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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 18 @ 3:10 PM ET
Have you heard anything of this before?
- prock


No this is the first that I have seen it reported. But on something like this it would be multiple sourced. Feschuk and the Star would not put that out if they did not think it was 100% verifiable. It is over two weeks and there are no denials coming from MLSE. It suggests to me that one of the players will be moved and it does not hurt Burke's plans for this to be floating out there.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 18 @ 3:13 PM ET
I have always been in favor of drafting instead of trading picks, tank a few seasons..whatever... I just wish it started 3 years ago..but whatever start now
- senstroll


Well I was advocating the comprehensive approach three years ago. Hell when Burke came in he was advocating your approach. So did JFJ. We just need someone to do it.
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Apr 18 @ 3:25 PM ET
Feschuk and the Star would not put that out if they did not think it was 100% verifiable.
- spatso

yes a newspaper would never print something false, or aim to sell newspapers
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 18 @ 3:46 PM ET
No this is the first that I have seen it reported. But on something like this it would be multiple sourced. Feschuk and the Star would not put that out if they did not think it was 100% verifiable. It is over two weeks and there are no denials coming from MLSE. It suggests to me that one of the players will be moved and it does not hurt Burke's plans for this to be floating out there.
- spatso


I actually have no interest in what you think. Wasn't asking you.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 18 @ 4:14 PM ET
I actually have no interest in what you think. Wasn't asking you.
- prock


That is fine with me sweetheart. You can hold your breathe and stamp your feet until you finally get over your hurt feelings.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 18 @ 11:49 PM ET
Funny. I've never heard this.
- prock


http://forum.calgarypuck....om/showthread.php?t=86508
After practice two weeks ago, phaneuf comes into the locker room breaking sticks, swearing, throwing garbage cans and basically throwing a hissy fit. Jarome tells everyone to get out of the room and that “this is between me and him, everyone leave”

He then proceeds to put him in his place, after which a fight ensued.... a week later phaneuf is traded. Iginla fought phaneuf for being such a wiener!!!
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 19 @ 8:26 AM ET
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=86508
After practice two weeks ago, phaneuf comes into the locker room breaking sticks, swearing, throwing garbage cans and basically throwing a hissy fit. Jarome tells everyone to get out of the room and that “this is between me and him, everyone leave”

He then proceeds to put him in his place, after which a fight ensued.... a week later phaneuf is traded. Iginla fought phaneuf for being such a wiener!!!

- Doppleganger


So that is a 4th hand telling of a story from random person on the internet...

most of the Calgary fans responding seem skeptical...

But I 100% believe its true
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 19 @ 9:18 AM ET
So that is a 4th hand telling of a story from random person on the internet...

most of the Calgary fans responding seem skeptical...

But I 100% believe its true

- senstroll


I have no idea how its at all relevant to comments on there being issues between Schenn and Phaneuf anyway. I don't know why he posted it.
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Apr 19 @ 9:29 AM ET
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=86508
After practice two weeks ago, phaneuf comes into the locker room breaking sticks, swearing, throwing garbage cans and basically throwing a hissy fit. Jarome tells everyone to get out of the room and that “this is between me and him, everyone leave”

He then proceeds to put him in his place, after which a fight ensued.... a week later phaneuf is traded. Iginla fought phaneuf for being such a wiener!!!

- Doppleganger

someone probably left "break stuff" by limp bizkit on the radio. It was bound to happen
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 21 @ 5:11 PM ET

There are too many similarities for my liking to the sens... My head right now says I would rather go another season and get another top 5 pick rather than finish 8th and exit quietly... but I can see how it would feel good if the leafs mirrored the sens in that regard also...I will stick to my original mindset that it would have been better for the sens to get another lottery pick in the cupboards for the future instead...

- senstroll



So you've changed your tune now, or is the wind just blowing a different way today?

I just know as a leafs fan i would rather

1. be in the playoffs right now than not
2. have their own draft picks and not kessel
3. be in the playoffs...fcuk me its been 6 years

- senstroll

senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 21 @ 8:21 PM ET
So you've changed your tune now, or is the wind just blowing a different way today?
- Doppleganger


I wish the leafs were in the playoffs... That will not change.. but realistically there is too many pieces missing..oh and we collapsed and have a 5th pick

The original comment was almost a year ago... the leafs outlook has changes a lot in that time, but of course I want to see playoffs, but patching up the team and squeaking in, or tear down an rebuild... My head says the rebuild is the better thing long term

Edit: I went back and read more... that comment was from 2010... the discussion was about the sens making the playoffs (you said they locked up 5th in the conference)... lol you take comments almost 2 years apart, and try to patch them together to look smrt. they are totally out of context... is that how you spend your spare time? please tell me thats not your life
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 21 @ 11:07 PM ET
I wish the leafs were in the playoffs... That will not change.. but realistically there is too many pieces missing..oh and we collapsed and have a 5th pick

The original comment was almost a year ago... the leafs outlook has changes a lot in that time, but of course I want to see playoffs, but patching up the team and squeaking in, or tear down an rebuild... My head says the rebuild is the better thing long term

