Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 18 @ 7:47 AM ET
since the 3 year rebuild started in 2011, when do you see the sens making that next step in the 3 years rebuild plan?

has this now been adjusted to a 5 year or 7 year plan?
with all those great home grown players when can we expect the sens to be back in the playoffs?

- senstroll




Yeah I know, Murray knew three years ago that Spezza would bail on the team, and request a trade.


As for the playoffs, perhaps 2017.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 18 @ 7:49 AM ET
well lets see

the sens top players are in their prime (not going to get better), they have no elite prospects, and they currently suck but not enough to get a good pick. the fact that we're even comparing them to the leafs says it all really.

- daeth




Yeah you're completely right. You should be comparing the leafs to the Sabres and Oilers.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 18 @ 7:51 AM ET
You better be just getting home from school kid. Were you in English class today?
- prock



WOW, attacking someone's ethnicity?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 18 @ 8:52 AM ET
WOW, attacking someone's ethnicity?
- Doppleganger

daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 18 @ 8:56 AM ET
Yeah you're completely right. You should be comparing the leafs to the Sabres and Oilers.
- Doppleganger

Ottawa has received 6 more points than Toronto going back to the shortened season. The Sabres and Oilers have had significantly less points than the Leafs over that stretch. The Sens are a better comparison.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 18 @ 8:57 AM ET
With that said I'm going to make a fairly easy prediction. Buffalo will be good before any of those teams I just mentioned.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Feb 18 @ 9:13 AM ET
Best 3 year rebuild I’ve ever seen. They’re sneaky, putting together a terrible team with no top prospects, those Sens. Definitely the unorthodox approach to a rebuild. Who says you need good players!?!?!?!?!
- prock

Oh prockie never change
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Feb 18 @ 9:14 AM ET
Ottawa has received 6 more points than Toronto going back to the shortened season. The Sabres and Oilers have had significantly less points than the Leafs over that stretch. The Sens are a better comparison.
- daeth
What stretch??
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 18 @ 9:19 AM ET
What stretch??

- top shelf 15

top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Feb 18 @ 10:21 AM ET

- daeth
Seriously??Our rebuild is on track ,we have our kids in the nhl developing .And are looking now to refresh our pipeline ,i suspect once Lazar is ahl eligible he will be sent there for more seasoning .He will join other new faces such as Paul ,Wikstrand ,Harpur etc and start the next cycle.

As for the elite prospect debate ,yep i can see a shortage there.But its not as if we have had bottom 3 finishes to aquire that kind of prospect talent .So we mine and develop out lower and later picks Stone and Hoffman are perfect examples of this .The overall look of the team reminds me a bit like Stlouis ,good four line team with a few shiny pieces thrown in

top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Feb 18 @ 10:35 AM ET
Nonis traded him for Matt (frank)ing Frattin before Shanny could smack the phone out of his hand.
- Feeling Glucky?
Yep one word for leaf fans about prospects, is patience .Some of these guys will take years to make the nhl ,some will look like crap from time to time .But you have a 7 year window in which to develop even the slightest of talent .Even a forth line/bottom pair plug farmed has worth
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 18 @ 10:47 AM ET
Ottawa has received 6 more points than Toronto going back to the shortened season. The Sabres and Oilers have had significantly less points than the Leafs over that stretch. The Sens are a better comparison.
- daeth



Ottawa has made the playoffs 13 times in the past 17 seasons, while the leafs have made the playoffs once in the past ten years, eleven if you included this year if they fail to make the playoffs again.

The leafs have much more in common with teams that have struggled to make the playoffs for long periods of time.


Now that the leafs have said they're embarking on a total "scorched earth" approach to a complete "through the draft" re-build, like the Oilers have been doing for the number of years...........then the Oilers comparison is the best "benchmark" to measure the leafs with.


Also, currently there are only four teams with 30 or more losses this season, and that includes the leafs and the Oilers.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 18 @ 12:06 PM ET
keep pretending ottawa isnt awful if it makes you feel better i guess
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Feb 18 @ 12:07 PM ET
keep pretending ottawa isnt awful if it makes you feel better i guess
- daeth

senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 18 @ 12:51 PM ET
Ottawa has made the playoffs 13 times in the past 17 seasons, while the leafs have made the playoffs once in the past ten years, eleven if you included this year if they fail to make the playoffs again.

The leafs have much more in common with teams that have struggled to make the playoffs for long periods of time.


