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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 22 @ 4:19 PM ET
can we hug this out
Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 12 grands is NOTHING in the art market.
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 22 @ 5:36 PM ET
Flyers trending upward!
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 771 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Dec 22 @ 5:39 PM ET

- Pecafan Fan

Is this the year the Pens cakewalk through the east?
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Dec 23 @ 7:49 AM ET
Is this the year the Pens cakewalk through the east?
- Cape Breton Bruins


Maybe. Lots hockey remaining and we all know Fleury seems to fall apart in the playoffs.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Dec 29 @ 7:00 AM ET
Maybe. Lots hockey remaining and we all know Fleury seems to fall apart in the playoffs.
- Pecafan Fan


If they can all get healthy in time for the end of the season, the Penguins will be in the mix to emerge from the East, along with the Islanders and Habs who both seem to have the better "under pressure" goal-tending of these three teams.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 29 @ 7:15 AM ET
Flyers trending upward!
- Crimsoninja

wooooo
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 29 @ 8:50 AM ET
it always makes me laugh that you claim:

1. the leafs last year only lost because bernier missed a few games, and weren't in fact a terrible team (like everyone else knows they were).

2. claim that ottawa was a terrible team and only won because of anderson.....and yet you ignore the fact that they were able to keep winning despite losing a better goalie than the leafs lost.........

hmmmmmmm

i think there are holes in your theory.

- sensarmy_11


Some holes in your theories too.

The leafs and sens had nearly the same pts% with Anderson and bernier in net. If Anderson is a better goalie as you claim, wouldn't that imply that the leafs did in fact have the better team other than the respective teams goaltending?

I should point out as well that "the sens kept winning with their backup and the leafs didnt" and using that yo compare the two teams assumes the backups performed equally.

If anything, I wouldn't be making those statements now. What is transpiring now makes him look right.
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Dec 29 @ 12:28 PM ET
Some holes in your theories too.

The leafs and sens had nearly the same pts% with Anderson and bernier in net. If Anderson is a better goalie as you claim, wouldn't that imply that the leafs did in fact have the better team other than the respective teams goaltending?

I should point out as well that "the sens kept winning with their backup and the leafs didnt" and using that yo compare the two teams assumes the backups performed equally.

If anything, I wouldn't be making those statements now. What is transpiring now makes him look right.

- prock


Dude, we just saw one member of the Red Wings wander aimlessly through our zone, past 4 of our better players for something like 30-40 seconds before deciding to drop the puck off into the net and win in overtime. Any reason you'd like to give as to why the Leafs are currently in a better position than the Sens, well, I'd be inclined to agree.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 29 @ 12:31 PM ET
Dude, we just saw one member of the Red Wings wander aimlessly through our zone, past 4 of our better players for something like 30-40 seconds before deciding to drop the puck off into the net and win in overtime. Any reason you'd like to give as to why the Leafs are currently in a better position than the Sens, well, I'd be inclined to agree.
- Mr_Squeaks





edit - whoa. your post made me go look it up.



That Nyquist kid is good.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Dec 29 @ 12:39 PM ET
Dude, we just saw one member of the Red Wings wander aimlessly through our zone, past 4 of our better players for something like 30-40 seconds before deciding to drop the puck off into the net and win in overtime. Any reason you'd like to give as to why the Leafs are currently in a better position than the Sens, well, I'd be inclined to agree.
- Mr_Squeaks



Yes one play that made the defenders look bad, but the Senators carried the play for a better part of the game, and at the least kept pace for the rest.

But there are still the giveaways, that are still happening, that have to eliminated from their play.

I attribute this to some players thinking they need to contribute more offence, as the entire offence is down with the loss off a number of key players over the past couple of seasons. So chances are taken and the goal-tending can't always be there to bail them out.
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Dec 29 @ 1:46 PM ET
Yes one play that made the defenders look bad, but the Senators carried the play for a better part of the game, and at the least kept pace for the rest.

But there are still the giveaways, that are still happening, that have to eliminated from their play.

I attribute this to some players thinking they need to contribute more offence, as the entire offence is down with the loss off a number of key players over the past couple of seasons. So chances are taken and the goal-tending can't always be there to bail them out.

- Doppleganger


Oh, I admit I'm bitter about that play, especially since it's going to be one that makes us look stupid on all of the highlight shows, including the year in review and a few months down the road when they decide on the plays of the season. I, too, like a lot of things about our young core and their potential. But yeah, still bitter. I'll get over it, stick with me.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 29 @ 1:53 PM ET
Oh, I admit I'm bitter about that play, especially since it's going to be one that makes us look stupid on all of the highlight shows, including the year in review and a few months down the road when they decide on the plays of the season. I, too, like a lot of things about our young core and their potential. But yeah, still bitter. I'll get over it, stick with me.
- Mr_Squeaks



I’m not sure how you attribute chasing one guy around the rink as he does a few laps with the puck as trying to do too much offensively….
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Dec 29 @ 2:28 PM ET
I’m not sure how you attribute chasing one guy around the rink as he does a few laps with the puck as trying to do too much offensively….
- prock


I'm very sleepy today, but did I actually say he was trying to do too much offensively? I WAS thinking earlier that he was probably passing up a number of opportunities to give a teammate a nice GWG opportunity, but he won the game so no harm done (except to us)...

