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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Apr 14 @ 8:09 AM ET
he would have been one of only 4 to do it twice by the age of 23

the other 3.....Orr, Coffey, Potvin

but totally overpaid

- sensarmy_11
Yep ,his defense will come around again and he will win the norris
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 8:14 AM ET
Nope, these guys being overpaid is nothing new, you're right about that.
- prock


says the fan of the team who will be paying a short, fat, one-dimensional winger 8 million for the next 8 years.

he sure earned his paycheque the last 20 games.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 14 @ 8:26 AM ET
says the fan of the team who will be paying a short, fat, one-dimensional winger 8 million for the next 8 years.

he sure earned his paycheque the last 20 games.

- sensarmy_11



You mean Kessel? He's not that one dimensional. Elite goalscorer, excellent playmaker, and better defensively than Erik Karlsson.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 8:29 AM ET
You mean Kessel? He's not that one dimensional. Elite goalscorer, excellent playmaker, and better defensively than Erik Karlsson.
- prock


sure he is prock, sure he is.

like i said, fat little one-dimensional winger....who crumbles under pressure.

BRUTALLY overpaid.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 8:43 AM ET
sure he is prock, sure he is.

like i said, fat little one-dimensional winger....who crumbles under pressure.

BRUTALLY overpaid.

- sensarmy_11


Kessle is being paid market value for a 40 goal scorer. it is the going rate. Probably what the Senators will need to pay Bobby Ryan for eight years. Not sure it is the best way to build a team for the long term. Look at Boston. Bergeron is their top scorer with 30 goals but he is way down on the list of scoring leaders. But Boston seems happy to build around a wider base of team scoring and avoids the superstar salary (Chara excepted).
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Apr 14 @ 8:46 AM ET
Kessle is being paid market value for a 40 goal scorer. it is the going rate. Probably what the Senators will need to pay Bobby Ryan for eight years. Not sure it is the best way to build a team for the long term. Look at Boston. Bergeron is their top scorer with 30 goals but he is way down on the list of scoring leaders. But Boston seems happy to build around a wider base of team scoring and avoids the superstar salary (Chara excepted).
- spatso



Except he's not.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 8:48 AM ET
Kessle is being paid market value for a 40 goal scorer. it is the going rate. Probably what the Senators will need to pay Bobby Ryan for eight years. Not sure it is the best way to build a team for the long term. Look at Boston. Bergeron is their top scorer with 30 goals but he is way down on the list of scoring leaders. But Boston seems happy to build around a wider base of team scoring and avoids the superstar salary (Chara excepted).
- spatso


except that he's not a 40 goal scorer.........and bergeron is 10 times the overall player kessel is. and only makes 6.5 mil

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 14 @ 8:49 AM ET
so...

true standings update?

- Schenn-Sational!



BOSTON .713
TAMPA BAY .616
MONTREAL .610
DETROIT .567

OTTAWA .537
toronto .512
BUFFALO .317
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 8:52 AM ET
Except he's not.
- Pecafan Fan


He is actrually better than many 40 goal scorers. Put him with a gifted #1 center and he would likely score 50. Having said that I was surprised by how effective and easily Karlsson took away Kessel's speed Saturday night.


senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 14 @ 8:55 AM ET
you guys hearing any rumours about who the possible replacement is gonna be..........asssuming carlyle is fired, which most seem to think is a foregone conclusion.
- sensarmy_11


not really yet. I cant see how Carlyle is kept. the team has failed miserably twice under his coaching.

either you identify his system is terrible and causing these terrible shot differentials and possession numbers or its the players, and you need to clean house and start over. Carlyle is not the coach for a rebuild. So whats the point in keeping him.

if Nonis, loisellse and Poulin along with Carlyle are kept its a disaster on top of a disaster season. Prepare for another wasted season in that case.

sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 8:57 AM ET
He is actrually better than many 40 goal scorers. Put him with a gifted #1 center and he would likely score 50. Having said that I was surprised by how effective and easily Karlsson took away Kessel's speed Saturday night.
- spatso


well most leaf fans will scream until they're blue in the face, proclaiming that bozak is a legit #1 center.....so he has no excuse.

great players are supposed to make others great....not need great players to elevate thier own game.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 8:58 AM ET
BOSTON .713
TAMPA BAY .616
MONTREAL .610
DETROIT .567

OTTAWA .537
toronto .512
BUFFALO .317

- Doppleganger


Nothing to get excited about. Senators had a bad year. Leafs had a painful year. Senators have great young talent but a nightmare owner. Leafs look to be in serious trouble next year. They have some really bad contracts and they acted prematurely last year in using both their compliance buy outs.

Signing of Shanahan and possible firing of Carlyle merely distracts from the underlying problem. Leafs do not offer any strong hope for improvement next year.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 8:59 AM ET
not really yet. I cant see how Carlyle is kept. the team has failed miserably twice under his coaching.

either you identify his system is terrible and causing these terrible shot differentials and possession numbers or its the players, and you need to clean house and start over. Carlyle is not the coach for a rebuild. So whats the point in keeping him.

if Nonis, loisellse and Poulin along with Carlyle are kept its a disaster on top of a disaster season. Prepare for another wasted season in that case.

