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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 13 @ 8:26 PM ET
Well, that happens when you can find 30 better prospects on other teams.

Realistically, these things are all subjective, if you were to come up with a list, I think after about the 25 mark, if you take the most optimistic view you can of Chabot, White, or Brown, they MIGHT fit in. On average, I'm guessing late 20s or around 30th, and pessimistically, maybe mid 30s.

I can guarantee that 99% of people outside of Ottawa fans would take all of these guys ahead of Chabot, White, Brown or any other prospect in the system, from the last few drafts:

Auston Matthews
Laine
Puljujarvi
Dubois
Provorov
Nylander
Strome
Marner
Tkachuk
Rantenen
Werenski
Juolevi
Kyle Conner
Aho
Sanheim
Sergachev
Clayton Keller
Brock Boeser
Shea Theodore
Alex Nylander
Barzal
Zacha
Konecny
Dvorak

Just looking at the draft lists, I think those are probably all easily ahead.

then there are the ones that are probably questionable, for one reason or another

Vesey
Morrisey
Tyson Jost
Buchnevich
Chycrun (I would easily, weird to me he dropped)
Timo Meier
Lawson Crouse
Kempe? (I admit, I've not followed too closely recently)

Throw in some of the highest rated goalie prospects around, and there you go.

I think a couple of them might come close, depending on one's interpretation, but I think it's pretty safe to say none of the crack top 25 lists, and depending on the scout, or whatever, there may be a few lists out there where they won't crack the top 30.

- prock


Is that list in order or just random?

Cuz Marner that low...
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 13 @ 8:42 PM ET
Look dude ,quoting any major Toronto based media outlet including print .While trying to make a point really doesn fly well.They almost never talk about our team ,and when they do its usually just to sling mud
- top shelf 15


This is an important point. I have always thought the Toronto media had way too much influence in the Leaf decision making. The media creates a theme, they pump the theme and everyone comes to believe in the theme because nobody wants to break the story line.

I believe the Austin Matthews story is a prime example of a runaway theme. Matthews was not even close to being the best player in the draft after Christmas. Both Finns were clearly better and had it not been for the media pumping his story as the Leafs first overall selection he would have dropped to third or fourth. Simply, everyone had too much invested into the storyline too pull back on the story everyone (including fans) wanted to see.

Anyway it will be apparent once the season starts that Matthews (a good player) does not punch in the same class as the Finns. Leaf fans will likely be discouraged. But, I don't think anyone will figure it out. They will wonder why everyone missed on Laine and they will blame Leaf management. They will miss on the pervasive influence the media has on Leaf management decisions.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 13 @ 8:51 PM ET
Well, that happens when you can find 30 better prospects on other teams.

Realistically, these things are all subjective, if you were to come up with a list, I think after about the 25 mark, if you take the most optimistic view you can of Chabot, White, or Brown, they MIGHT fit in. On average, I'm guessing late 20s or around 30th, and pessimistically, maybe mid 30s.

I can guarantee that 99% of people outside of Ottawa fans would take all of these guys ahead of Chabot, White, Brown or any other prospect in the system, from the last few drafts:

Auston Matthews
Laine
Puljujarvi
Dubois
Provorov
Nylander
Strome
Marner
Tkachuk
Rantenen
Werenski
Juolevi
Kyle Conner
Aho
Sanheim
Sergachev
Clayton Keller
Brock Boeser
Shea Theodore
Alex Nylander
Barzal
Zacha
Konecny
Dvorak

Just looking at the draft lists, I think those are probably all easily ahead.

then there are the ones that are probably questionable, for one reason or another

Vesey
Morrisey
Tyson Jost
Buchnevich
Chycrun (I would easily, weird to me he dropped)
Timo Meier
Lawson Crouse
Kempe? (I admit, I've not followed too closely recently)

Throw in some of the highest rated goalie prospects around, and there you go.

I think a couple of them might come close, depending on one's interpretation, but I think it's pretty safe to say none of the crack top 25 lists, and depending on the scout, or whatever, there may be a few lists out there where they won't crack the top 30.

- prock


And, so, when White and Brown are the first and second line centres at the WJC this year and Chabot is Team Canada's #1 D you will remain silent. When Matthews struggles you will remain silent. When the Leafs languish in last place, well out of the playoffs by December you will remain silent.

