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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 20 @ 11:13 AM ET
Its a small mind trying to sound intelligent while standing on a soapbox.
- Feeling Glucky?



Nah, it's more the blind koolaid drinking cheerleader aspect.

"WE ADDED PHANEUF, AND NOW DERICK BRASSARD, THIS SURELY MAKES US THE BEST CANADIAN TEAM, AND WE WILL BE IN THE PLAYOFFS".

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 20 @ 11:20 AM ET
Nah, it's more the blind koolaid drinking cheerleader aspect.

"WE ADDED PHANEUF, AND NOW DERICK BRASSARD, THIS SURELY MAKES US THE BEST CANADIAN TEAM, AND WE WILL BE IN THE PLAYOFFS".

- prock

I like how he will use injuries to excuse his team's terrible performance, but thinks that Ottawa is better than Montreal, despite them missing Price for a good chunk of the season.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 20 @ 11:23 AM ET
Nah, it's more the blind koolaid drinking cheerleader aspect.

"WE ADDED PHANEUF, AND NOW DERICK BRASSARD, THIS SURELY MAKES US THE BEST CANADIAN TEAM, AND WE WILL BE IN THE PLAYOFFS".

- prock


Well let's see. This is a scoreboard issue and Leaf fans tend to avoid talking the reality of standings during the blue and white summer festivas. Reality is that the standings do suggest that the Sens were, in fact, the best Canadian team.

I know you don't like to be restrained by the hard reality of numbers...but, they do actually happen.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 20 @ 11:26 AM ET
I like how he will use injuries to excuse his team's terrible performance, but thinks that Ottawa is better than Montreal, despite them missing Price for a good chunk of the season.
- Feeling Glucky?


Not at all. Price would have made a huge difference to the final outcome.

Have no idea what part of the numbers are so hard for you to digest. I had a faculty adviser and he said to me at the very first meeting I had with him that "marks matter." He ended every meeting I ever had with exactly the same comment. It is important to remember marks matter.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jul 20 @ 11:32 AM ET
Not at all. Price would have made a huge difference to the final outcome.

Have no idea what part of the numbers are so hard for you to digest. I had a faculty adviser and he said to me at the very first meeting I had with him that "marks matter." He ended every meeting I ever had with exactly the same comment. It is important to remember marks matter.

- spatso



they matter to you when they support your narrative...otherwise you ignore the post with valid opposing info
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 20 @ 11:57 AM ET
Meh its July, every team thinks they have all the answers.I like the move and think we have a decent team .It should be in the mix come playoff time ,after that we will see
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jul 20 @ 12:15 PM ET
Meh its July, every team thinks they have all the answers.I like the move and think we have a decent team .It should be in the mix come playoff time ,after that we will see
- top shelf 15


So you are saying Brassard is a "win now" or "should be in the mix" move

top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 20 @ 12:24 PM ET
So you are saying Brassard is a "win now" or "should be in the mix" move
- senstroll
Dorion isnt lying when he said he expects the team to win now ,but he stopped short of calling them the beast of the east .I would expect this team to at least compete with some of the bigger fish in the pond ,but a contender ??I dont think anybody believes this .

Like i have said all along ,we have a decent team with some room to grow .We havent committed to anything more than that ,we are willing to gamble 2nd rounders and 2nd line centers.But arent willing to gamble with 1st rounders and 1st line talent,so it is what it is
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jul 20 @ 12:28 PM ET
I know the sens dont care about the Future since they are Win now people... but

http://www.pensionplanpup...ted-nhl-prospects-ranking

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 20 @ 12:32 PM ET
Meh its July, every team thinks they have all the answers.I like the move and think we have a decent team .It should be in the mix come playoff time ,after that we will see
- top shelf 15

I don't think the Leafs have an answer for this season... they're probably going to be very bad.

The Sens will be less bad, but still just as bad as they were.

I think over the course of the next 5-10 years, the Leafs will be far superior to the Sens, who will likely still be muddling around where they are and have been, or worse.

July, September, December... that won't likely change.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 20 @ 12:35 PM ET
[quote=top shelf 15
Like i have said all along ,we have a decent team with some room to grow .We havent committed to anything more than that ,we are willing to gamble 2nd rounders and 2nd line centers.But arent willing to gamble with 1st rounders and 1st line talent,so it is what it is

Except that most people see Brassard as a lateral move for Zibanejad (or at least, close to. MAYBE a minor improvement, in my opinion), in terms of on-ice performance short term, and less room for growth long term.

And that's not even considering the second round pick. The Sens prospect pool is not very good, they need those picks.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 20 @ 1:02 PM ET
Except that most people see Brassard as a lateral move for Zibanejad (or at least, close to. MAYBE a minor improvement, in my opinion), in terms of on-ice performance short term, and less room for growth long term.

