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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 12 @ 8:22 PM ET
He's also top 10 in points.
- daeth

Yup, one of the most consistent offensive threats in the league, what is it, 4 years straight in the top ten?

One of the many reasons Toronto is in a better position than the Sens
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 12 @ 8:24 PM ET
The worlds fastest doughnut was selected becasue there is no back-checking in the all star game, and he leads the league in that department.


Oh and he won't get Kesseled this year, as they dropped the "school yard pick" where he was the last one selected, by his peers, a few years back.

- Doppleganger

It would be awful if he was Ovechkined.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 13 @ 7:42 AM ET
He's also top 10 in points.
- daeth


Not to many points last night, was a minus one, and now challenging jvr for the team worst plus/minus rating.

With two games in hand, and only 5 points back, will Ottawa join the Panthers, Capitals and Bruins as teams that have managed to pass the leafs in the eastern conference standings since 2015 began?
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Jan 13 @ 7:50 AM ET

With two games in hand, and only 5 points back, will Ottawa join the Panthers, Capitals and Bruins as teams that have managed to pass the leafs in the eastern conference standings since 2015 began?

- Doppleganger


SHOTS FIRED!

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 13 @ 7:55 AM ET
SHOTS FIRED!
- Pecafan Fan



Could happen, the leafs are just starting a tough road trip, and Ottawa has a slightly easier schedule by comparison this week, so not saying I'd bet on it, but with 2 games in hand, it could happen.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Jan 13 @ 8:01 AM ET
Could happen, the leafs are just starting a tough road trip, and Ottawa has a slightly easier schedule by comparison this week, so not saying I'd bet on it, but with 2 games in hand, it could happen.
- Doppleganger

I agree.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 13 @ 8:19 AM ET
I agree.
- Pecafan Fan



Thursdays' game is the toughest on the schedule.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jan 13 @ 9:30 AM ET
Not to many points last night, was a minus one, and now challenging jvr for the team worst plus/minus rating.

With two games in hand, and only 5 points back, will Ottawa join the Panthers, Capitals and Bruins as teams that have managed to pass the leafs in the eastern conference standings since 2015 began?

- Doppleganger

there goes his chance at an 82 game point streak
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 13 @ 10:00 AM ET
I thought Lazar had a great tournament. Complimented McDavid well, and was an excellent leader for the team and a calming influence. I don't project him personally to be a PPG player but a very effective two way, 60 point player isn't out of the question and you win with guys like that.

Their Impact doesn't always translate to the score sheet but in the puck possession crazed NHL they are tremendously valuable players.

- Cape Breton Bruins



A 60 point, strong possession two way player would be excellent. But his talent level, stats in junior, etc, all point to that being far too optimistic a projection.

If you take the first ten players who scored more than 60 points last year, I think you'll find they all managed more than 75 points as an 18 year old in junior. that's a list that includes players like Patrice Bergeron, who scored that at 17. Most of them would have led their team. He had the advantage of being on a good team and couldn't do it.

I think a more realistic projection would be a strong two way, 45 point player.

I guess being at the games, you could see what was going on better. Lazar really wasn't very good. My grandmother could have scored those goals.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 13 @ 10:08 AM ET
The worlds fastest doughnut was selected becasue there is no back-checking in the all star game, and he leads the league in that department.


Oh and he won't get Kesseled this year, as they dropped the "school yard pick" where he was the last one selected, by his peers, a few years back.

- Doppleganger


Whereas Karlsson was not selected, because he doesn't provide enough offense to excuse his lack of back checking.

And Karlsson won't get picked last either, because he just isn't good enough to go.

They had to send someone though, from the Sens, so they send your soft, one dimension, 50 point scorer. 7 mil for that.

I'd say, for the amount of offense that David Clarkson is providing, it's not far off Bobby Ryan. Clarkson may be a better contract than Bobby Ryan.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 13 @ 10:21 AM ET
All star game arguing is the best
people still care about the all star game?
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Jan 13 @ 10:27 AM ET
Clarkson may be a better contract than Bobby Ryan.
- prock


thanks for the new location.

never change prock........
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Jan 13 @ 10:29 AM ET
All star game arguing is the best
people still care about the all star game?