Your still trying to pretend that Karlsson is not a prodigy, a truly gifted player.

I understand that your attacks on Edmonton players in the past and now Ottawa players in all about deflecting attention from the overall failure of the Leafs. Well, get ready, you are headed to another year of futility.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 12:26 AM ET
This is an important point. I have always thought the Toronto media had way too much influence in the Leaf decision making. The media creates a theme, they pump the theme and everyone comes to believe in the theme because nobody wants to break the story line.

I believe the Austin Matthews story is a prime example of a runaway theme. Matthews was not even close to being the best player in the draft after Christmas. Both Finns were clearly better and had it not been for the media pumping his story as the Leafs first overall selection he would have dropped to third or fourth. Simply, everyone had too much invested into the storyline too pull back on the story everyone (including fans) wanted to see.

Anyway it will be apparent once the season starts that Matthews (a good player) does not punch in the same class as the Finns. Leaf fans will likely be discouraged. But, I don't think anyone will figure it out. They will wonder why everyone missed on Laine and they will blame Leaf management. They will miss on the pervasive influence the media has on Leaf management decisions.

- spatso



burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 12:29 AM ET
And, so, when White and Brown are the first and second line centres at the WJC this year and Chabot is Team Canada's #1 D you will remain silent. When Matthews struggles you will remain silent. When the Leafs languish in last place, well out of the playoffs by December you will remain silent.

Your still trying to pretend that Karlsson is not a prodigy, a truly gifted player.

I understand that your attacks on Edmonton players in the past and now Ottawa players in all about deflecting attention from the overall failure of the Leafs. Well, get ready, you are headed to another year of futility.

- spatso



Jesus Christ, if brown is the #2 centre for wjc then Canada may as well not send a team.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 14 @ 5:39 AM ET
Jesus Christ, if brown is the #2 centre for wjc then Canada may as well not send a team.
- burn


Pst.....American.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 14 @ 5:51 AM ET
Just read comment that the Leafs are trying to squeeze Matthews off of his entitled bonus package as a first overall pick. Sounds awfully dumb to me.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 6:43 AM ET
Just read comment that the Leafs are trying to squeeze Matthews off of his entitled bonus package as a first overall pick. Sounds awfully dumb to me.
- spatso




Funny, isn't this exactly what you just complained about earlier? The leafs have no leaks. There are no rumours about what they are doing. The "stories" about them and the bonuses is just that, stories. I haven't seen a single article saying that the leafs are negotiating with Matthews, none have quoted either side saying what's going on.its just them speculating...... Omg it's not signed yet, what could be the hold up.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 6:44 AM ET
Complains about Toronto based media, then turns around and uses them as source 2 posts later.

senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jul 14 @ 7:51 AM ET
Just read comment that the Leafs are trying to squeeze Matthews off of his entitled bonus package as a first overall pick. Sounds awfully dumb to me.
- spatso



This is an important point. I have always thought the Toronto media had way too much influence in the Leaf decision making. The media creates a theme, they pump the theme and everyone comes to believe in the theme because nobody wants to break the story line.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jul 14 @ 7:57 AM ET
This is an important point. I have always thought the Toronto media had way too much influence in the Leaf decision making. The media creates a theme, they pump the theme and everyone comes to believe in the theme because nobody wants to break the story line.

I believe the Austin Matthews story is a prime example of a runaway theme. Matthews was not even close to being the best player in the draft after Christmas. Both Finns were clearly better and had it not been for the media pumping his story as the Leafs first overall selection he would have dropped to third or fourth. Simply, everyone had too much invested into the storyline too pull back on the story everyone (including fans) wanted to see.

Anyway it will be apparent once the season starts that Matthews (a good player) does not punch in the same class as the Finns. Leaf fans will likely be discouraged. But, I don't think anyone will figure it out. They will wonder why everyone missed on Laine and they will blame Leaf management. They will miss on the pervasive influence the media has on Leaf management decisions.

- spatso


You are not an NHL scout, but you try to play one on the Internet

At the time of the draft who was the player that was the consensus #1 by scouts?
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 14 @ 8:21 AM ET
And, so, when White and Brown are the first and second line centres at the WJC this year and Chabot is Team Canada's #1 D you will remain silent. When Matthews struggles you will remain silent. When the Leafs languish in last place, well out of the playoffs by December you will remain silent.