Edit: I went back and read more... that comment was from 2010... the discussion was about the sens making the playoffs (you said they locked up 5th in the conference)... lol you take comments almost 2 years apart, and try to patch them together to look smrt. they are totally out of context... is that how you spend your spare time? please tell me thats not your life

- senstroll


Which is worse, me reviewing previous opinions, or you going back and verifying them?

spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 22 @ 6:08 AM ET
Which is worse, me reviewing previous opinions, or you going back and verifying them?
- Doppleganger


Hockey is always about the scoreboard. The past is the past. What matters is measured on the actual game results and standings. Yet hockey is also cyclical. So, a team with poor results can mitigate the apparent damage by looking to the immediate future in terms of the draft and rebuilding their team. What is truly painful is when a team fails on the scoreboard and coincidentially fails to take advantage of the opportunity to grow their team.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 22 @ 11:26 AM ET
Which is worse, me reviewing previous opinions, or you going back and verifying them?
- Doppleganger


100% you
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 25 @ 10:09 AM ET
Hockey is always about the scoreboard. The past is the past. What matters is measured on the actual game results and standings. Yet hockey is also cyclical. So, a team with poor results can mitigate the apparent damage by looking to the immediate future in terms of the draft and rebuilding their team. What is truly painful is when a team fails on the scoreboard and coincidentially fails to take advantage of the opportunity to grow their team.
- spatso


When Bryan Murray finished coaching the the 2007/08 season, he knew he had to do better when selecting a head coach for the next season.

When it became apparent that Craig Hartsburg was not working out he was not afraid to elevate Cory Clouston to take over the NHL team.

Then when it again became apparent that he (Clouston) was not going to be part of the three year re-build he brought in Paul MacLean.

Some people have criticized Murray for misfiring when it came to finally finding someone to coach the Senators, after he finished coaching the 2007/08 season.

Over the same period of time the leafs stuck with the same head coach all the while the fans and the media were suggesting that he should be shown the door.

Burke received his fair share of criticism for sticking with the same coach year after year hoping things would turn around and vindicate his support for Wilson.

Ottawa seems to have found the right coach for the Senators But the same can't be said yet for the leafs, until Randy Carlyle has ran his own training camp and put in at least one full season.

At the end of the day there is something to be said for Murray admitting his mistakes by either stepping back behind the bench, firing a coach and elevating the AHL coach to the parent club and eventually letting him go before hiring a Coach that has produced results on the scoreboard, which as you've already said it's"about the scoreboard" and "The past is the past. What matters is measured on the actual game results and standings".

So for now, win or lose game seven tomorrow, the Senators are on the right track, in their first year of a three year rebuild. Perhaps the leafs have taken a step in the right direction with the sacking of Wilson, but we'll have to see for sure, in a year from now.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 25 @ 10:37 AM ET
When Bryan Murray finished coaching the the 2007/08 season, he knew he had to do better when selecting a head coach for the next season.

When it became apparent that Craig Hartsburg was not working out he was not afraid to elevate Cory Clouston to take over the NHL team.

Then when it again became apparent that he (Clouston) was not going to be part of the three year re-build he brought in Paul MacLean.

Some people have criticized Murray for misfiring when it came to finally finding someone to coach the Senators, after he finished coaching the 2007/08 season.

Over the same period of time the leafs stuck with the same head coach all the while the fans and the media were suggesting that he should be shown the door.

Burke received his fair share of criticism for sticking with the same coach year after year hoping things would turn around and vindicate his support for Wilson.

Ottawa seems to have found the right coach for the Senators But the same can't be said yet for the leafs, until Randy Carlyle has ran his own training camp and put in at least one full season.

At the end of the day there is something to be said for Murray admitting his mistakes by either stepping back behind the bench, firing a coach and elevating the AHL coach to the parent club and eventually letting him go before hiring a Coach that has produced results on the scoreboard, which as you've already said it's"about the scoreboard" and "The past is the past. What matters is measured on the actual game results and standings".

So for now, win or lose game seven tomorrow, the Senators are on the right track, in their first year of a three year rebuild. Perhaps the leafs have taken a step in the right direction with the sacking of Wilson, but we'll have to see for sure, in a year from now.

- Doppleganger


Murray is 1/4 with coaches since he left... when you hit a HR, the 3 errors are forgotten.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 26 @ 10:04 AM ET
Murray is 1/4 with coaches since he left... when you hit a HR, the 3 errors are forgotten.
- senstroll



Hopefully after leaving leaving his starting pitcher in to long, before finally bringing in a reliever, Burke too can have his errors forgotten as well.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 26 @ 10:18 AM ET
Hopefully after leaving leaving his starting pitcher in to long, before finally bringing in a reliever, Burke too can have his errors forgotten as well.
- Doppleganger


that would be great... the quicker RW can be an afterthought the better... I hope Carlyle is the right person for this team... I am skeptical at the moment ..the leafs went 6-9 after he took over
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 26 @ 10:32 AM ET
that would be great... the quicker RW can be an afterthought the better... I hope Carlyle is the right person for this team... I am skeptical at the moment ..the leafs went 6-9 after he took over
- senstroll


He and Burke have to sit together and discuss the team make up and agree on the direction they want to follow, and then make necessary (if any) moves over the off-season and "move forward".

