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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 1 @ 7:28 AM ET
Lars Eller had a similar career path as Nylander. Playing with men while putting up good numers, yada yada yada... First Round pick (13th overall).

All of this to say, nothing guarantees that Nylander will be good at the NHL level.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 1 @ 7:39 AM ET
Lars Eller had a similar career path as Nylander. Playing with men while putting up good numers, yada yada yada... First Round pick (13th overall).

All of this to say, nothing guarantees that Nylander will be good at the NHL level.

- Pecafan Fan



Eller is taller and about 40 pounds heavier than Nylander, so that would lead me to believe Nylander is a few seasons away from proving if he has any staying power at the NHL level.
DoubleDown
Montreal Canadiens
Location: So far Shanahan has done nothing but weave a basket of glory for the Maple Leafs, QC
Joined: 07.28.2006

Oct 1 @ 9:06 AM ET
both teams current NHL teams are, at their very best, on the low end of mediocre. and neither team is particularly well set up for the future. this thread is stupid.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 1 @ 9:07 AM ET
Lars Eller had a similar career path as Nylander. Playing with men while putting up good numers, yada yada yada... First Round pick (13th overall).

All of this to say, nothing guarantees that Nylander will be good at the NHL level.

- Pecafan Fan

Eller didn't get to the SHL until after he was drafted... and played fewer games, with fewer results.


But don't let the facts get in the way.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 1 @ 9:08 AM ET
both teams current NHL teams are, at their very best, on the low end of mediocre. and neither team is particularly well set up for the future. this thread is stupid.
- DoubleDown

You know what it takes to shut it down.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 1 @ 9:13 AM ET
Eller didn't get to the SHL until after he was drafted... and played fewer games, with fewer results.


But don't let the facts get in the way.

- Feeling Glucky?


65 games for Nylander, 40pts.
81 games for Eller, 39pts.

Unless hockeydb isn't up-to-date, I'd say that's pretty similar.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 1 @ 9:16 AM ET
FYI the SEL is no longer correct, it was renamed the SHL in 2013, and still is not as good of a preparation ( for the NHL ) league as the AHL or the CHL.

- Doppleganger


SEL >>> CHL. Probably better than AHL as well.



So in Lazar's case he is ineligible to play in the AHL, and can only be sent to the CHL, whereas the rules for Nylander means he can play anywhere he wants, despite what the leafs may want for him. He only appeared in 22 games in the SHL last season, and managed 1 goal, so he still has a long way to go to prove anything in that league.


Yes we just told you Nylander can go back to play against men, whereas Lazar will be playing with kids again. Maybe he can crack top 20 in scoring this year? Or at least lead scoring on his team.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Oct 1 @ 9:16 AM ET
both teams current NHL teams are, at their very best, on the low end of mediocre. and neither team is particularly well set up for the future. this thread is stupid.
- DoubleDown

UHMM no
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 1 @ 9:22 AM ET
65 games for Nylander, 40pts.
81 games for Eller, 39pts.

Unless hockeydb isn't up-to-date, I'd say that's pretty similar.

- Pecafan Fan


Really? You're comparing the production of a 19 year old to a 17 year old. And youre combining two different leagues. Your comparison is ridiculous.

eller has always sucked.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 1 @ 9:25 AM ET
Really? You're comparing the production of a 19 year old to a 17 year old. And youre combining two different leagues. Your comparison is ridiculous.

eller has always sucked.

- prock


Well we could compare only the SEL numbers if you want.

But that's not the point. Nylander isn't a sure shot top line NHL player, wether you like it or not. Same goes for Lazar.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Oct 1 @ 9:26 AM ET
Well we could compare only the SEL numbers if you want.

But that's not the point. Nylander isn't a sure shot top line NHL player, wether you like it or not. Same goes for Lazar.

- Pecafan Fan
Most Sens fans agree with you ,he will top out as another fisher type imho
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 1 @ 9:36 AM ET
Most Sens fans agree with you ,he will top out as another fisher type imho

- top shelf 15


Which is fine. A good 2-way center is always nice to have.
SPIDEROCKSTAR
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: 🚺 à la toilette des filles
Joined: 08.08.2010

Oct 1 @ 9:36 AM ET
Leafs are too good to make it to the playoffs... They don't even want to bother making it in.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 1 @ 9:38 AM ET
Most Sens fans agree with you ,he will top out as another fisher type imho

- top shelf 15

Sounds about right
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 1 @ 9:44 AM ET
65 games for Nylander, 40pts.
81 games for Eller, 39pts.

Unless hockeydb isn't up-to-date, I'd say that's pretty similar.

- Pecafan Fan

I was talking about the year Eller did make the SEL/SHL. He only played 14 games and got 2 points.

and only managed 19 games and 8 points in the lower league... at age 18

Nylander played 22 games in the SHL, got 7 points, and played 43 games in the lower league, and got 33 points. As a 17 year old.

