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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Apr 10 @ 4:48 PM ET
I would suggest that the AHL teams are a reflection on who may have a better group of prospects (at all positions) if you are comparing the two teams in Ontario.
- prock

Still on about this ,i think you have learned what i have watching a lot of hockey .You cant predict anything with hockey there are just way to many variables
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 4:50 PM ET
Still on about this ,i think you have learned what i have watching a lot of hockey .You cant predict anything with hockey there are just way to many variables
- top shelf 15



How are the Binghamton Senators doing????
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Apr 10 @ 4:52 PM ET
How are the Binghamton Senators doing????
- prock

Crappy ,but i still think lehner is a grade A goaltending prospect.And we might still have some servicable guys come out of there
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 4:54 PM ET
Crappy ,but i still think lehner is a grade A goaltending prospect.And we might still have some servicable guys come out of there
- top shelf 15


I would suggest that the Marlies team is a reflection on who may have a better group of prospects (at all positions) if you are comparing the two teams in Ontario.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Apr 10 @ 4:57 PM ET
I would suggest that the Marlies team is a reflection on who may have a better group of prospects (at all positions) if you are comparing the two teams in Ontario.
- prock

At the ahl level it does appear that this is a correct statement
mfreedman
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Thornhill, ON
Joined: 10.04.2010

Apr 10 @ 5:01 PM ET
Agreed ,Rundblad is a heck of a prospect.But i like KT he has shown some really great promise at the nhl level.Basically we traded a raw prospect for a more developed one
- top shelf 15


Agreed, but my point was more that if DR was a Sen, do you think Dopple would be as critical of him? Doubt it.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 5:01 PM ET
At the ahl level it does appear that this is a correct statement
- top shelf 15



Hummmmmmmmmm Leafs AHL club (lots of prospects) playing in the Calder Cup playoffs, Sens AHL team finished last in the conference, did not make the playoffs.............now I wonder how illogical it is to think that perhaps the prospect pool for the Leafs is just a little deeper than the Sens prospect pool.

Perhaps if they had retained those prospects and picks they traded to the Yotes..........................
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Apr 10 @ 5:04 PM ET
Hummmmmmmmmm Leafs AHL club (lots of prospects) playing in the Calder Cup playoffs, Sens AHL team finished last in the conference, did not make the playoffs.............now I wonder how illogical it is to think that perhaps the prospect pool for the Leafs is just a little deeper than the Sens prospect pool.

Perhaps if they had retained those prospects and picks they traded to the Yotes..........................

- prock

You got me i surrender
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 5:04 PM ET
You got me i surrender
- top shelf 15



Just goes to show how stupid the poster that originally wrote all that crap can be.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Apr 10 @ 5:16 PM ET
Agreed, but my point was more that if DR was a Sen, do you think Dopple would be as critical of him? Doubt it.
- mfreedman
I think his comments where more of a reaction to the slagging that KT has taken ,they are both young players still trying to find their way .KT is a bit more developed and has shown tons of upside but people only see the wasted years in pho
Lahey
Edmonton Oilers
Location: del's basement chilling with S, AB
Joined: 03.07.2011

Apr 10 @ 5:28 PM ET
Hummmmmmmmmm Leafs AHL club (lots of prospects) playing in the Calder Cup playoffs, Sens AHL team finished last in the conference, did not make the playoffs.............now I wonder how illogical it is to think that perhaps the prospect pool for the Leafs is just a little deeper than the Sens prospect pool.

Perhaps if they had retained those prospects and picks they traded to the Yotes..........................

