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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I genuinely think the IQ level is alot lower there than here, so I get to win more arguments. Walshy
Joined: 07.14.2011

Oct 5 @ 8:39 AM ET
The more I watch sports and the years go by, the more I am convinced that luck is a bigger factor than anything.
- Aetherial

Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 5 @ 8:56 AM ET
More like Tampa and Boston
- walshyleafsfan


One could argue that their most dominant players in their cup run (Thomas and Chara) were UFA pickups (or trades, I don't remember).
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 5 @ 9:03 AM ET
I'm just saying, building through the draft is probably the way to go, and I believe the Leafs are gonna see the benefits of that in the long run.


That said, it takes a special kind of players to fall in the category of the Hawks and Pens.

- Pecafan Fan


From what I've seen of Matthews, he seems to just keep getting better and better the more he plays vs NHL competition .......... so he might have the potential to approach a "special kind of player" status down the road.
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 771 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Oct 5 @ 9:20 AM ET
I agree 100%. I think Matthews has that special feel but it's too early to tell if it pans out in the NHL.
- systemtool

Matthews is a gamer i'd predict. Nylander too. Marner would be a bit of a question mark between those three IMO but he has the goods. So did Kyle Wellwood.

Some great pieces for sure now its about player development.
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 771 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Oct 5 @ 9:23 AM ET
One could argue that their most dominant players in their cup run (Thomas and Chara) were UFA pickups (or trades, I don't remember).
- Pecafan Fan

Both UFA pickups

Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand and Lucic were all picks

Peverley, Kelly, Boychuk and Recchi all came in VIA trade

a healthy mix

Also before Seguin, who they got via trade, they didn't pick very high in quite some time. All of those guys mentioned above are 2nd or third rounders.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Oct 5 @ 9:41 AM ET
The more I watch sports and the years go by, the more I am convinced that luck is a bigger factor than anything.
- Aetherial



Right now if you had to pick a stealth team that has quietly rebuilt and is sitting on a huge wealth of young talent ....it is Winnipeg. They have all the pieces.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 5 @ 9:55 AM ET
Right now if you had to pick a stealth team that has quietly rebuilt and is sitting on a huge wealth of young talent ....it is Winnipeg. They have all the pieces.
- spatso



The problem with winnipeg (and we are already seeing it) is that it will be difficult to keep players.

Small town substandard Canadian cities like Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Ottawa, are always going to have trouble, and overpay, for average talent. Combine that with frequently suspect budgets and they're fighting an uphill battle.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: tenav for drouin. lol @ canucks
Joined: 03.14.2014

Oct 5 @ 10:07 AM ET
The problem with winnipeg (and we are already seeing it) is that it will be difficult to keep players.

Small town substandard Canadian cities like Edmonton, Winnipeg, and Ottawa, are always going to have trouble, and overpay, for average talent. Combine that with frequently suspect budgets and they're fighting an uphill battle.

- prock


Plus Winnipeg's gm is junk.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 5 @ 10:31 AM ET
Plus Winnipeg's gm is junk.
- Tumbleweed



That too.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: he's 35, time to be fart the messenger boy.
Joined: 06.30.2006

Oct 5 @ 11:46 AM ET
Right now if you had to pick a stealth team that has quietly rebuilt and is sitting on a huge wealth of young talent ....it is Winnipeg. They have all the pieces.
- spatso


That isn't stealth. Anyone paying attention knows about Winnipeg.

walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I genuinely think the IQ level is alot lower there than here, so I get to win more arguments. Walshy
Joined: 07.14.2011

Oct 5 @ 11:48 AM ET
One could argue that their most dominant players in their cup run (Thomas and Chara) were UFA pickups (or trades, I don't remember).
- Pecafan Fan

We got told for years, they wouldn't have won a cup or beaten Tampa without Seguin. It all started with Jumbo Joe.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 5 @ 11:53 AM ET
We got told for years, they wouldn't have won a cup or beaten Tampa without Seguin. It all started with Jumbo Joe.
- walshyleafsfan



LOL. Yeah. "He scored that one key goal. See!!! it was the Kessel trade that pushed them over the top!!!!"

