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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Dec 12 @ 7:57 PM ET

- daeth



senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 12 @ 8:28 PM ET
Wow I knew the sens were not a good team when the season started.. But this is fantastic

systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Dec 12 @ 8:52 PM ET

- daeth



systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Dec 12 @ 8:53 PM ET
Wow I knew the sens were not a good team when the season started.. But this is fantastic
- senstroll


cant wait to see d'oops put on the pitiful brave face as if hes not fazed. probably post a random link or stat.
Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the arena with no parking
Joined: 07.06.2007

Dec 13 @ 12:33 AM ET
Leafs looked terrible


*didnt watch the game*
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: when it's a 3 taco-bell town, maybe they'll be ready, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Dec 13 @ 7:38 AM ET
Leafs looked terrible


*didnt watch the game*

- Crimsoninja

they were ungood
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Dec 13 @ 8:00 AM ET
Wow I knew the sens were not a good team when the season started.. But this is fantastic
- senstroll



One goal away from the finals... They must have been a great team.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Dec 13 @ 8:15 AM ET
One goal away from the finals... They must have been a great team.
- bixll


the ottawa senators are trash in every single way.

garbage team.
tries to claim other franchises history
never wins anything
captains are mostly idiots (alfredsson, spezza, Yashin)
owner is an idiot
no fans (tarp over seats)
the Trojan guy
burrows
onlybteam in NHL history to get 5 consecutive top 3 picks. still can't win.
trash team currently with at least 5 years of rebuilding, and without fans and revenue they may end up moving

don't get me started on that city.

they're such an embarrassment
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Dec 13 @ 8:51 AM ET
the ottawa senators are trash in every single way.

garbage team.
tries to claim other franchises history
never wins anything
captains are mostly idiots (alfredsson, spezza, Yashin)
owner is an idiot
no fans (tarp over seats)
the Trojan guy
burrows
onlybteam in NHL history to get 5 consecutive top 3 picks. still can't win.
trash team currently with at least 5 years of rebuilding, and without fans and revenue they may end up moving

don't get me started on that city.

they're such an embarrassment

- prock



Quebec Senators...
senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 13 @ 9:23 AM ET
they were ungood
- daeth


The trend the last couple weeks is not good. Getting outshot but winning.
We have seen the Leafs do that before and it all eventually comes crashing down

From what I read the last few days, Babs made some changes after the start..I guess he didnt like way they were playing (but scoring a ton).

I am not sure I like this better.

Mike Kelly keeps trotting out these stats..which I am not sure I agree with his analysis. the data he uses is not public..so take what you will from it

Mike Kelly‏Verified account @MikeKellyNHL
Maple Leafs were 7-5-0 playing a rush-oriented system. Since Babcock switched to a heavier dump & chase style, 13-5-1. More total shots against but fewer high-quality shots against, save % much better. Goaltending has been outstanding.


Mike Kelly‏Verified account @MikeKellyNHL
Certainly. However, no question dump and chase attack has helped limit quality of the chances going against them - which should / has improved save % to a point.


Mike Kelly‏Verified account @MikeKellyNHL
Tougher to create them but most rush teams also give up a lot on the rush.....about finding a balance. Leafs were as high-event as they come rushing the puck. For now, Babcock going a different route.


Mike Kelly‏Verified account @MikeKellyNHL
I use Corsi as often as plus / minus to evaluate.....which is never.


senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 13 @ 10:16 AM ET
Shawn Simpson‏ @TSNSimmer
The Sens have had 7 coaches in 10 years. Can they play that card again?


thats seems not optimal
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: Brian Boyle is better than Patrick Marleau - Dopps, SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Dec 13 @ 10:25 AM ET
thats seems not optimal
- senstroll


Jeff Skinner's next goal will give him as many in the last 3 years as Bobby Ryan has scored in his entire time as an Ottawa Senator.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Dec 13 @ 1:02 PM ET
The trend the last couple weeks is not good. Getting outshot but winning.
We have seen the Leafs do that before and it all eventually comes crashing down

From what I read the last few days, Babs made some changes after the start..I guess he didnt like way they were playing (but scoring a ton).