- prock

The question is are the prospects that reason the club is doing well or is it the vets that have no NHL future? Oilers are in the same boat, but a good chunk of the success has been the vets that ST has acquired for OKC.
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Apr 10 @ 5:51 PM ET
Just goes to show how stupid the poster that originally wrote all that crap can be.
- prock


"Miles and miles" of crap?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 10 @ 6:13 PM ET
The question is are the prospects that reason the club is doing well or is it the vets that have no NHL future? Oilers are in the same boat, but a good chunk of the success has been the vets that ST has acquired for OKC.
- Lahey


How are the Binghamton Sens doingV????
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Apr 10 @ 6:25 PM ET
How are the Binghamton Sens doingV????
- prock


Funny you should ask... on April 3, 2009 you said: "____" and then on June 15, 2006 you stated: "______" and when you were a kid you said something to someone which clearly implied that you thought maybe your team would be in the playoffs, which they were at the time, but not since the lockout and then you posted... bah. Bingo has been trashed so we can win the cup this year and come home as heroes. Duh.
jsr1034
New York Islanders
Location: Doo wacko!, NY
Joined: 06.19.2007

Apr 10 @ 7:10 PM ET
I actually don't think they trade him.

It's funny, after all the chirping from Sens fans about the Leafs not truly rebuilding, there's a good chance the pickup of Anderson, and keeping Alfredsson, may actually keep them in the 5th to 7th pick range, essentially avoiding ever picking any truly elite players, as a couple of their younger guys pitch in a little more just as Alfredsson retires. It could hurt them in the long run, big time.

- prock

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 11 @ 9:29 AM ET
Agreed, but my point was more that if DR was a Sen, do you think Dopple would be as critical of him? Doubt it.
- mfreedman



If Karlsson was a leaf, would you be so critical of him?
Doubt it.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 11 @ 9:37 AM ET
The Sens are a basement team, and don't stand a hope in hell in even making the playoffs. They've got what is quite possibly the worst roster in the league.
- prock



And still they made the playoffs in the first year of a three year re-build.

Does the leafs open letter buy Burke a little more time to work his "magic"?


here's some more gems of wisdom and insight




It's funny, after all the chirping from Sens fans about the Leafs not truly rebuilding, there's a good chance the pickup of Anderson, and keeping Alfredsson, may actually keep them in the 5th to 7th pick range, essentially avoiding ever picking any truly elite players, as a couple of their younger guys pitch in a little more just as Alfredsson retires. It could hurt them in the long run, big time.

- prock



According to Sens fans, yes it is. According to the NHL, not so much.


I guess that will end up being the case with the Sens finishing ahead of the Leafs next year as well..... Maybe according to Sens fans, but according to the standings and stats the NHL publishes, not so much.

- prock



But.... you think they'll pass the Leafs in a year anyway?

You seem to have serious issues with being completely disconnected from reality.

- prock



Here's some great ones BASHING Rundblad when he was still a Senator, and as everyone will know you've completly FLIP FLOPPED now that he was traded..........and he's the GREATEST prospect ever.


And st louis didn't because they saw holes in his game and he couldn't make the Blues.
- prock


And they deemed Rundblad expendable. They saw holes in his game.
- prock



on a similar train of thought, a team like st. Louis, who is very shrewd with their youth, and already short of d prospects, must have seen some serious flaws in Rundblad to dump him like that, when they really do need more d prospects. I can assume that to dump a prospect in a position of need for them, they must have saw some pretty horrible things. If a starving man throws away an apple, that apple is probably rotten.
- prock

.
mfreedman
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Thornhill, ON
Joined: 10.04.2010

Apr 11 @ 9:58 AM ET
If Karlsson was a leaf, would you be so critical of him?
Doubt it.

- Doppleganger


I'm not critical of him. I have personally said I like him.

Please remember who you are discussing with.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Apr 11 @ 10:02 AM ET
I'm not critical of him. I have personally said I like him.

Please remember who you are discussing with.

- mfreedman

Nope. It's all unnamed opposition. Rivals that are jealous of the Sens success.
mfreedman
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Thornhill, ON
Joined: 10.04.2010

Apr 11 @ 10:07 AM ET
Nope. It's all unnamed opposition. Rivals that are jealous of the Sens success.
- Morris


Must be, I've stopped arguing with Spats for that reason. Hes useless. I still working with Dopps as of now, he at least on occasion has solid points.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 11 @ 10:16 AM ET
Must be, I've stopped arguing with Spats for that reason. Hes useless. I still working with Dopps as of now, he at least on occasion has solid points.
- mfreedman



I've had my disagreements with Spatso as well. He tends to ignore the "elephant in the room" when making suggestions for trades.