- senstroll


I enjoyed it when it was conf vs conf......now it's just fun to watch the skills competition.

it's like baseball....the only thing worth watching is the homerun derby
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 13 @ 10:34 AM ET
thanks for the new location.

never change prock........

- sensarmy_11



Well, just looking at the facts.

Bobby Ryan is good for about 25 goals, 55 points, when not playing with Getzlaf and Perry. Clarkson looks like he'll be in the 20 goal range.

It's 5 more goals, for $2M more. that's a lot to pay for an extra 5 goals.

I'd say if you look at players in that range, like Valteri Filppula, Matt Moulson, Frans Nielson, Craig Smith, I'd say Bobby Ryan is overpaid by about 3 to 4 million, or thereabouts. Certainly Clarkson is worth more than $2M.

I think if you look at the facts objectively, for their performance this year, Clarkson is probably providing better perfoermance for dollar.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 13 @ 11:16 AM ET
A 60 point, strong possession two way player would be excellent. But his talent level, stats in junior, etc, all point to that being far too optimistic a projection.

If you take the first ten players who scored more than 60 points last year, I think you'll find they all managed more than 75 points as an 18 year old in junior. that's a list that includes players like Patrice Bergeron, who scored that at 17. Most of them would have led their team. He had the advantage of being on a good team and couldn't do it.

I think a more realistic projection would be a strong two way, 45 point player.

I guess being at the games, you could see what was going on better. Lazar really wasn't very good. My grandmother could have scored those goals.

- prock



Is she eligible for this spring's draft?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 13 @ 11:18 AM ET
All star game arguing is the best
people still care about the all star game?

- senstroll



Never watched it before, not gonna start.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 13 @ 11:28 AM ET
Well, just looking at the facts.

Bobby Ryan is good for about 25 goals, 55 points, when not playing with Getzlaf and Perry. Clarkson looks like he'll be in the 20 goal range.

It's 5 more goals, for $2M more. that's a lot to pay for an extra 5 goals.

I'd say if you look at players in that range, like Valteri Filppula, Matt Moulson, Frans Nielson, Craig Smith, I'd say Bobby Ryan is overpaid by about 3 to 4 million, or thereabouts. Certainly Clarkson is worth more than $2M.

I think if you look at the facts objectively, for their performance this year, Clarkson is probably providing better perfoermance for dollar.

- prock




Clarkson has played 103 games for the leafs, and has 14 goals over those games.

Now he's a 20 goal a season scorer ???

That's really warped logic, even for you.

Oh, and Ryans' new contract is not in effect yet, so let's wait and see how he plays next season.

You forgot that Clarkson is three years older than Ryan, so we can also wait and see how productive he'll be in the 2018 -19 & 2019 -20 seasons, compared to a younger Ryan.


If you look at the long term of each player, the Ryan deal is much more palatable.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 13 @ 12:13 PM ET
Clarkson has played 103 games for the leafs, and has 14 goals over those games.

Now he's a 20 goal a season scorer ???

That's really warped logic, even for you.

Oh, and Ryans' new contract is not in effect yet, so let's wait and see how he plays next season.

You forgot that Clarkson is three years older than Ryan, so we can also wait and see how productive he'll be in the 2018 -19 & 2019 -20 seasons, compared to a younger Ryan.


If you look at the long term of each player, the Ryan deal is much more palatable.

- Doppleganger



He's on pace for about 18 goals right now.

I guess if you want to look at last year, his worst year, you'd think that. I very clearly said that this year, performance for dollar. 18 goals for $5M, 25 for $7M.

Either way, $7M for a soft, one dimensional 55 point guy is up there as one of the worst contracts in the league.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 13 @ 3:38 PM ET
He's on pace for about 18 goals right now.

I guess if you want to look at last year, his worst year, you'd think that. I very clearly said that this year, performance for dollar. 18 goals for $5M, 25 for $7M.

