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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: he's 35, time to be fart the messenger boy.
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jun 15 @ 11:13 AM ET


Soon your transformation to full on troll will be complete

- senstroll


senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 15 @ 11:25 AM ET
... This is actually a valid point. The cap hit doesn't matter to Ottawa.

Having the cap space matters to the Leafs because they have a willingness to use it.

- Aetherial



It does if you are spending 7 mil on Phaneuf..its more important to spend wisely

burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jun 15 @ 11:42 AM ET
Anytime. I'm glad we traded our crap for your crap. It cost us nothing but it cost you a pick and a prospect.

Good news is, your crap will last longer than our crap. And who doesn't love crap that stinks longer ?

- systemtool



top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 11:51 AM ET
It does if you are spending 7 mil on Phaneuf..its more important to spend wisely
- senstroll
Welp, we needed a decent veteran dman .We saved money on moving out, more money than we took in .And we have a replacement for Methot when we lose him to the expansion draft,which would have happened regardless if we traded for Phanuef or not so...
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jun 15 @ 11:54 AM ET
Welp, we needed a decent veteran dman .We saved money on moving out, more money than we took in .And we have a replacement for Methot when we lose him to the expansion draft,which would have happened regardless if we traded for Phanuef or not so...
- top shelf 15



That's pretty presumptive. Maybe they don't take him?

How would you lose him regardless? Without phanuef you have an extra slot to protect methot.
senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 15 @ 12:10 PM ET
Welp, we needed a decent veteran dman .We saved money on moving out, more money than we took in .And we have a replacement for Methot when we lose him to the expansion draft,which would have happened regardless if we traded for Phanuef or not so...
- top shelf 15



I mean I guess he is a Veteran..so half of what you needed is ok?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 12:28 PM ET
That's pretty presumptive. Maybe they don't take him?

How would you lose him regardless? Without phanuef you have an extra slot to protect methot.

- burn
Need to leave a two defenders that have played more than 70 games in the last 2 seasons ,Ottawa has two Boro and Methot .Also him being a 32 year old ufa the following year probably had something to also do with this
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 12:31 PM ET
I mean I guess he is a Veteran..so half of what you needed is ok?
- senstroll
Meh, never had a issue with Dion .Methot is better on the defense ,but lacks by comparision on offense .We needed a decent vet and we got one cheap ,we gave away a 2nd and a replaceable prospect.And saved some money doing it ,so i dont see the problem TBH
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 15 @ 12:56 PM ET
Welp, we needed a decent veteran dman .We saved money on moving out, more money than we took in .And we have a replacement for Methot when we lose him to the expansion draft,which would have happened regardless if we traded for Phanuef or not so...
- top shelf 15



Not really. you moved out like $10M total, spread over 2 years or so. You took in $37M or so, spread over 5 years.

You took on over $27M in salary commitments.

Or, do you not agree that GMs should consider a timeframe longer than one single season?
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 15 @ 1:00 PM ET
It does if you are spending 7 mil on Phaneuf..its more important to spend wisely
- senstroll


7.5 Next season, and then 7.0, 6.5, 6.5 and 5.5 on the remaining years of his contract.
Yes his cap hit is 7M, but in actual dollars it's and average of 6.6M per season..... which is about 567K less than Karlsson's average, over the remaining years on his contract.



senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:12 PM ET
7.5 Next season, and then 7.0, 6.5, 6.5 and 5.5 on the remaining years of his contract.
Yes his cap hit is 7M, but in actual dollars it's and average of 6.6M per season..... which is about 567K less than Karlsson's average, over the remaining years on his contract.

- D0PPELGANGER



im talking about cap management only
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:14 PM ET
Not really. you moved out like $10M total, spread over 2 years or so. You took in $37M or so, spread over 5 years.

You took on over $27M in salary commitments.

Or, do you not agree that GMs should consider a timeframe longer than one single season?

- prock
And what does a to 4 defender usually go for??my guess would be around 5 to 6 mil per .So Dion at 5.4 mil ,isnt something too crazy considering guys like Orpik make 5.5 .Ty for making my point
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:14 PM ET
im talking about cap management only
- senstroll

And that would matter if we were a cap team ,but we arent so.....
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 15 @ 1:23 PM ET
And what does a to 4 defender usually go for??my guess would be around 5 to 6 mil per .So Dion at 5.4 mil ,isnt something too crazy considering guys like Orpik make 5.5 .Ty for making my point

- top shelf 15



Typically, on average, if he's a number 4 as your compadres claim he is, maybe about $2M to 3M? I highly doubt you can many NHL teams with more than 2 dman at over $5M. Calgary, Winnipeg, Montreal maybe? That's all? There are FAR more teams than three that don't have a single dman at over $5M.