I am not sure I like this better.

Mike Kelly keeps trotting out these stats..which I am not sure I agree with his analysis. the data he uses is not public..so take what you will from it

- senstroll

They do limit high danger scoring chances, which does make And0rs0n’s job easier... but they do also rely on him very heavily... especially when polak is on the ice.

I think Babcock’s style is more sustainable than the run and gun they were employing earlier, but the team is still transitioning over to a new style.

Their current “getting outshot but winning” differs from Carlyle/Boucher’s style, because they limit those high percentage plays against, but are top of the league in high % scoring chances.

It would be nice to see the possession improve. I think they’re still middle of the pack for score adjusted possession, so if they regress, it won’t be far.
senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 13 @ 1:09 PM ET
They do limit high danger scoring chances, which does make And0rs0n’s job easier... but they do also rely on him very heavily... especially when polak is on the ice.

I think Babcock’s style is more sustainable than the run and gun they were employing earlier, but the team is still transitioning over to a new style.

Their current “getting outshot but winning” differs from Carlyle/Boucher’s style, because they limit those high percentage plays against, but are top of the league in high % scoring chances.

It would be nice to see the possession improve. I think they’re still middle of the pack for score adjusted possession, so if they regress, it won’t be far.

- Feeling Glucky?



show me that proof, because from what I saw..its not true.

now its possible the Leafs who have a much smarter front office and employ smart data peeps have found something sustainable...but I am skeptical until we can prove it
GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ahead By A Century, ON
Joined: 06.12.2017

Dec 13 @ 5:44 PM ET
the ottawa senators are trash in every single way.

garbage team.
tries to claim other franchises history
never wins anything
captains are mostly idiots (alfredsson, spezza, Yashin)
owner is an idiot
no fans (tarp over seats)
the Trojan guy
burrows
onlybteam in NHL history to get 5 consecutive top 3 picks. still can't win.
trash team currently with at least 5 years of rebuilding, and without fans and revenue they may end up moving

don't get me started on that city.

they're such an embarrassment

- prock


You forgot- Captain is pathetic defensively. And the only thing he does well, he's not doing.
senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 14 @ 7:53 AM ET
Sens win, Season back on track.
Playoff march continues
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Dec 14 @ 8:09 AM ET
Sens win, Season back on track.
Playoff march continues

- senstroll



Never a doubt..

Karlsson was -2 with just under 30 minutes. Takes him to -18 on the year..

People think he is the best D man in the game.......
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: The Pit of Misery! Dilly Dilly!
Joined: 06.30.2006

Dec 14 @ 8:42 AM ET
show me that proof, because from what I saw..its not true.

now its possible the Leafs who have a much smarter front office and employ smart data peeps have found something sustainable...but I am skeptical until we can prove it

- senstroll


Even I don't believe it is sustainable. It isn't so much the shots it is the fact that the goalies have been standing on their head the past 4 or 5 weeks and yet the team is narrowly winning.

That telle me when the goaltending is even average, this team is going to struggle.

Some players apparently have no ability to play Babcock's system. They have had 2 training camps and 100+ games.

Babcock knows who they are. I trust that they will be gone at some point.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: The Pit of Misery! Dilly Dilly!
Joined: 06.30.2006

Dec 14 @ 8:43 AM ET
Never a doubt..

Karlsson was -2 with just under 30 minutes. Takes him to -18 on the year..

People think he is the best D man in the game.......

- bixll


+/- is obviously flawed as a yardstick to measure players, but when it is
that bad over that small a sample size, it means something.
senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 14 @ 9:04 AM ET
Even I don't believe it is sustainable. It isn't so much the shots it is the fact that the goalies have been standing on their head the past 4 or 5 weeks and yet the team is narrowly winning.

That telle me when the goaltending is even average, this team is going to struggle.

Some players apparently have no ability to play Babcock's system. They have had 2 training camps and 100+ games.

Babcock knows who they are. I trust that they will be gone at some point.