- senstroll


i could see maybe giving nonis another chance......maybe. but i agree that carlyle has to go. and poulin....MAN, that guy is possibly the dumbest person working in hockey.

i mean, he's like steve simmons or damien cox kind of dumb.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:01 AM ET
Kessle is being paid market value for a 40 goal scorer. it is the going rate. Probably what the Senators will need to pay Bobby Ryan for eight years. Not sure it is the best way to build a team for the long term. Look at Boston. Bergeron is their top scorer with 30 goals but he is way down on the list of scoring leaders. But Boston seems happy to build around a wider base of team scoring and avoids the superstar salary (Chara excepted).
- spatso



While I can certainly understand that it might require a massive premium to convince a player to stay with a franchise like the Sens in a city like Ottawa, do you really think it would require paying the fourth best winger of any Ontario team the equivalent of the best winger?
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:03 AM ET
well most leaf fans will scream until they're blue in the face, proclaiming that bozak is a legit #1 center.....so he has no excuse.

great players are supposed to make others great....not need great players to elevate thier own game.

- sensarmy_11




Bozak is a nice player and would be a great fit on many teams as a #2. But he does not have the offensive gift of a talented #1. A team like Colorado has as many as 3 (maybe 4) guys who can play #1. I think a lot of teams will be wanting to talk to them over the summer.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 14 @ 9:05 AM ET

So.... WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
- Feeling Glucky?


One word answer:
WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?

- Feeling Glucky?


Dopps, I understand math isn't your strong suite, but I'm sure you understand what one means.

So, one word answer: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?

- Feeling Glucky?



Yea, but WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
- Feeling Glucky?



Isn't it annoying when you say that, but the poster keeps posting the same thing over and over?


WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?

- Feeling Glucky?






Okay, The Senators.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:05 AM ET
BOSTON .713
TAMPA BAY .616
MONTREAL .610
DETROIT .567

OTTAWA .537
toronto .512
BUFFALO .317

- Doppleganger

Toronto has a better pick to Ottawa's non-pick.

Excellent. Clearly Toronto is in a better position
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:06 AM ET
Okay, The Senators.
- Doppleganger

Oh, so you were too much of a coward, weakling, etc. to answer earlier, eh?
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:06 AM ET
While I can certainly understand that it might require a massive premium to convince a player to stay with a franchise like the Sens in a city like Ottawa, do you really think it would require paying the fourth best winger of any Ontario team the equivalent of the best winger?
- prock




even ville leino's contract isn't this bad
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 14 @ 9:08 AM ET
Toronto has a better pick to Ottawa's non-pick.

Excellent. Clearly Toronto is in a better position

- Feeling Glucky?


yeah, i'm sure losing out on the 12th pick in this draft is going to cripple the organization moving forward.

I hear Haydn Fleury is supposed to be the next Jonathan Toews
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 14 @ 9:11 AM ET
Most of the media are expecting significant changes to the Leaf roster and behind the bench. I do not expect a lot of change. My guess is they will try to package Phaneuf but will not find a dance paertner.
- spatso



He and his long term cap unfriendly contract is just one, of a few on the leafs, that are un-tradable because Mike Millbury is no longer a GM in the NHL
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:12 AM ET
While I can certainly understand that it might require a massive premium to convince a player to stay with a franchise like the Sens in a city like Ottawa, do you really think it would require paying the fourth best winger of any Ontario team the equivalent of the best winger?
- prock


It is all about leverage and Ryan has that control right now. Ottawa on the other hand controls the process and has 1 year left on his currentr deal and they are the only ones who can offer 8 years under the new CBA. So, they either have to pay him big bucks or trade him. I think they should trade him. He is a good player but not worthy of $8m. But it is the 8 years that is more problematic.

If you look at the Clarkson, Phaneuf and Kessel deals, the problem is not the money it is the term.

I believe the Senators will deal Spezza this summer and they will get a very good return. He has only one year left on his deal at $4m of actual dollars ($7m cap). More and more people are going to look at the Boston model and try to compress the top end salary on your team.
senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:13 AM ET
i could see maybe giving nonis another chance......maybe. but i agree that carlyle has to go. and poulin....MAN, that guy is possibly the dumbest person working in hockey.

i mean, he's like steve simmons or damien cox kind of dumb.

- sensarmy_11


agree 100%.. all those guys talk like its the 80's still .. so out of touch with what happening in the NHL today
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 14 @ 9:14 AM ET
It is all about leverage and Ryan has that control right now. Ottawa on the other hand controls the process and has 1 year left on his currentr deal and they are the only ones who can offer 8 years under the new CBA. So, they either have to pay him big bucks or trade him. I think they should trade him. He is a good player but not worthy of $8m. But it is the 8 years that is more problematic.

If you look at the Clarkson, Phaneuf and Kessel deals, the problem is not the money it is the term.

I believe the Senators will deal Spezza this summer and they will get a very good return. He has only one year left on his deal at $4m of actual dollars ($7m cap). More and more people are going to look at the Boston model and try to compress the top end salary on your team.

- spatso


Do you feel that if the Sens are in the same position next year, as they were this year, at the deadline, Melnyk will approve a trade, or let bobby Ryan go to free agency in order to keep him for the stretch run at a futile attempt to collect playoff revenue?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 14 @ 9:17 AM ET
yeah, i'm sure losing out on the 12th pick in this draft is going to cripple the organization moving forward.

I hear Haydn Fleury is supposed to be the next Jonathan Toews

- sensarmy_11

One team collapsed after their starter got injured.

The other was a nothing team all season, despite being healthy, and trading for rentals... and has an owner who sees the team as his piggy bank, rather than something to build. I guess getting revenue sharing cheques from the NHL is better than risking money to improve the team.

No pick, very little to be envious of on the main roster(save for their 4th forward defenseman, with less defensive awareness than Kessel), and an owner who won't spend on the team. There really isn't a way to compare Ottawa to a Toronto team other than the Marlies... except, you know, unlike both our NHL teams, they're doing well.
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