Now that the leafs have said they're embarking on a total "scorched earth" approach to a complete "through the draft" re-build, like the Oilers have been doing for the number of years...........then the Oilers comparison is the best "benchmark" to measure the leafs with.


Also, currently there are only four teams with 30 or more losses this season, and that includes the leafs and the Oilers.

- Doppleganger



congrats on the 1927 championship
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Feb 18 @ 1:22 PM ET
congrats on the 1927 championship
- senstroll


Thanks dude!
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 18 @ 1:40 PM ET
Ottawa has made the playoffs 13 times in the past 17 seasons, while the leafs have made the playoffs once in the past ten years, eleven if you included this year if they fail to make the playoffs again.

The leafs have much more in common with teams that have struggled to make the playoffs for long periods of time.


Now that the leafs have said they're embarking on a total "scorched earth" approach to a complete "through the draft" re-build, like the Oilers have been doing for the number of years...........then the Oilers comparison is the best "benchmark" to measure the leafs with.


Also, currently there are only four teams with 30 or more losses this season, and that includes the leafs and the Oilers.

- Doppleganger



Do you really not consider a loss in overtime a loss at all?

Here is a post from you, earlier in this thread:

But can goaltender help stop other teams from scoring goals??

Well you may not realize this, so I will explain it to you.

Regulation and Overtime wins are worth more than Shootout wins, therefore Shootout wins are devalued.

toronto is ranked 24th overall in regulation and overtime wins. (Ottawa 16th)


As for Ottawa's loser points, I don't why you'd want me to compare a "loss" to a "win" . Suffice it to say but Ottawa's loser points have them one point behind the leafs.

All losses are treated equally by the NHL, but Shootout wins are not equal to regulation and overtime wins.

By not winning in Regulation since October......the leafs have given up points to teams that may have passed them.

- Doppleganger

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 18 @ 3:21 PM ET
Do you really not consider a loss in overtime a loss at all?

Here is a post from you, earlier in this thread:

- prock




I hate overtime and shoot outs in the regular season............would prefer to go back to ties, but pretty sure that ship has sailed.

The NHL records all losses (shoot out, regular and overtime) but they weight wins in regular and OT more than a win in a shoot out........so until they screw things up and differentiate looses in the same way, it is what it is.


Playoffs should of course go to SD OT and NEVER a shoot out.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 18 @ 5:22 PM ET
Yep one word for leaf fans about prospects, is patience .Some of these guys will take years to make the nhl ,some will look like crap from time to time .But you have a 7 year window in which to develop even the slightest of talent .Even a forth line/bottom pair plug farmed has worth

- top shelf 15

It's not that Ottawas guys all look like crap... It's that there aren't any prospects/youngsters that look like they'll be more than supporting guys.


So now the team is building up around those decent supporting guys who have no star players to support... And since they already blew their chance to trade away their skilled guys, there isn't really much they can do to tank outside of kneecapping their goalies... So they're going to be stuck in mediocrity for a while. Aka, TML purgatory. The cheapskate owner also makes trading for or signing a star even less likely than it already is.


At least the Leafs under Shanahan seem to realize they need to blow it up and stockpile picks... And are doing it in a damn good draft. Seems like as long as they're picking top-5, they'll have a shot at either a potential top line center or #1 dman... Very important piece either way.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 18 @ 5:26 PM ET
Ottawa has made the playoffs 13 times in the past 17 seasons, while the leafs have made the playoffs once in the past ten years, eleven if you included this year if they fail to make the playoffs again.

The leafs have much more in common with teams that have struggled to make the playoffs for long periods of time.


Now that the leafs have said they're embarking on a total "scorched earth" approach to a complete "through the draft" re-build, like the Oilers have been doing for the number of years...........then the Oilers comparison is the best "benchmark" to measure the leafs with.


Also, currently there are only four teams with 30 or more losses this season, and that includes the leafs and the Oilers.

- Doppleganger


Your math skills are shining through again. There are 13 teams with 30+ losses... And that includes the senators.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 18 @ 6:31 PM ET
Leafs are clearly in a better situation

thread over
Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 12 grands is NOTHING in the art market.
Joined: 07.06.2007

Feb 18 @ 8:44 PM ET
Useless (frank)ing senators. What a worthless (frank)ing disgrace of a franchise.
- Pecafan Fan

TheTaoOfSemenko
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 07.01.2009

Feb 18 @ 8:57 PM ET
I was in a sports bar in Orlando Saturday afternoon. Huge place, packed with people. Anyway, Chris Neil and the young guy from Edmonton had a great fight. Every Canadian in the room (and there were lots) got pumped real fast, lots of cheering for a great fight.