Ironically, you get the same idiots that argued trading Kessel away won the Bruins a cup, yet trading FOR him pushed the Pens over the top.



D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 5 @ 12:09 PM ET
LOL. Yeah. "He scored that one key goal. See!!! it was the Kessel trade that pushed them over the top!!!!"

Ironically, you get the same idiots that argued trading Kessel away won the Bruins a cup, yet trading FOR him pushed the Pens over the top.

- prock



By that logic, the leafs should win the Cup then ........... right?
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I genuinely think the IQ level is alot lower there than here, so I get to win more arguments. Walshy
Joined: 07.14.2011

Oct 5 @ 12:10 PM ET
LOL. Yeah. "He scored that one key goal. See!!! it was the Kessel trade that pushed them over the top!!!!"

Ironically, you get the same idiots that argued trading Kessel away won the Bruins a cup, yet trading FOR him pushed the Pens over the top.

- prock

It's confusing. Sometimes i think they are tricking me. Maybe it wasn't all Seguin and Kaberle?

Maybe Chara, Bergeron, Horton, Kreijci, Lucic and Thomas all played a part?

I just don't know who to believe anymore.
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I genuinely think the IQ level is alot lower there than here, so I get to win more arguments. Walshy
Joined: 07.14.2011

Oct 5 @ 12:11 PM ET
By that logic, the leafs should win the Cup then ........... right?
- D0PPELGANGER

Yeah, if that logic was, you know, logical.
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 771 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Oct 5 @ 12:12 PM ET
LOL. Yeah. "He scored that one key goal. See!!! it was the Kessel trade that pushed them over the top!!!!"

Ironically, you get the same idiots that argued trading Kessel away won the Bruins a cup, yet trading FOR him pushed the Pens over the top.

- prock



Well to be honest, trading Kessel opened up a spot for a new top line RW which Horton claimed a year later in the Wideman trade. Horton was a much better fit for the Bruins at the time and it showed in the types of goals he scored in the playoffs, around the net.

Bruins didn't really have a speedy center to play with Phil, more cycle players and counter punching type of offense. This was doubly true when Savard got injured.

It's impossible to say if the Bruins win that cup with Kessel in lieu of Horton therefore its a pointless discussion. What is possible to say is that the Bruins won without Phil.

Kessel was great for the Pens in the playoffs. That line really caught lightning in a bottle. Going to be interesting to see what teams do to adjust to them this season if they remain together.
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 771 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Oct 5 @ 12:13 PM ET
It's confusing. Sometimes i think they are tricking me. Maybe it wasn't all Seguin and Kaberle?

Maybe Chara, Bergeron, Horton, Kreijci, Lucic and Thomas all played a part?

I just don't know who to believe anymore.

- walshyleafsfan

So close.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 5 @ 12:16 PM ET
Well to be honest, trading Kessel opened up a spot for a new top line RW which Horton claimed a year later in the Wideman trade. Horton was a much better fit for the Bruins at the time and it showed in the types of goals he scored in the playoffs, around the net.

Bruins didn't really have a speedy center to play with Phil, more cycle players and counter punching type of offense. This was doubly true when Savard got injured.

It's impossible to say if the Bruins win that cup with Kessel in lieu of Horton therefore its a pointless discussion. What is possible to say is that the Bruins won without Phil.

Kessel was great for the Pens in the playoffs. That line really caught lightning in a bottle. Going to be interesting to see what teams do to adjust to them this season if they remain together.

- Cape Breton Bruins


Regardless, it would be the acquisition of Horton, not trading of Kessel, that you'd point to.

In reality, you can never point to a single trade or acquisition that led to winning a cup.

