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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 16 @ 10:12 AM ET
their production was similar.....kessel was a bit higher in goals, gionta a bit higher in points. when you consider their ages, then obviously kessel was the better asset. it's not like he was comparing a 90pt player to a 40pt player though.....he was comparing a 55pt player to a 50pt player.

so ridiculous, but not stupidly ridiculous. like i said, it looks more ridiculous lookign back, because we all know how awesome kessel is now, and how far gionta has fallen from his devils and early habs days.

- sensarmy_11



More goals, more pts. Kessel was the better player at that time... and only getting better.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Sep 16 @ 10:24 AM ET
I'm ducking out of this discussion. The Gionta/Kessel thing was boring four years ago, now it's just silly lol.

enjoy

before i exit i'll just leave this here

94% agree with me. The 6% who disagree are probably Habs fans.
- daeth

Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 12 grands is NOTHING in the art market.
Joined: 07.06.2007

Sep 16 @ 10:31 AM ET
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy Olympic hockey just as much as the next guy. I just dislike the price paid by the NHL to accommodate the Olympics.

I there was a way to separate the two, that would be perfect, but don't see a way.


- Doppleganger

i dont know why they just dont move it to the summer olympics. (frank) cares if ice is involved. the NBA doesnt disrupt its season to participate. seems to make perfect sense.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 16 @ 10:40 AM ET
I'm ducking out of this discussion. The Gionta/Kessel thing was boring four years ago, now it's just silly lol.

enjoy

before i exit i'll just leave this here

- daeth



sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 16 @ 10:44 AM ET
More goals, more pts. Kessel was the better player at that time... and only getting better.
- burn


that's my point......looks much worse now, knowing what he became, then it did then.

it's like the argument that sens and leafs fans used to have about karlsson vs schenn.

karlsson had more pts, and was the better player, but lots of leafs fans (back in the day) argued that schenn was the same calibre and would become a better player. IMO, it was ridiculous then (always felt schenn was painfully overrated), but it's even worse when you look at it in hindsight.


either way, getting back to the point of this thread..........................Dops is crazy and doesn't like Islamic people. i think that was the subject, right?
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Sep 16 @ 11:28 AM ET
I'm genuinely shocked that the Leafs at one point owned the pick that turned into Gibson.

(frank)

- daeth


The Leafs issue isn't goaltending anyways. There are other players around that spot that could have been picked.

Bernier is a stud.

I know you don't think much of Bernier, but before the Leafs traded for him he was one of, if not the most highly touted young goalie in the NHL. I heard for years in LA what a future star he was. Last season he posted a .923 save % facing the most shots in the entire NHL.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Sep 16 @ 11:30 AM ET
RogerRoepper

SpOOnz

sens4life_


hindsight is awesome.

- sensarmy_11


Other people have pointed this out, but why are you bringing up an old post where I was 100% right? Kaberle actually got more for the Leafs than I said. Most thought he'd fetch a second rounder at the most (Including "Insiders" like Dreger)
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 16 @ 11:33 AM ET
Other people have pointed this out, but why are you bringing up an old post where I was 100% right? Kaberle actually got more for the Leafs than I said. Most thought he'd fetch a second rounder at the most (Including "Insiders" like Dreger)
- RogerRoeper


please read my other posts. i wasn't saying you were wrong then......i was laughing at who were "core pieces" and what players were valued at then, vs where those same players are now.

i was reading the first few pages of the thread, and found it funny how much had changed with the two teams since then.

i obviously didn't articulate my point very well.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Sep 16 @ 11:35 AM ET
please read my other posts. i wasn't saying you were wrong then......i was laughing at who were "core pieces" and what players were valued at then, vs where those same players are now.

i obviously didn't articulate my point very well.

- sensarmy_11


Ok gotcha. It's just at the time, posters like myself were taking a lot of heat for claiming he was worth at least a first rounder. That's where my hindsight got confused with your statement.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 16 @ 11:39 AM ET
Ok gotcha. It's just at the time, posters like myself were taking a lot of heat for claiming he was worth at least a first rounder. That's where my hindsight got confused with your statement.
- RogerRoeper


i just found it funny that at the time:

- kaberle was a very good player, got a great return on a trade, and now can't even get a PTO

- melnyk had billions and money was no issue for this team, now he's one of the poorest penny pinchign owners in the league

- schenn was supposed to be the next big thing on the blue line, now he's an after thought in philly

- sens just extended heatley and spezza, and were building a team around them, and we all know how that ended.

i just thought it was funny what people were arguing about then, and how things have turned out.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Sep 16 @ 11:43 AM ET
Schenn was 5th overall so everyone thought he'd be something. But the trick is he was the 4th D-Man taken.

I'm so thankful they took Schenn though. What a return for him. a 2nd overall player on a fantastic contract. And a lot of players taken around Schenn were bigger busts also,.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 16 @ 11:57 AM ET
Schenn was 5th overall so everyone thought he'd be something. But the trick is he was the 4th D-Man taken.