Your still trying to pretend that Karlsson is not a prodigy, a truly gifted player.

I understand that your attacks on Edmonton players in the past and now Ottawa players in all about deflecting attention from the overall failure of the Leafs. Well, get ready, you are headed to another year of futility.

- spatso


Remember, he just finally admitted, in the last 6 months or so, that in fact Cary Price was an "elite" goaltender ......... so don't hold your breath.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 14 @ 8:43 AM ET
Quick! Someone post the quote about Leafs fans overrating their prospects!
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 14 @ 8:55 AM ET
Quick! Someone post the quote about Leafs fans overrating their prospects!
- Feeling Glucky?


This is not what you want to talk about. The Toronto based hockey media pumped Matthews all the way to #1. Now we hear people starting to back away and talk about Laine as the likely Calder favourite. What is wrong with these guys?
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 14 @ 8:58 AM ET
You are not an NHL scout, but you try to play one on the Internet

At the time of the draft who was the player that was the consensus #1 by scouts?

- senstroll


That is my point. It was not a consensus. Even in the TSN survey two scouts shifted to Laine as their 1st overall pick. But the Leafs were way too deep into Matthews to move off their earlier plan. Too bad.
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: I genuinely think the IQ level is alot lower there than here, so I get to win more arguments. Walshy
Joined: 07.14.2011

Jul 14 @ 9:00 AM ET
Complains about Toronto based media, then turns around and uses them as source 2 posts later.


- burn



It's Spatso man
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 14 @ 9:00 AM ET
Quick! Someone post the quote about Leafs fans overrating their prospects!
- Feeling Glucky?


http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hp?thread_id=98708&page=2
I agree with that.

Looking at some of the Leafs rankings they are way off. Holzer is 6th on the Leafs D?? D'Amigo is 6th LW? Scrivens is 4th in goalies?? I think that those rankings is messed royally.

- burn


http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hp?thread_id=36912&page=2

Well, If you're going to "Blow it Up", trading Toskala makes sense, especially with Pogge looking so good right now. For a fan that wants to see the team dismantled, I can understand why they'd want him traded.
- RogerRoeper




http://www.hockeybuzz.com...thread.php?thread_id=1276
leafs sign the second leading scorer in the league

.............of the AHL C - Erik Westrum..good signing..if he pans out

- wolfpacns



http://www.hockeybuzz.com...read.php?thread_id=117411

i think Leivo and D'amigo get the best opportunity next season
- senstroll



http://www.hockeybuzz.com...read.php?thread_id=117411

It was Bibeau being named the QMJHL Playoff MVP that I was thinking of

so leafs prospects are winning awards .. OHL mvp, SHL ROY, QMJHL Playoff MVP
dont think that happened much before.

- senstroll



oh I wasn't aware Connor Brown not only won the scoring title, but MVP award. Interesting.

All that, combined with a team dominating the AHL, 3 players in the Mem Cup, 2 of which are still in it and playing key roles. That’s a pretty good year.

Kind of makes you think, the Leafs farm system will be in good shape for the next decade.

- prock
SolidGoldBricks
Season Ticket Holder
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ^^ I won a contest ^^, MI
Joined: 10.30.2013

Jul 14 @ 9:04 AM ET
That is my point. It was not a consensus. Even in the TSN survey two scouts shifted to Laine as their 1st overall pick. But the Leafs were way too deep into Matthews to move off their earlier pan. Too bad.
- spatso


TWO SCOUTS! Holy crap. I wish the Leafs would have listened to those two scouts. They really look stupid now, ignoring two whole scouts.
zazzle
Joined: 01.19.2013

Jul 14 @ 9:11 AM ET
And, so, when White and Brown are the first and second line centres at the WJC this year and Chabot is Team Canada's #1 D you will remain silent. When Matthews struggles you will remain silent. When the Leafs languish in last place, well out of the playoffs by December you will remain silent.

Your still trying to pretend that Karlsson is not a prodigy, a truly gifted player.

I understand that your attacks on Edmonton players in the past and now Ottawa players in all about deflecting attention from the overall failure of the Leafs. Well, get ready, you are headed to another year of futility.

- spatso



oy-vey put away the meth dude. we don't know that until later in the hockey season.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 9:12 AM ET
That is my point. It was not a consensus. Even in the TSN survey two scouts shifted to Laine as their 1st overall pick. But the Leafs were way too deep into Matthews to move off their earlier plan. Too bad.
- spatso



So 2 scouts surveyed said laine, but it's cause of the media the leafs counldnt back away from Matthews?