Numbers aren't even remotely close.



Didn't you see a problem with your argument, when you had to combine 2 years of Eller to make it look close to one year for Nylander?
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 1 @ 9:47 AM ET
I was talking about the year Eller did make the SEL/SHL. He only played 14 games and got 2 points.

and only managed 19 games and 8 points in the lower league... at age 18

Nylander played 22 games in the SHL, got 7 points, and played 43 games in the lower league, and got 33 points. As a 17 year old.

Numbers aren't even remotely close.

- Feeling Glucky?


My point is, you're never sure how a player will turn out in the long run.
So at this point, arguing that Nylander is a MUCH better player than Lazar is, well, dumb. Especially considering the number of times you've seen Nylander play. Which, by my guess, isn't too often.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 1 @ 9:52 AM ET
My point is, you're never sure how a player will turn out in the long run.
So at this point, arguing that Nylander is a MUCH better player than Lazar is, well, dumb. Especially considering the number of times you've seen Nylander play. Which, by my guess, isn't too often.

- Pecafan Fan

Which is why I defer to the scouts... who call Nylander possibly the most offensively gifted player in his draft, while describing Lazar as a 2nd/3rd line center.



End of the day, Nylander could bust, and Lazar could be a 2-way 2nd line center... and obviously be the better player. Or Nylander could be a top line player, while Lazar doesn't get a sniff of the NHL. They're both prospects, anything can happen. But I know I'd rather have a prospect with the potential to be offensively dominant than one who's the kinda guy you can usually find in UFA... which is why I say Nylander is a better prospect.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Oct 1 @ 9:54 AM ET
My point is, you're never sure how a player will turn out in the long run.
So at this point, arguing that Nylander is a MUCH better player than Lazar is, well, dumb. Especially considering the number of times you've seen Nylander play. Which, by my guess, isn't too often.

- Pecafan Fan

True, you don't know how they'll turn out. All you can do is look at progress and project.

Just a tip Pecafan fan, when you do so, with kids of that age, you should try use performance at the same age. Also, combining two levels of league to compare isn't a good idea.

If you jeep those things in mind you won't come across as unknowledgable as you do right now.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Oct 1 @ 9:55 AM ET
Which is fine. A good 2-way center is always nice to have.
- Pecafan Fan
Yep ,i only hope they play him as a center and not move him to wing
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 1 @ 10:00 AM ET
True, you don't know how they'll turn out. All you can do is look at progress and project.

Just a tip Pecafan fan, when you do so, with kids of that age, you should try use performance at the same age. Also, combining two levels of league to compare isn't a good idea.

If you jeep those things in mind you won't come across as unknowledgable as you do right now.

- prock


And you've seen him play how many times, exactly?


What I'm getting at here, is you're talking out of your (frank)ing ass, as you always do.




Remember when Price and Subban were busts? Those were good times, prock.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Oct 1 @ 10:02 AM ET
Which is why I defer to the scouts... who call Nylander possibly the most offensively gifted player in his draft, while describing Lazar as a 2nd/3rd line center.



End of the day, Nylander could bust, and Lazar could be a 2-way 2nd line center... and obviously be the better player. Or Nylander could be a top line player, while Lazar doesn't get a sniff of the NHL. They're both prospects, anything can happen. But I know I'd rather have a prospect with the potential to be offensively dominant than one who's the kinda guy you can usually find in UFA... which is why I say Nylander is a better prospect.

- Feeling Glucky?


The scouts who drafted Luke Schenn and Frédérik Gauthier in the 1st round?
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Oct 1 @ 10:04 AM ET
And you've seen him play how many times, exactly?


What I'm getting at here, is you're talking out of your (frank)ing ass, as you always do.




Remember when Price and Subban were busts? Those were good times, prock.

- Pecafan Fan




i also remember him arguing that luke schenn was going to be leaps and bounds better than erik karlsson
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 1 @ 10:06 AM ET
The scouts who drafted Luke Schenn and Frédérik Gauthier in the 1st round?
- Pecafan Fan

No, the ones who commented on him before he was drafted by the Leafs.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 1 @ 10:16 AM ET
65 games for Nylander, 40pts.
81 games for Eller, 39pts.

Unless hockeydb isn't up-to-date, I'd say that's pretty similar.

- Pecafan Fan


Only 22 for Nylander / 62 for Eller, games in the SHL (Formerly the SEL) all other games were in a lower rated NON elite league.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Oct 1 @ 10:20 AM ET
SEL >>> CHL. Probably better than AHL as well.




- prock


You totally missed the point. But that does not surprise me.


The SHL is NOT as good as preparing players for the NHL than the AHL or CHL.

Big ice vs Small ice......... No hitting vs hitting etc etc.

Nylander would be better served playing in the AHL than the SHL, if he has any aspirations of playing in the NHL.
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