I'm so thankful they took Schenn though. What a return for him. a 2nd overall player on a fantastic contract. And a lot of players taken around Schenn were bigger busts also,.

- RogerRoeper


the only player in teh top 10 who IMO was a bigger bust was filatov.

obviously a few outside the top 10 who didn't pan out, but it always seems to be more of a crap shoot when you get there.

karlsson at 15 still makes me smile (scary to think that ottawa got that pick from nashville.....karlsson/weber pairing )
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Sep 16 @ 11:58 AM ET
the only player in teh top 10 who IMO was a bigger bust was filatov.

obviously a few outside the top 10 who didn't pan out, but it always seems to be more of a crap shoot when you get there.

karlsson at 15 still makes me smile (scary to think that ottawa got that pick from nashville.....karlsson/weber pairing )

- sensarmy_11



That's actually who Leaf fans wanted.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 16 @ 1:19 PM ET
That's actually who Leaf fans wanted.
- RogerRoeper


ottawa gave up a 3rd rd pick for him, and it was still a brutal trade.
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Sep 16 @ 1:44 PM ET
The Leafs issue isn't goaltending anyways. There are other players around that spot that could have been picked.

Bernier is a stud.

I know you don't think much of Bernier, but before the Leafs traded for him he was one of, if not the most highly touted young goalie in the NHL. I heard for years in LA what a future star he was. Last season he posted a .923 save % facing the most shots in the entire NHL.

- RogerRoeper

http://www.nhl.com/ice/pl...sAgainst&viewName=summary

oh
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Sep 16 @ 1:54 PM ET
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLGAGALL&sort=shotsAgainst&viewName=summary

oh

- golfingsince


he faced teh most shots per game (32.4), not total shots.....just ahead of ryan miller (31.9) and craig anderson (31.7)
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Sep 16 @ 1:56 PM ET
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLGAGALL&sort=shotsAgainst&viewName=summary

oh

- golfingsince

my guess is he meant per game. Varly faced 226 more shots in 8 more games, so less per game.
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Sep 16 @ 4:08 PM ET
he faced teh most shots per game (32.4), not total shots.....just ahead of ryan miller (31.9) and craig anderson (31.7)
- sensarmy_11


So what you're saying is he didn't have the workload that was implied.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 16 @ 6:01 PM ET
i dont know why they just dont move it to the summer olympics. (frank) cares if ice is involved. the NBA doesnt disrupt its season to participate. seems to make perfect sense.
- Crimsoninja




I brought up this exact point back in January, and every thought it was stupid, because Brazil would not have an ice rink. They built a huge Soccer stadium in the middle of the rainforest, but a couple ice rinks..........

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hread.php?thread_id=98227
golfingsince
Location: The losers tonight are the people.-QP
Joined: 11.30.2011

Sep 16 @ 7:51 PM ET
I brought up this exact point back in January, and every thought it was stupid, because Brazil would not have an ice rink. They built a huge Soccer stadium in the middle of the rainforest, but a couple ice rinks..........

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hread.php?thread_id=98227

- Doppleganger


I for one am rather surprised at the reaction of the HB commoners. Usually they all agree with you.
Nucker101
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All right everyone, listen up
Joined: 09.26.2010

Sep 16 @ 7:59 PM ET
I brought up this exact point back in January, and every thought it was stupid, because Brazil would not have an ice rink. They built a huge Soccer stadium in the middle of the rainforest, but a couple ice rinks..........

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hread.php?thread_id=98227

- Doppleganger


Strongly agree.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Sep 16 @ 9:36 PM ET
Hockey is a winter sport. You can't move it to the summer Olympics.

Just have the World Cup of Hockey every four years and hold it in the offseason. If the NHLPA pushes for the 2018 Olympics I can't see the NHL going against it though. It's not really worth creating bad blood over something like that I'd imagine.

As a fan the World Cup of Hockey is just as good as the Olympics. I would have no issue with them going with that format over the Olympics.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Sep 17 @ 9:20 AM ET
Hockey is a winter sport. You can't move it to the summer Olympics.

Just have the World Cup of Hockey every four years and hold it in the offseason. If the NHLPA pushes for the 2018 Olympics I can't see the NHL going against it though. It's not really worth creating bad blood over something like that I'd imagine.

As a fan the World Cup of Hockey is just as good as the Olympics. I would have no issue with them going with that format over the Olympics.

- daeth


Bottom line is, if the players want to participate, I don't see why the NHL wouldn't let them go.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 17 @ 10:42 AM ET
Bottom line is, if the players want to participate, I don't see why the NHL wouldn't let them go.
- Pecafan Fan



If it does NOT benefit the NHL, then they, as their employer can do what's in the best interest of the NHL.

Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Sep 17 @ 11:12 AM ET
If it does NOT benefit the NHL, then they, as their employer can do what's in the best interest of the NHL.
- Doppleganger


What if the Finns, Swedes, Russians, Tcheks etc leave the league because they believe international events are important?

Would that be to the benefit of the NHL?
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