Either way, $7M for a soft, one dimensional 55 point guy is up there as one of the worst contracts in the league.

- prock



Ryan is on pace for 25 plus goals right now.


So you very clearly said this year but you failed to recognized that Ryan is in the last year of his contract that pays him $5.1 M this season, less than Kessel, Clarkson and Lupul.


So let's review the goal totals, the two players you insist on comparing.

Clarkson 103 games so far with the leafs, 13 goals @ a $5.25 M cap hit.

Ryan, 108 games so far with the Senators, 33 goals @ a $5.1 M cap hit.


So do you want to continue this comparison?

Clarkson costing $150,000 more per season, and has scored 20 fewer goals.

And you think his contract, so far, is a better contract?

You are the one who wants to compare these two players, not me.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 13 @ 3:57 PM ET
Ryan is on pace for 25 plus goals right now.


So you very clearly said this year but you failed to recognized that Ryan is in the last year of his contract that pays him $5.1 M this season, less than Kessel, Clarkson and Lupul.


So let's review the goal totals, the two players you insist on comparing.

Clarkson 103 games so far with the leafs, 13 goals @ a $5.25 M cap hit.

Ryan, 108 games so far with the Senators, 33 goals @ a $5.1 M cap hit.


So do you want to continue this comparison?

Clarkson costing $150,000 more per season, and has scored 20 fewer goals.

And you think his contract, so far, is a better contract?

You are the one who wants to compare these two players, not me.

- Doppleganger


I can understand why you would want to look at last year, it helps your argument. Unfortunately for you, looking at year's past is the only way you can present Bobby Ryan in a favourable light to Clarkson and his contract.

We know Clarkson won't have that bad a year like that again. You should try to look forward.

It must drive you crazy that you can't look at a normal year to compare contracts with Clarkson to Bobby Ryan and come out looking good.

And the Sens are exactly half way through the season, and he has 12 goals. That's a 24 goal pace.

Additionally, Bobby Ryan has a boat load of PP ice. If you jacked up Clarkson's PP time, maybe they'd be tied in goals.

It's a sad day for Sens fans when they realize their (soft, one dimensional) goal scorer is no better a goal scorer than David Clarkson.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 13 @ 3:58 PM ET
you going to take that Dopp?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 13 @ 4:08 PM ET
I can understand why you would want to look at last year, it helps your argument. Unfortunately for you, looking at year's past is the only way you can present Bobby Ryan in a favourable light to Clarkson and his contract.

We know Clarkson won't have that bad a year like that again. You should try to look forward.

It must drive you crazy that you can't look at a normal year to compare contracts with Clarkson to Bobby Ryan and come out looking good.

And the Sens are exactly half way through the season, and he has 12 goals. That's a 24 goal pace.

Additionally, Bobby Ryan has a boat load of PP ice. If you jacked up Clarkson's PP time, maybe they'd be tied in goals.

It's a sad day for Sens fans when they realize their (soft, one dimensional) goal scorer is no better a goal scorer than David Clarkson.

- prock



I can understand why you would want to look at next year, it helps your argument. Unfortunately for you, looking at next year is the only way you can present Clarkson in a favourable light to Bobby Ryan and his new contract, that kicks in next year.


Oh and do the math, 12 goals in 38 games (for Ryan), is a plus 25 goal pace over an 82 game season.


Ryan is a plus 9, and Clarkson is a minus 4.




the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 13 @ 4:26 PM ET
you going to take that prock?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 13 @ 5:04 PM ET
you going to take that prock?
- the_cause2000

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 13 @ 7:01 PM ET
I can understand why you would want to look at next year, it helps your argument. Unfortunately for you, looking at next year is the only way you can present Clarkson in a favourable light to Bobby Ryan and his new contract, that kicks in next year.


Oh and do the math, 12 goals in 38 games (for Ryan), is a plus 25 goal pace over an 82 game season.


Ryan is a plus 9, and Clarkson is a minus 4.





- Doppleganger


Okay. Have it your way. Once bobby Ryan's new contract kicks in clarksons is better.

You win.

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