He's not at $5.4M either. he's much higher than that.
senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:24 PM ET
And that would matter if we were a cap team ,but we arent so.....
- top shelf 15



we went over this..yes it does ..why dont you get it?

Cap hit matters... if the Sens have a cap of 65 million.
Dion takes up 10-11% of that ...it hinders you from paying other players what they are worth.

Dion does not provide you the value of a 7 mil player... maybe half that...

did you at all read the link I posted explaining why it matters? Probably not...becuase you keep repeating how it doesnt matter.

In roster construction.. value matters...
this was while Dion was still a Leaf..he was the biggest drag on the leafs cap value

https://mapleleafshotstov...cago-blackhawks-playbook/

that was for a team spending to the cap..for a team that doesnt (sens)..the impact is even greater
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:26 PM ET
Typically, on average, if he's a number 4 as your compadres claim he is, maybe about $2M to 3M? I highly doubt you can many NHL teams with more than 2 dman at over $5M. Calgary, Winnipeg, Montreal maybe? That's all? There are FAR more teams than three that don't have a single dman at over $5M.

He's not at $5.4M either. he's much higher than that.

- prock
Meh your opinion and you are welcome to it .But Phanuef isnt as big a deal at that number to us as you are a making it seem .It was a good trade for us and for you guys as well ,if you cant see this oh well
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 15 @ 1:27 PM ET
And that would matter if we were a cap team ,but we arent so.....
- top shelf 15



so, we can assume you're of the thought process that Melnyk will not spend to the cap in order to win a cup?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:33 PM ET
we went over this..yes it does ..why dont you get it?

Cap hit matters... if the Sens have a cap of 65 million.
Dion takes up 10-11% of that ...it hinders you from paying other players what they are worth.

Dion does not provide you the value of a 7 mil player... maybe half that...

did you at all read the link I posted explaining why it matters? Probably not...becuase you keep repeating how it doesnt matter.

In roster construction.. value matters...
this was while Dion was still a Leaf..he was the biggest drag on the leafs cap value

https://mapleleafshotstov...cago-blackhawks-playbook/

that was for a team spending to the cap..for a team that doesnt (sens)..the impact is even greater

- senstroll
.How much precentage Dion takes of the cap doesnt matter ,he isnt taking 7 mil of the 65 mil .With the players we dumped on you guys it equals 5.4 mil per .As for future player raises ,Ottawa is already equiped to deal with those as well our cap management is excellent .With more than enough money being opened up in the future
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:36 PM ET
so, we can assume you're of the thought process that Melnyk will not spend to the cap in order to win a cup?
- prock
What should we spend our money on??,F/A are usually overpriced .If there is a trade that makes sense ,then maybe the budget moves up .Until that happens we will continue to try and homegrow the best of our talent and await good opportunities as they arise
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: tenav for drouin. lol @ canucks
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 15 @ 1:42 PM ET
.How much precentage Dion takes of the cap doesnt matter ,he isnt taking 7 mil of the 65 mil .With the players we dumped on you guys it equals 5.4 mil per .As for future player raises ,Ottawa is already equiped to deal with those as well our cap management is excellent .With more than enough money being opened up in the future
- top shelf 15


is this for real?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: GMTM on Eichel: "He certainly won't get his pee pee slapped by me for being a little more outspoken., ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jun 15 @ 1:43 PM ET
is this for real?
- Tumbleweed



Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: tenav for drouin. lol @ canucks
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 15 @ 1:44 PM ET
What should we spend our money on??,F/A are usually overpriced .If there is a trade that makes sense ,then maybe the budget moves up .Until that happens we will continue to try and homegrow the best of our talent and await good opportunities as they arise
- top shelf 15


Agreed. It doesn't matter that Ottawa has players with bad caphits and too much term.

Not actively trying to win the cup anyways.
senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:46 PM ET
.How much precentage Dion takes of the cap doesnt matter ,he isnt taking 7 mil of the 65 mil .With the players we dumped on you guys it equals 5.4 mil per .As for future player raises ,Ottawa is already equiped to deal with those as well our cap management is excellent .With more than enough money being opened up in the future
- top shelf 15



I am not sure how you can say in once sentence how you had to dump bad contracts...and then how your cap management is excellent

new GM..Lets see how well he does
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jun 15 @ 1:53 PM ET
I am not sure how you can say in once sentence how you had to dump bad contracts...and then how your cap management is excellent

new GM..Lets see how well he does

- senstroll
Most of them were either expiring this season or the next ,so yeah we arent in bad shape no matter how many charts and pie graphs you through out .Ottawa has two key RFA,s to resign and almost 20 mil to do it ,even with Dion.So again what cap issues does Ottawa have again ??please elighten me??

Joined: 12.31.1969

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