And that's not even considering the second round pick. The Sens prospect pool is not very good, they need those picks.

- prock
Its not top 10 as it shouldnt be ,we havent finished in the basement .We have 3 very good prospects,with about 3 more real solid ones. And will have drafted 2 more before, that 2nd rounders name is even mentioned
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 20 @ 1:03 PM ET
I don't think the Leafs have an answer for this season... they're probably going to be very bad.

The Sens will be less bad, but still just as bad as they were.

I think over the course of the next 5-10 years, the Leafs will be far superior to the Sens, who will likely still be muddling around where they are and have been, or worse.

July, September, December... that won't likely change
.

- Feeling Glucky?
The problem with saying that ,is you sound like every other leaf fan.For the last 50 years
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 20 @ 1:09 PM ET
The problem with saying that ,is you sound like every other leaf fan.For the last 50 years

- top shelf 15



I think you'll find if you talk to fans of most other teams, they'll say the same.

And besides, 50 years? the Leafs had some very good stretches, prior to this decade of failure, stretches that they regularly handed the Sens a nice dose of humiliation.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 20 @ 1:31 PM ET
I think you'll find if you talk to fans of most other teams, they'll say the same.

And besides, 50 years? the Leafs had some very good stretches, prior to this decade of failure, stretches that they regularly handed the Sens a nice dose of humiliation.

- prock
Yeah i also remember us with the exact same problem we had then as we do now .What was the salary for your team in the last meeting again by comparision??
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 20 @ 1:50 PM ET
Yeah i also remember us with the exact same problem we had then as we do now .What was the salary for your team in the last meeting again by comparision??
- top shelf 15

I don't think the Leafs were actually huge spenders pre-cap... we had our own Melnyks back then, who, when Gretzky was down to sign with the team, decided they were "good enough" without him.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 20 @ 1:59 PM ET
I don't think the Leafs were actually huge spenders pre-cap... we had our own Melnyks back then, who, when Gretzky was down to sign with the team, decided they were "good enough" without him.
- Feeling Glucky?
Might want to look again ,i said during those for playoff wins against us .You could have built 2 and half senator teams with the money you sent vrs us
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:02 PM ET
I don't think the Leafs were actually huge spenders pre-cap... we had our own Melnyks back then, who, when Gretzky was down to sign with the team, decided they were "good enough" without him.
- Feeling Glucky?



they were, just not as much as they could have been. If I recall, they hovered around 3rd or 4th in the league. Rangers were typically number one. New Jersey had some years at the very top, so did Dallas.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:04 PM ET
Might want to look again ,i said during those for playoff wins against us .You could have built 2 and half senator teams with the money you sent vrs us

- top shelf 15



Nope, not by that time. in the very early years, when the Sens were setting records for losing, yes.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 20 @ 2:18 PM ET
Nope, not by that time. in the very early years, when the Sens were setting records for losing, yes.
- prock

Yeah the 28 mil we spent versus the 77 mil or so you spent had nothing to do with anything
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:30 PM ET
Yeah the 28 mil we spent versus the 77 mil or so you spent had nothing to do with anything
- top shelf 15



the Leafs salary was just under $75M the year before the lockout, and that's including the full salary of their deadline pickups, like Leetch ($6.6M). It wasn't actually that high, the actual amount paid out was quite lower. Anyway, $70M, let's say, and that's being generous.

The Sens were WAY over $28M by then. Almost twice that. About $50M.

Discrepancy, sure. What you're suggesting? Nope.

Mats Sundin 32 $9,000,000
Ed Belfour 38 $7,000,000
Brian Leetch 35 $6,600,000
Owen Nolan 31 $6,500,000
Alexander Mogilny 34 $5,500,000
Ron Francis 40 $4,453,738
Gary Roberts 37 $4,250,000
Bryan McCabe 28 $3,500,000
Robert Reichel 32 $3,250,000
Tomas Kaberle 25 $2,750,000
Mikael Renberg 31 $2,200,000
Joe Nieuwendyk 37 $2,000,000
Tie Domi 34 $2,000,000
Bryan Marchment 34 $2,000,000
Darcy Tucker 28 $1,600,000
Ken Klee 32 $1,500,000
Aki Berg 26 $1,400,000
Matt Stajan 20 $950,000
Nik Antropov 23 $925,000
Tom Fitzgerald 35 $900,000
Wade Belak 27 $850,000
Chad Kilger 27 $800,000
Mikael Tellqvist 24 $700,000
Trevor Kidd 31 $650,000
Richard Jackman 25 $585,640
Clarke Wilm 27 $575,000
Alexei Ponikarovsky 23 $522,500
Craig Johnson 31 $500,000
Karel Pilar 26 $450,000
Drake Berehowsky 31 $450,000
Nathan Perrott 27 $400,000
$74,761,878

