.
Joined: 06.30.2006

Nov 14 @ 2:29 PM ET
Which is just fine by me. For the time being, I have no issues with getting sunk by bad goaltending. It just means you pick up higher draft picks. I'd rather have a really good team getting killed by bad goaltending, than a really bad team getting saved by it.

One can be solved with the addition of one player. The other can't.

- prock


Not sure about that. Goaltending can be a tough thing to find when you don't have it.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Nov 14 @ 2:40 PM ET
Not sure about that. Goaltending can be a tough thing to find when you don't have it.
- Aetherial



really? You think so? I'd argue quite the opposite in recent years.

Of the vezina finalists in the past few years, Bobrovsky, Bishop, Dubnyk, Varlamov, all traded for scraps. Then you've got guys like Schneider, Mason, who have also been good, reliable goalies, all traded for pretty small packages. Then you also just never know where a goalie is going to pop out of. So many of them are late round picks, that surface out of nowhere. Look at some of them that have backstopped cup winners recently - Matt Murray, Corey Crawford, Niemi a few years back.

There seems to be more goalies that have seen success that have been acquired for nothing, than there are elite guys with pedigree.

I stand by what I say. I'd much rather assemble a good team, with top picks, then add the goalie, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Nov 14 @ 2:57 PM ET
If you take out the 1st game ...Matthews has gone 2-54 (3.7%)
Mathews..once of the worst goal scorers of all-time

- senstroll

He is awful. So disappointing!
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Nov 14 @ 8:25 PM ET
I wouldn't have taken Logan Brown if I were the Sens but why not talk about Chychrun.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Nov 14 @ 8:46 PM ET
really? You think so? I'd argue quite the opposite in recent years.

Of the vezina finalists in the past few years, Bobrovsky, Bishop, Dubnyk, Varlamov, all traded for scraps. Then you've got guys like Schneider, Mason, who have also been good, reliable goalies, all traded for pretty small packages. Then you also just never know where a goalie is going to pop out of. So many of them are late round picks, that surface out of nowhere. Look at some of them that have backstopped cup winners recently - Matt Murray, Corey Crawford, Niemi a few years back.

There seems to be more goalies that have seen success that have been acquired for nothing, than there are elite guys with pedigree.

I stand by what I say. I'd much rather assemble a good team, with top picks, then add the goalie, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

- prock


There are goalies that can be spectacular and make a difference despite their team play. Price might be the one shining example that stands head and shoulders above everyone else.

Overall I think you are right. Do you not think that save percentage is the worst statistic in the NHL after plus/minus?

Save percentage counts all shots as equal. We know that a strong defence keeps forwards away from the net. A weak defence often has difficulty clearing the zone. 30 shots from the perimeter is not the same as 30 shots inside the triangle. The Leafs take a very good LA Kings back up and he struggles without a strong D in front of him. So the Leafs send the guy to Anaheim where his numbers this year are pretty good playing behind a solid D corps. The Leafs take the very solid Anaheim backup but his numbers are not so good behind the weaker Leaf D.

There are some goalies who are great with lots of action in front of them. Hasan was phenomenal, so was Cujo. Price does not seem to be bothered by players in his face. But lots of guys don't handle it very well.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Nov 14 @ 8:49 PM ET
Most goalies actually have a better SV% in games with 30+ shots than they do in games with less than 30. Shot suppression actually hurts your SV%. I saw a good article on it a while back. Goalies like Brodeur, Hasek, Roy, etc were barely above .900 in games with 30 or less shots but were .930+ in games with 30 or more.

I unfortunately can't find the article I'm talking about but this older article covers the same idea.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...r-with-high-shot-volumes/

It's an interesting read.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: tenav for drouin. lol @ canucks
Joined: 03.14.2014

Nov 14 @ 9:32 PM ET
I wouldn't have taken Logan Brown if I were the Sens but why not talk about Chychrun.
- systemtool


I think brown was the right pick for the sens even though chychrun will be the better player.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: every day, once a day, give yourself a present, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Nov 14 @ 9:43 PM ET
I think brown was the right pick for the sens even though chychrun will be the better player.
- Tumbleweed

Id like to think that after 15 games or less both have peaked
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Nov 15 @ 5:48 AM ET
Id like to think that after 15 games or less both have peaked
- daeth


Just crazy for people talking about slumping Matthews. He is just a kid. Give him a break. This kind of reporting from the most recent Leaf thread is not really helpful.

"After scoring four goals in his NHL debut and 10 points in his first six games, Auston Matthews has gone goalless and registered only two assists in the last nine games."
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Nov 15 @ 7:48 AM ET
Most goalies actually have a better SV% in games with 30+ shots than they do in games with less than 30. Shot suppression actually hurts your SV%. I saw a good article on it a while back. Goalies like Brodeur, Hasek, Roy, etc were barely above .900 in games with 30 or less shots but were .930+ in games with 30 or more.

I unfortunately can't find the article I'm talking about but this older article covers the same idea.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...r-with-high-shot-volumes/

It's an interesting read.

- daeth

Probably has a bit to do with the attacking team's strategy. Are they waiting for high percentage shots, or just getting everything to the net.

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