But I do see that notwithstanding that he does not take NTCs into consideration sometimes, he does have an objective POV of other teams, and does not see the need to flame them to make his team seem better than it is.
mfreedman
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Thornhill, ON
Joined: 10.04.2010

Apr 11 @ 11:28 AM ET
I've had my disagreements with Spatso as well. He tends to ignore the "elephant in the room" when making suggestions for trades.

But I do see that notwithstanding that he does not take NTCs into consideration sometimes, he does have an objective POV of other teams, and does not see the need to flame them to make his team seem better than it is.

- Doppleganger


I could probably find about 10 examples this week of him doing exactly this.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 11 @ 11:42 AM ET
I could probably find about 10 examples this week of him doing exactly this.
- mfreedman


That's actually pretty much all he does. Just in a passive aggressive manner.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 17 @ 11:18 AM ET
An excellent rebuttal to someone who seems to think that a team must finish in the bottom five for three or four seasons in a row to "have a chance" at winning the lottery and moving up, and selecting good young prospects, and then wait for a few more seasons while they all develop, and then make the playoffs, get some experience and then take a run at winning the cup.

What kinda timeline is that? Tank for three or four years, develop for a few more and then start to contend for the playoffs BEFORE seriously competing for the Cup??

That's the better part of a decade.

Need I remind you that last season, prior to the the trading deadline, the Owner and the GM sat down and decided on a "three year re-building program".

It was March 6th 2011 that the Ottawa Senators were 30th overall in the NHL with seven games to go before the end of the season. Today, in the first year of the re-build the Senators are back in the playoffs, and are competitive in their series with the Rangers.

Both game two and last nights game were decided by a "lucky bounce" that provided a scoring chance that was capitalized on. Both games could have gone either way.

Gotta love watching the team you support in the playoffs!!!

- Doppleganger[/img]


The sens finished 8th and are down 2-1 in the first round of the playoffs... I get its an accomplishment, but one to really be boasting about? Let them accomplish something decent first.

The Sens need to build off this year to actually have accomplished something, it is entirely possible to take a step back if next season the sens do not get great seasons from Spezza, Karlsson and Anderson.. Factor in Alfy is older, Gonchar, Phillips, Kuba.. young players will step in, but they also need to learn.

You dont have to go far back (post lockout) to find a list of teams that finished low and got to the finals and/or won within 5 years.

Pittsburg 29th in 2006 - Cup in 2009
Boston 26th in 2006 - cup in 2011
Boston 23rd in 2007 - cup in 2011
Philly 30th in 2007 - cup finals in 2010
Chicago 26th in 2007 - Cup in 2010

All these teams had some pieces in place already and added Elite high end picks to the mix. I want the leafs to do that as well yes, I think it help long term.. Add to that a core of players you already have, in Torontos case. Phanuef, Kessel, Gardiner, Lupul etc.. A couple top 5 picks will help the team be successful for many more seasons than just one.

How far off is Ottawa from Seriously competing for the cup? 2? 3? 5? They have a lot of veteran players to replace first...
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Apr 17 @ 1:01 PM ET
How far off is Ottawa from Seriously competing for the cup? 2? 3? 5? They have a lot of veteran players to replace first...
- senstroll


I think this may well be my favourite senstroll post - excellent points, strong logic. My only rebuttal is to point to the many teams who have bottomed out and just STAYED at the bottom. How many years for Florida? Atlanta (RIP)? Islanders? There's just no promise that sucking ass for half a decade will land you on Lord Stanley's Silver Spitoon...

I'm happy to see the team where they are because of the surprising contributions from our FUTURE core, and the swan song from our beloved captain. We could drop this series in 5 and I wouldn't be disappointed...
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