Daniel Alfredsson 31 $5,050,000
Wade Redden 26 $4,500,000
Peter Bondra 35 $4,500,000
Greg De Vries 30 $4,200,000
Radek Bonk 27 $3,500,000
Marian Hossa 24 $2,750,000
Bryan Smolinski 32 $2,650,000
Patrick Lalime 29 $2,575,000
Zdeno Chara 26 $2,400,000
Curtis Leschyshyn 34 $2,000,000
Chris Phillips 25 $1,675,000
Martin Havlat 22 $1,500,000
Vaclav Varada 27 $1,500,000
Todd Simpson 30 $1,500,000
Todd White 28 $1,150,000
Anton Volchenkov 21 $1,000,000
Mike Fisher 23 $962,500
Karel Rachunek 24 $900,000
Antoine Vermette 21 $750,000
Shane Hnidy 28 $725,000
Petr Schastlivy 24 $662,500
Martin Prusek 28 $625,000
Peter Schaefer 26 $600,000
Chris Neil 24 $575,000
Jason Spezza 20 $565,000
Brian Pothier 26 $525,000
Denis Hamel 26 $500,000
Jody Hull 34 $460,000
Shaun Van Allen 36 $450,000
$50,750,000
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jul 20 @ 3:38 PM ET
the Leafs salary was just under $75M the year before the lockout, and that's including the full salary of their deadline pickups, like Leetch ($6.6M). It wasn't actually that high, the actual amount paid out was quite lower. Anyway, $70M, let's say, and that's being generous.

The Sens were WAY over $28M by then. Almost twice that. About $50M.

Discrepancy, sure. What you're suggesting? Nope.

Mats Sundin 32 $9,000,000
Ed Belfour 38 $7,000,000
Brian Leetch 35 $6,600,000
Owen Nolan 31 $6,500,000
Alexander Mogilny 34 $5,500,000
Ron Francis 40 $4,453,738
Gary Roberts 37 $4,250,000
Bryan McCabe 28 $3,500,000
Robert Reichel 32 $3,250,000
Tomas Kaberle 25 $2,750,000
Mikael Renberg 31 $2,200,000
Joe Nieuwendyk 37 $2,000,000
Tie Domi 34 $2,000,000
Bryan Marchment 34 $2,000,000
Darcy Tucker 28 $1,600,000
Ken Klee 32 $1,500,000
Aki Berg 26 $1,400,000
Matt Stajan 20 $950,000
Nik Antropov 23 $925,000
Tom Fitzgerald 35 $900,000
Wade Belak 27 $850,000
Chad Kilger 27 $800,000
Mikael Tellqvist 24 $700,000
Trevor Kidd 31 $650,000
Richard Jackman 25 $585,640
Clarke Wilm 27 $575,000
Alexei Ponikarovsky 23 $522,500
Craig Johnson 31 $500,000
Karel Pilar 26 $450,000
Drake Berehowsky 31 $450,000
Nathan Perrott 27 $400,000
$74,761,878

Daniel Alfredsson 31 $5,050,000
Wade Redden 26 $4,500,000
Peter Bondra 35 $4,500,000
Greg De Vries 30 $4,200,000
Radek Bonk 27 $3,500,000
Marian Hossa 24 $2,750,000
Bryan Smolinski 32 $2,650,000
Patrick Lalime 29 $2,575,000
Zdeno Chara 26 $2,400,000
Curtis Leschyshyn 34 $2,000,000
Chris Phillips 25 $1,675,000
Martin Havlat 22 $1,500,000
Vaclav Varada 27 $1,500,000
Todd Simpson 30 $1,500,000
Todd White 28 $1,150,000
Anton Volchenkov 21 $1,000,000
Mike Fisher 23 $962,500
Karel Rachunek 24 $900,000
Antoine Vermette 21 $750,000
Shane Hnidy 28 $725,000
Petr Schastlivy 24 $662,500
Martin Prusek 28 $625,000
Peter Schaefer 26 $600,000
Chris Neil 24 $575,000
Jason Spezza 20 $565,000
Brian Pothier 26 $525,000
Denis Hamel 26 $500,000
Jody Hull 34 $460,000
Shaun Van Allen 36 $450,000
$50,750,000

- prock
So 20 million is chump change i guess,look at the previous years ,and the gap is even worse
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jul 20 @ 3:39 PM ET
my dad could beat up yours
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 20 @ 3:43 PM ET
I don't think the Leafs have an answer for this season... they're probably going to be very bad.

The Sens will be less bad, but still just as bad as they were.

I think over the course of the next 5-10 years, the Leafs will be far superior to the Sens, who will likely still be muddling around where they are and have been, or worse.

July, September, December... that won't likely change.

- Feeling Glucky?



that's what you said way back in 2008 (eight years ago) when Brian Burke became the GM of the leafs ................. how'd that work out for you?


Joined: 12.31.1969

Deleted Post []
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