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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 14 @ 9:20 AM ET

If you look at the Clarkson, Phaneuf and Kessel deals, the problem is not the money it is the term.


- spatso


throw in Lupul and JVR contracts too.


The only two I see as trade-able (attractive to other teams) are Kessel and JVR, but doubt they will be dealt.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:21 AM ET
One team collapsed after their starter got injured.

The other was a nothing team all season, despite being healthy, and trading for rentals... and has an owner who sees the team as his piggy bank, rather than something to build. I guess getting revenue sharing cheques from the NHL is better than risking money to improve the team.

No pick, very little to be envious of on the main roster(save for their 4th forward defenseman, with less defensive awareness than Kessel), and an owner who won't spend on the team. There really isn't a way to compare Ottawa to a Toronto team other than the Marlies... except, you know, unlike both our NHL teams, they're doing well.

- Feeling Glucky?


yes, yes.....keep blaming the colapse on bernier's injury.

i hope management does the same thing, and you guys start next year with the same team.

and the leafs have SOOO much to be envious of? like perhaps the worst defence in the NHL, a handful of TERRIBLE and untradable contracts, little to no forward depth.

man, am i ever envious of your team.

it's nice that your team has money.....it's too bad nobody knows how to spend it.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:22 AM ET
throw in Lupul and JVR contracts too.


The only two I see as trade-able (attractive to other teams) are Kessel and JVR, but doubt they will be dealt.

- Doppleganger


come on man.........don't be like prock

that contract is great.

there's a lot to laugh at with the leafs..........that's not one of those things.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 14 @ 9:22 AM ET
Do you feel that if the Sens are in the same position next year, as they were this year, at the deadline, Melnyk will approve a trade, or let bobby Ryan go to free agency in order to keep him for the stretch run at a futile attempt to collect playoff revenue?
- prock



You're so dumb.

Melnyk has nothing to do with Hockey decisions (trades) and has stated so many times.

Murray will choose what to do with Ryan, no one else.


Happy trolling!
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:24 AM ET
You're so dumb.

Melnyk has nothing to do with Hockey decisions (trades) and has stated so many times.

Murray will choose what to do with Ryan, no one else.


Happy trolling!

- Doppleganger


Do you think Melnyk had nothing to do with Alfredsson walking? Murray decided to let him go himself?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:24 AM ET
yes, yes.....keep blaming the colapse on bernier's injury.

i hope management does the same thing, and you guys start next year with the same team.

and the leafs have SOOO much to be envious of? like perhaps the worst defence in the NHL, a handful of TERRIBLE and untradable contracts, little to no forward depth.

man, am i ever envious of your team.

it's nice that your team has money.....it's too bad nobody knows how to spend it.

- sensarmy_11



Leafs have a bad contract they'd like to get out of, no denying that.

But Clarkson's 5.25 isn't going to hold back the team too much. Sucks that it's so long, but every year the cap rises, that cap hit will represent a smaller and smaller percentage of the total cap that Toronto, unlike Ottawa, will spend to.

And the thing is, as bad as our defense looks... yours is still worse.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:25 AM ET
You're so dumb.

Melnyk has nothing to do with Hockey decisions (trades) and has stated so many times.

Murray will choose what to do with Ryan, no one else.


Happy trolling!

- Doppleganger

so the guy that pays the contracts doesn't have a say in the contracts?

Interesting.
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:27 AM ET
Leafs have a bad contract they'd like to get out of, no denying that.

But Clarkson's 5.25 isn't going to hold back the team too much. Sucks that it's so long, but every year the cap rises, that cap hit will represent a smaller and smaller percentage of the total cap that Toronto, unlike Ottawa, will spend to.

And the thing is, as bad as our defense looks... yours is still worse.

- Feeling Glucky?


It's an awful deal.


Awful.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:27 AM ET
Do you feel that if the Sens are in the same position next year, as they were this year, at the deadline, Melnyk will approve a trade, or let bobby Ryan go to free agency in order to keep him for the stretch run at a futile attempt to collect playoff revenue?
- prock


No. Melnyk is all about the money. He is robbing the Senators piggy bank to support his other ventures. I think he is backed into a corner. He wants a coowner but nobody wants to partner with him. He will be forced to sell probably sooner than later (but, I was certain he would sell last summer). So he will do nothing that undermines the asset pool of the Senators because of the impact it would have on a possible sale price. My guess, Ryan will be a business decision based on what is most attractive to a prospective new owner. Potential buyers intuitively know that top dollar ($8m), long term contracts are not good business unless you are talking of a legitimate superstar.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:29 AM ET
Leafs have a bad contract they'd like to get out of, no denying that.

But Clarkson's 5.25 isn't going to hold back the team too much. Sucks that it's so long, but every year the cap rises, that cap hit will represent a smaller and smaller percentage of the total cap that Toronto, unlike Ottawa, will spend to.

And the thing is, as bad as our defense looks... yours is still worse. :aah:

- Feeling Glucky?


not even close

our team gave up only 9 more goals, despite having a significantly worse sv%

your defence is HISTORICALLY bad
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:31 AM ET
mc79hockey ‏@mc79hockey
This is a table about how Anaheim's Corsi% in seven game states changed from Carlyle to Boudreau. pic.twitter.com/b45oGkkCsK

mc79hockey ‏@mc79hockey
Basically, they fired Carlyle and a stat that doesn't usually move much got better in every single way possible.





Fire Carlyle
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:32 AM ET
It's an awful deal.


Awful.

- Pecafan Fan

no doubt. If there was another compliance buyout available, they'd use it on him.