- Aetherial


I think so as well
We will see
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Dec 14 @ 9:11 AM ET
show me that proof, because from what I saw..its not true.

now its possible the Leafs who have a much smarter front office and employ smart data peeps have found something sustainable...but I am skeptical until we can prove it

- senstroll

http://corsica.hockey/team-stats/

Leafs lead the league in xGF/60. Their xGA/60 is pretty high, too, at 4th, but they come out at a net positive.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php

Their HDCF% is 53.2% which is good for 6th in the league. But it does help that they get the 3rd Hughes HDSV%. Still even if that fades, they consistently find themselves played in he other team’s high danger areas. Their HDSH% is only ~13th in the league, so it’s not likely to drop too much. Probably will get better as a guy like Matthews heals.

They’re also 8th for medium danger corsi. It’s their low danger Corsi that drags down their overall possession numbers, at 30th in the league. Obviously it’d be nice for that to improve, but it’s some good context IMO.
senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 14 @ 9:12 AM ET
+/- is obviously flawed as a yardstick to measure players, but when it it that bad over that small a sample size, it means something.
- Aetherial


Something I saw the other day, EK has the lowest goalie sv% while he is on the ice in the NHL for D. (or something along those lines)
So basically the goalies are sucking ass and letting in a lot of goals while he (and others) are on the ice...while he has also gone cold in the scoring department.

He is partnered with OhDOyou who I am not sure is even an NHL caliber player anymore. thats not going to help.

You can debate whether you think D can affect a goalies SV%, but the consensuses in the stats universe is they dont, at least its not something that repeats, players have low one season then high the next. you cant really see a trend with it.

Ovechkin went through something similar one season..but magically rebounded and decided to care the next season and was better on D (or at least thats what we are told)

senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 14 @ 9:21 AM ET
Sens Fans are taking this well

Ian Mendes‏Verified account @ian_mendes
Deep breath Sens fans: It's time for a rebuild in Ottawa. My TSN.ca column on what direction the franchise needs to go.


Ian Mendes‏Verified account @ian_mendes
Ian Mendes Retweeted Captain pain
Of all the replies in my feed, this one was my favourite from yesterday.

Captain pain‏ @Captainpain4
Replying to @ian_mendes
U are an idiot Mendez we struggle so we sell when ur kids are bad do u trade them moron go write a parent mag story

GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ahead By A Century, ON
Joined: 06.12.2017

Dec 14 @ 10:26 AM ET
Something I saw the other day, EK has the lowest goalie sv% while he is on the ice in the NHL for D. (or something along those lines)
So basically the goalies are sucking ass and letting in a lot of goals while he (and others) are on the ice...while he has also gone cold in the scoring department.

He is partnered with OhDOyou who I am not sure is even an NHL caliber player anymore. thats not going to help.

You can debate whether you think D can affect a goalies SV%, but the consensuses in the stats universe is they dont, at least its not something that repeats, players have low one season then high the next. you cant really see a trend with it.

Ovechkin went through something similar one season..but magically rebounded and decided to care the next season and was better on D (or at least thats what we are told)

- senstroll


If you watch Karlsson on the goals that get scored on, you'll see that he does literally nothing to prevent them. Like again last night. He did nothing to stop the guy and the goalie had no chance.

I know Ottawa's goaltending hasn't been overly good this season (which I said would be the case before the season started, suck it again, Spazzo) but Karlsson's ineptitude defensively doesn't help them.
senstroll
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Dec 14 @ 10:35 AM ET
If you watch Karlsson on the goals that get scored on, you'll see that he does literally nothing to prevent them. Like again last night. He did nothing to stop the guy and the goalie had no chance.

I know Ottawa's goaltending hasn't been overly good this season (which I said would be the case before the season started, suck it again, Spazzo) but Karlsson's ineptitude defensively doesn't help them.

- GreatGigInTheSky


I dont think anyone is saying he is great defensivley. I saw the 2 goals he was on for.
He kinda bumped grabner before letting him go by and score. Soft play for sure.

the second he kinda got caught on a 2 on 1 when the Sens player fell along the boards and let the ranger get loose. he just stood there old school table hockey game style where the players can only spin around and not move forward or back.

maybe some of his mobility is gone from his injury who knows. something is not right with him.
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