(frank) me this is dumb.


Yeah, 20% but they should have taken him. Leaf get a franchise center. A complete player.... Everything they need, but it's not who they should have taken.


You're shtick is amazing, never waivers. Very amazing.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 14 @ 9:14 AM ET
TWO SCOUTS! Holy crap. I wish the Leafs would have listened to those two scouts. They really look stupid now, ignoring two whole scouts.
- SolidGoldBricks


It was a controlled time series survey. Two scouts was a huge shift in the base. Headline kept the Matthews pump in place causing some people to believe he was the consensus pick. but if you checked in the body of the story it was apparent that the consensus had been downgraded. Laine had all the momentum coming into the draft. But way too much credibility had been spent on Matthews. He is a good hockey player and he will be fine. But Leafs will regret not taking the superstar.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 14 @ 9:17 AM ET
So 2 scouts surveyed said laine, but it's cause of the media the leafs counldnt back away from Matthews?

(frank) me this is dumb.


Yeah, 20% but they should have taken him. Leaf get a franchise center. A complete player.... Everything they need, but it's not who they should have taken.


You're shtick is amazing, never waivers. Very amazing.

- burn


I would have taken Matthews because you want the #1 centre. But still have to look at Laine and think the Leafs did not go after a guy that might the best pure goal scorer since Ovechkin.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 9:18 AM ET
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/thread.php?thread_id=98708&page=2


http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hp?thread_id=36912&page=2





http://www.hockeybuzz.com...thread.php?thread_id=1276



http://www.hockeybuzz.com...read.php?thread_id=117411




http://www.hockeybuzz.com...read.php?thread_id=117411

- D0PPELGANGER


WOW, look at all that over reaction.... Almost like lazar is a superstar and puempel is a stud and chabot is a superstar and brown doesn't suck.





Classic hb, here's a post that proves my point (yet misses the mark wildly)
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 9:19 AM ET
I would have taken Matthews because you want the #1 centre. But still have to look at Laine and think the Leafs did not go after a guy that might the best pure goal scorer since Ovechkin.
- spatso



So? Matthews a very good scorer in his own right.... And had been compared to the likes of kopitar.

Joined: 12.31.1969

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619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 645, 646, 647, 648, 649, 650, 651, 652, 653, 654, 655, 656, 657, 658, 659, 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, 665, 666, 667, 668, 669, 670, 671, 672, 673, 674, 675, 676, 677, 678, 679, 680, 681, 682, 683, 684, 685, 686, 687, 688, 689, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698, 699, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 724, 725, 726, 727, 728, 729, 730, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, 743, 744, 745, 746, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, 758, 759, 760, 761, 762, 763, 764, 765, 766, 767, 768, 769, 770, 771, 772, 773, 774, 775, 776, 777, 778, 779, 780, 781, 782, 783, 784, 785, 786, 787, 788, 789, 790, 791, 792, 793, 794, 795, 796, 797, 798, 799, 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 824, 825, 826, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 840, 841, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847, 848, 849, 850, 851, 852, 853, 854, 855, 856, 857, 858, 859, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864, 865, 866, 867, 868, 869, 870, 871, 872, 873, 874, 875, 876, 877, 878, 879, 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 885, 886, 887, 888, 889, 890, 891, 892, 893, 894, 895, 896, 897, 898, 899, 900, 901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 945, 946, 947, 948, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953, 954, 955, 956, 957, 958, 959, 960, 961, 962, 963, 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 969, 970, 971, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, 978, 979, 980, 981, 982, 983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989, 990, 991, 992, 993, 994, 995, 996, 997, 998, 999, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1016, 1017, 1018, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1022, 1023, 1024, 1025, 1026, 1027, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037, 1038, 1039, 1040, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1044, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1049, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, 1055, 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1072, 1073, 1074, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1078, 1079, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1093, 1094, 1095, 1096, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1109, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1115, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1122, 1123, 1124, 1125, 1126, 1127, 1128, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1133, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139, 1140, 1141, 1142, 1143, 1144, 1145, 1146, 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 1151, 1152, 1153, 1154, 1155, 1156, 1157, 1158, 1159, 1160  Next