And I doubt any team is going to take it.

What I'm saying though, is it's not crippling for a team that can spend to the cap.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 14 @ 9:33 AM ET
One team collapsed after their starter got injured.

The other was a nothing team all season, despite being healthy, and trading for rentals... and has an owner who sees the team as his piggy bank, rather than something to build. I guess getting revenue sharing cheques from the NHL is better than risking money to improve the team.

No pick, very little to be envious of on the main roster(save for their 4th forward defenseman, with less defensive awareness than Kessel), and an owner who won't spend on the team. There really isn't a way to compare Ottawa to a Toronto team other than the Marlies... except, you know, unlike both our NHL teams, they're doing well.

- Feeling Glucky?




It is strong with you, the Spin.

Spezza had back surgery over the summer, and was playing at less than 100% for at least half the season, and even took time off while recovering from it. Karlsson is still recovering from his surgery and also played the entire season at less than 100%, and the same can be said for Michalek who also had off season surgery on his knee.

Oh don't forget Ryan, who suffered an injury (requiring surgery) in mid November and played with it until the latter part of the season.



You're just grasping at straws now that the leafs ended up, looking up, at the Senators in the standings.

And blaming an injured, unproven starter as the reason the leafs choked away their lofty place (third in conference) with only 24 game to go in the season, is just ridiculous, if you actually believe that.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 14 @ 9:33 AM ET
Do you think Melnyk had nothing to do with Alfredsson walking? Murray decided to let him go himself?
- prock



Melnyk has nothing to do with Hockey decisions (trades) and has stated so many times.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:35 AM ET
no doubt. If there was another compliance buyout available, they'd use it on him.

And I doubt any team is going to take it.

What I'm saying though, is it's not crippling for a team that can spend to the cap.

- Feeling Glucky?


it is when you add 7 mil for phaneuf, 4 for gleason, 5.25 for lupul, etc......and all (except gleason) with relatively significant term left.

the leafs deals wouldn't be SOOO bad, except that they're all so long.

leafs have almost a third of thier cap invested in phaneuf, clarkson, lupul, and gleason, for the next 2-3 years.

and that doesn't even include what they might give bolland this offseason.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:37 AM ET
Melnyk has nothing to do with Hockey decisions (trades) and has stated so many times.
- Doppleganger


come on man..........you can't be that naive.

melnyk also stated that the team loses 30 million a year, while at the same time stating that they didn't need to make the playoffs to break even.

melnyk has his paws all over hockey ops
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:41 AM ET
Melnyk has nothing to do with Hockey decisions (trades) and has stated so many times.
- Doppleganger


Melnyk is a very meddling owner. He also is very, very cheap.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:42 AM ET
it is when you add 7 mil for phaneuf, 4 for gleason, 5.25 for lupul, etc......and all (except gleason) with relatively significant term left.

the leafs deals wouldn't be SOOO bad, except that they're all so long.

leafs have almost a third of thier cap invested in phaneuf, clarkson, lupul, and gleason, for the next 2-3 years.

and that doesn't even include what they might give bolland this offseason.

- sensarmy_11


still convinced he's getting 7-8 years from the Leafs eh.

I'll go as far to say that Bolland won't get more than 3 years on the open market.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:43 AM ET
throw in Lupul and JVR contracts too.


The only two I see as trade-able (attractive to other teams) are Kessel and JVR, but doubt they will be dealt.

- Doppleganger


LOL. 4.25 million per through his prime years is bad? How exactly? Teams will line-up to take JVR off their hands.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:44 AM ET
still convinced he's getting 7-8 years from the Leafs eh.

I'll go as far to say that Bolland won't get more than 3 years on the open market.

- RogerRoeper


who knows what he's gonna get...........that's why i said might.

but we all know how the leafs like to overpay for those 3rd liners.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:46 AM ET
except that he's not a 40 goal scorer.........and bergeron is 10 times the overall player kessel is. and only makes 6.5 mil
- sensarmy_11


Silly hyperbole.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:46 AM ET
it is when you add 7 mil for phaneuf, 4 for gleason, 5.25 for lupul, etc......and all (except gleason) with relatively significant term left.

the leafs deals wouldn't be SOOO bad, except that they're all so long.

leafs have almost a third of thier cap invested in phaneuf, clarkson, lupul, and gleason, for the next 2-3 years.

and that doesn't even include what they might give bolland this offseason.

- sensarmy_11

7 Mil for Phaneuf is fine. Won't be able to acquire a d-man of his quality for a cheaper contract, not without giving up a boat-load of assets to do so.

Lupul's fine. Off year, no biggie. Prior two seasons he was PPG.

Gleason, while not a great contract, isn't long term, and is a useful player. No big deal.

If the Leafs re-sign Bolland, it won't be for the 5M/8 year contract he supposedly wants. I doubt he's back.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:46 AM ET
sure he is prock, sure he is.

like i said, fat little one-dimensional winger....who crumbles under pressure.

BRUTALLY overpaid.

- sensarmy_11


You mean the guy who has 13 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games crumbles under pressure?

Kessel has more points than any player the last 3 years. How is he overpaid? Rick Nash gets the same salary.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:47 AM ET
Silly hyperbole.
- RogerRoeper


yeah, completely silly

sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:49 AM ET
You mean the guy who has 13 goals, 21 points in 22 playoff games crumbles under pressure?

Kessel has more points than any player the last 3 years. How is he overpaid? Rick Nash gets the same salary.

- RogerRoeper


your comparison to show he isnt' overpaid is RICK NASH

remind me again how he produced in the stretch run this year..........
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