Our team isn't tanking, but I think our owner is...
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 29 @ 3:22 PM ET
I'm very sleepy today, but did I actually say he was trying to do too much offensively? I WAS thinking earlier that he was probably passing up a number of opportunities to give a teammate a nice GWG opportunity, but he won the game so no harm done (except to us)...

Our team isn't tanking, but I think our owner is...

- Mr_Squeaks


No, you didn’t. Dopps suggested that was a reason for giveaways.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Dec 30 @ 7:41 AM ET
No, you didn’t. Dopps suggested that was a reason for giveaways.
- prock



A giveaway last night lead directly to a Buffalo goal.



On another note, what can't teams from Ontario win a game in Florida?
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Dec 30 @ 8:03 AM ET
A giveaway last night lead directly to a Buffalo goal.

On another note, what can't teams from Ontario win a game in Florida?

- Doppleganger


I think it's the novelty of being in Florida - a more interesting place to be outside than, say, Newark. California swings are probably even tougher, in general, because of the weather AND the quality of opponent, but most teams know they have to raise their game for teams like the Kings and Ducks.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 30 @ 9:06 AM ET
leafs are really trending down this season again

http://www.theglobeandmai...e-charts/article22227447/

They are almost back to the crappy level as last season with shot differentials
I really thought we would see a decent step up from last season.

Hurry up and fire Carlyle so we can at least see if there is a difference with a new coach at all.. then start tearing things down if nothing changes
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Dec 30 @ 10:45 AM ET
leafs are really trending down this season again

http://www.theglobeandmai...e-charts/article22227447/

They are almost back to the crappy level as last season with shot differentials
I really thought we would see a decent step up from last season.

Hurry up and fire Carlyle so we can at least see if there is a difference with a new coach at all.. then start tearing things down if nothing changes

- senstroll



Who is the next coach?
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 30 @ 11:41 AM ET
Who is the next coach?
- Doppleganger


depends when the Firing happens
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Dec 30 @ 11:42 AM ET
depends when the Firing happens
- senstroll


But you seem to want the leaf coach gone yesterday? So and "interim coach" until the summer?
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 30 @ 12:11 PM ET
But you seem to want the leaf coach gone yesterday? So and "interim coach" until the summer?
- Doppleganger


I would go with Horacek until we see how Babcock plays out
I really didnt think he would be available at all.. starting to think he will test the open market now

The leafs are again giving up the most shot attempts per game

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Average number of shot attempts per team in a game is just under 56 by the way. Leafs conceding more than 70 over long stretch is awful.


Do the leafs just have to worst defensive team in the League or is there some systemic issues that can get these numbers down? even a drop to average would be a big improvement with the leafs goaltending
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Dec 30 @ 12:37 PM ET
I would go with Horacek until we see how Babcock plays out
I really didnt think he would be available at all.. starting to think he will test the open market now

The leafs are again giving up the most shot attempts per game


Do the leafs just have to worst defensive team in the League or is there some systemic issues that can get these numbers down? even a drop to average would be a big improvement with the leafs goaltending

- senstroll


I find the Babcock idea intriguing - I think with Detroit trending down and Toronto trending up, Babcock might see some things he really likes but would know how to coach differently. A champion-calibre coach at the helm could really change the Leafs fortunes...
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Dec 30 @ 7:32 PM ET
I find the Babcock idea intriguing - I think with Detroit trending down and Toronto trending up, Babcock might see some things he really likes but would know how to coach differently. A champion-calibre coach at the helm could really change the Leafs fortunes...
- Mr_Squeaks



But there would need to be a commitment to developing players in the AHL, like the Wings have been doing now for a couple of decades, and that would require a major change in philosophy for leaf management that would be under scrutiny for the media and the fan base who want Nylander in the leaf line immediately after the WJC conclude and no later than the beginning of next season.


As one (well known) pundit always puts it, when describing how the Wings develop players...."better to be over ripe than under done", and that would see Nylander play one maybe two seasons in the AHL before making the jump to the NHL,
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 30 @ 7:35 PM ET
I find the Babcock idea intriguing - I think with Detroit trending down and Toronto trending up, Babcock might see some things he really likes but would know how to coach differently. A champion-calibre coach at the helm could really change the Leafs fortunes...
- Mr_Squeaks

Detroit is trending up (93 points last year, on pace for 104 this year) and Toronto is doing not much of anything. They'll probably finish the same as they did last year.
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Dec 30 @ 10:32 PM ET
Detroit is trending up (93 points last year, on pace for 104 this year) and Toronto is doing not much of anything. They'll probably finish the same as they did last year.
- daeth


I'm talking big picture - they're not the team they were at their peak, and while they develop their assets as well as anyone, they'll take some time before they're really challenging for the cup. Although to be fair, the East tends to be fairly wide open, so who knows. Not me, that's for sure.

If Toronto wants to become elite, they're going to need a change in organizational style. Which is why I thought they brought Shanny in, and would push for a guy like Babcock.
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