Depending on the path they decide to embark on, there will always be a segment of the media and the fan base that will question the decision(s) to trade/draft/sign players that are deemed to not be or will be part of the plan.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 19 @ 10:39 AM ET
That I get based on the expectations coming into this season... for the most part people would be disappointed with that if it were any other scenario.

The leafs could be in a similar situation next season, I doubt the expectations will be high at all (talk already about the #1 pick in 2013 in leafs threads).. They could get a good run from the Marlies for the young players to build from (like the Bingo sens).. We get a top 5 pick to add to the prospects (like zbad)...Hopefully next season Kadri, Colborne and Gardiner can start to look like regulars (Gardiner does already, but take the next step like a Karlsson).

There are too many similarities for my liking to the sens... My head right now says I would rather go another season and get another top 5 pick rather than finish 8th and exit quietly... but I can see how it would feel good if the leafs mirrored the sens in that regard also...I will stick to my original mindset that it would have been better for the sens to get another lottery pick in the cupboards for the future instead...

- senstroll


Yes this is from last April, but it does look the leafs are in a "similar situation" that the Sens found themselves in, holding down a playoff spot, and looking like they'll qualify.

And now the Sens find themselves slipping slowly out of the the playoff seeds, and may actually get a shot at a high draft pick.

You were right on when predicting a " good run from the Marlies" and they've moved some of those Calder Cup finalists up to the leafs for this season, and it seems for now that they are reaping those benefits that the Senators did after the Binghamton Senators won the Calder Cup.


Quite a few eerie similarities eh?
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 20 @ 9:39 AM ET
Yes this is from last April, but it does look the leafs are in a "similar situation" that the Sens found themselves in, holding down a playoff spot, and looking like they'll qualify.

And now the Sens find themselves slipping slowly out of the the playoff seeds, and may actually get a shot at a high draft pick.

You were right on when predicting a " good run from the Marlies" and they've moved some of those Calder Cup finalists up to the leafs for this season, and it seems for now that they are reaping those benefits that the Senators did after the Binghamton Senators won the Calder Cup.


Quite a few eerie similarities eh?

- Doppleganger


so far it does yes..

shorty we can revisit the 2009 draft, Leafs taking Kadri over Cowan, how Murray swindled Burke etc...

Alot of the positives so far for the leafs this season... Kadri, Frattin, JVR, the goalie tandem have decent numbers and being overall very solid.. Carlyle starting to make his mark on the team . All of those things except Frattin were Burkes moves
Also carlyle putting more toughness in the lineup (Orr, Fraser, Maclaren)
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jul 13 @ 12:03 PM ET
With the major additions and subtractions already completed, I would say the leafs and Sens are in the mix for fourth place in the Division.


A quick look at the two Divisions in the East, leads me to believe both wild-cards could come from the C Division.


muffin_man
Montreal Canadiens
Location: no problem, as s hole - Eric Engels, NY
Joined: 02.10.2007

Jul 13 @ 12:39 PM ET
With the major additions and subtractions already completed, I would say the leafs and Sens are in the mix for fourth place in the Division.


A quick look at the two Divisions in the East, leads me to believe both wild-cards could come from the C Division.

- Doppleganger

Prediction:
- BOS, DET, PIT, CAR, NYR are in (Carolina would have made it no problem if not for Ward's injury).
- MON, NYI, TOR, OTT, WAS, CBJ, PHI all have a shot.
- FLA, TB, NJD, BUF are out.

Should be a tight race.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jul 13 @ 4:34 PM ET
Prediction:
- BOS, DET, PIT, CAR, NYR are in (Carolina would have made it no problem if not for Ward's injury).
- MON, NYI, TOR, OTT, WAS, CBJ, PHI all have a shot.
- FLA, TB, NJD, BUF are out.

Should be a tight race.

- muffin_man


top three in each division get in, then the two wildcards (next two teams with most points within conference, and can come from same division


So Boston & Detroit are in same division and then Carolina, Pittsburgh & NYR same thing, so need to pick one more from C division, then two wildcards
muffin_man
Montreal Canadiens
Location: no problem, as s hole - Eric Engels, NY
Joined: 02.10.2007

Jul 13 @ 4:54 PM ET
top three in each division get in, then the two wildcards (next two teams with most points within conference, and can come from same division


So Boston & Detroit are in same division and then Carolina, Pittsburgh & NYR same thing, so need to pick one more from C division, then two wildcards

- Doppleganger

yea, thanks dopps. This is all 100% new information I could only get from DNN.

As you obviousy misunderstood, I picked 5 I feel are 100% in barring massive injuries, a few who will surely miss barring miracles, and the majority of the conference as bubble teams. The point I was making is that I feel the conference is wide open.

But yea, thanks for the news.
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