Some contribute more than others. The drafting of Bergeron was probably a bigger factor than Nathan Horton. And the picking up of Chara in UFA when his former team decided he wasn't worth signing instead of Wade Redden was even bigger than that. If you're going to point to a bonehead move by another team contributing, surely Chara is the first one you look at, no?

None of these things happen in isolation of each other.
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 771 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Oct 5 @ 12:22 PM ET
Regardless, it would be the acquisition of Horton, not trading of Kessel, that you'd point to.

In reality, you can never point to a single trade or acquisition that led to winning a cup.

Some contribute more than others. The drafting of Bergeron was probably a bigger factor than Nathan Horton. And the picking up of Chara in UFA when his former team decided he wasn't worth signing instead of Wade Redden was even bigger than that.

- prock

If you look at all of the cup winners, maybe since the 2005 lockout, the Bruins were probably the biggest mixed bag of assets as I mentioned before.

And now, five plus years later the removal of Wideman, who was terrible in Boston and the addition of Horton was indeed a bigger factor than the Kessel trade IMO. Seguin barely drew a regular shift in the playoffs when the team was healthy and it was Marchand who stepped up his game when Horton was injured in the final.

It was a team effort lead by Thomas who was unbelievable through all four rounds of the playoffs. Without him there is no way they overcome two different 2-0 deficits nor do they become the first team in history to win three game sevens in the same playoff season.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 5 @ 12:32 PM ET
If you look at all of the cup winners, maybe since the 2005 lockout, the Bruins were probably the biggest mixed bag of assets as I mentioned before.

And now, five plus years later the removal of Wideman, who was terrible in Boston and the addition of Horton was indeed a bigger factor than the Kessel trade IMO. Seguin barely drew a regular shift in the playoffs when the team was healthy and it was Marchand who stepped up his game when Horton was injured in the final.

It was a team effort lead by Thomas who was unbelievable through all four rounds of the playoffs. Without him there is no way they overcome two different 2-0 deficits nor do they become the first team in history to win three game sevens in the same playoff season.

- Cape Breton Bruins


Yup, didn't mean to ignore that Tim Thomas.

but damn, you must love that Chara signing. Got him for free. didn't even have to send any assets to some other team to get him. It would suck to be the team that let him walk him for nothing.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 5 @ 12:34 PM ET
Yup, didn't mean to ignore that Tim Thomas.

but damn, you must love that Chara signing. Got him for free. didn't even have to send any assets to some other team to get him. It would suck to be the team that let him walk him for nothing.

- prock

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 5 @ 12:39 PM ET

- Pecafan Fan



Just sayin.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 5 @ 12:40 PM ET
Regardless, it would be the acquisition of Horton, not trading of Kessel, that you'd point to.

In reality, you can never point to a single trade or acquisition that led to winning a cup.

Some contribute more than others. The drafting of Bergeron was probably a bigger factor than Nathan Horton. And the picking up of Chara in UFA when his former team decided he wasn't worth signing instead of Wade Redden was even bigger than that. If you're going to point to a bonehead move by another team contributing, surely Chara is the first one you look at, no?

None of these things happen in isolation of each other.

- prock




There you go again, perpetuating another myth about why Chara decided, on his own accord, to pursue free agency.


He made demands that the Senators were not going to accept. They offered him the same money and term as they did to Redden, who at the time, outplayed him in their most recent playoff run.

Chara, at age 29, demanded the Ottawa Captaincy be taken away from Alfredsson, and given to him as part of any signing ............. he did so, knowing they would never do so, and at one second after Midnight, the instant he became an UFA, he became a Bruin .......... he clearly negotiated himself out of Ottawa for a Captaincy in Boston........... and yes, more money and term than Ottawa offered ............ but I thought leaf fans did not like long term/high cap hit contracts, especially from older players .............. like Phaneauf's contract ??????? Are you trying to have it both ways here?



Joined: 12.31.1969

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Joined: 12.31.1969

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