You might tell yourself you don't care. But, it is in our blood. We cannot deny the passion, we can try and repress it but it will bubble up to the surface.

- spatso

No. I really don't care. I can barely even be bothered to check scores anymore.
Pie
Montreal Canadiens
Location: taking the low road
Joined: 10.14.2006

Feb 18 @ 9:45 PM ET
[quote=Crimsoninja]
angles
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 19 @ 8:21 AM ET
Your math skills are shining through again. There are 13 teams with 30+ losses... And that includes the senators.
- Feeling Glucky?



Not according to NHL.COM
http://www.nhl.com/ice/te...t=losses&viewName=summary

Buffalo 37
Edmonton 32
Arizona 31
toronto 30


Don't know where you're getting your stats from, but you missed the mark on this one my good friend.



BTW Ottawa has 23 losses.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 257, 258, 259, 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266, 267, 268, 269, 270, 271, 272, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 278, 279, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 287, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 295, 296, 297, 298, 299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334, 335, 336, 337, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 350, 351, 352, 353, 354, 355, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 377, 378, 379, 380, 381, 382, 383, 384, 385, 386, 387, 388, 389, 390, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, 405, 406, 407, 408, 409, 410, 411, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 423, 424, 425, 426, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 436, 437, 438, 439, 440, 441, 442, 443, 444, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 450, 451, 452, 453, 454, 455, 456, 457, 458, 459, 460, 461, 462, 463, 464, 465, 466, 467, 468, 469, 470, 471, 472, 473, 474, 475, 476, 477, 478, 479, 480, 481, 482, 483, 484, 485, 486, 487, 488, 489, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 495, 496, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 509, 510, 511, 512, 513, 514, 515, 516, 517, 518, 519, 520, 521, 522, 523, 524, 525, 526, 527, 528, 529, 530, 531, 532, 533, 534, 535, 536, 537, 538, 539, 540, 541, 542, 543, 544, 545, 546, 547, 548, 549, 550, 551, 552, 553, 554, 555, 556, 557, 558, 559, 560, 561, 562, 563, 564, 565, 566, 567, 568, 569, 570, 571, 572, 573, 574, 575, 576, 577, 578, 579, 580, 581, 582, 583, 584, 585, 586, 587, 588, 589, 590, 591, 592, 593, 594, 595, 596, 597, 598, 599, 600, 601, 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609, 610, 611, 612, 613, 614, 615, 616, 617, 618, 619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 645, 646, 647, 648, 649, 650, 651, 652, 653, 654, 655, 656, 657, 658, 659, 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, 665, 666, 667, 668, 669, 670, 671, 672, 673, 674, 675, 676, 677, 678, 679, 680, 681, 682, 683, 684, 685, 686, 687, 688, 689, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698, 699, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 724, 725, 726, 727, 728, 729, 730, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, 743, 744, 745, 746, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, 758, 759, 760, 761, 762, 763, 764, 765, 766, 767, 768, 769, 770, 771, 772, 773, 774, 775, 776, 777, 778, 779, 780, 781, 782, 783, 784, 785, 786, 787, 788, 789, 790, 791, 792, 793, 794, 795, 796, 797, 798, 799, 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 824, 825, 826, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 840, 841, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847, 848, 849, 850, 851, 852, 853, 854, 855, 856, 857, 858, 859, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864, 865, 866, 867, 868, 869, 870, 871, 872, 873, 874, 875, 876, 877, 878, 879, 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 885, 886, 887, 888, 889, 890, 891, 892, 893, 894, 895, 896, 897, 898, 899, 900, 901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 945, 946, 947, 948, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953, 954, 955, 956, 957, 958, 959, 960, 961, 962, 963, 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 969, 970, 971, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, 978, 979, 980, 981, 982, 983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989, 990, 991, 992, 993, 994, 995, 996, 997, 998, 999, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1016, 1017, 1018, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1022, 1023, 1024, 1025, 1026, 1027, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037, 1038, 1039, 1040, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1044, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1049, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, 1055, 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1072, 1073, 1074, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1078, 1079, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1093, 1094, 1095, 1096, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1109, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1115, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1122, 1123, 1124, 1125, 1126, 1127, 1128, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1133, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139, 1140, 1141, 1142, 1143, 1144, 1145, 1146, 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 1151, 1152, 1153, 1154, 1155, 1156, 1157  Next