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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 8:35 AM ET
Percy, Finn Granberg, Brown, Leivo, McKegg...... A few. Not elite by any stretch, but plenty of legit NHL prospects.

Saying they have none is shear asinine.


Trading them means losing them??? They will get nothing for them?? They wont have equally good players replacing them??

Oh, and the "Experts" said.... just like the experts said that Luongo to the leafs was "DONE" as soon as the lockout was over. Not buying it. It's all about viewership and drumming up hits.

- burn


they'll obviously get something for them, but i was strictly talking about young core players. i don't know who they're gonna get, so it's hard to add anything in.....i imagine they'll want someone a little more "seasoned", so likely someone late 20's or early 30's....so not exactly "young core player"....that was my point.

as for your prospects, most rankings have the leafs farm system near the bottom, so forgive me if I believe them when they say that there aren't likely any potential impact players in the leafs system. obviously players can develop late, but it's unlikely that there's anyone in the system who's going to be a "difference maker" for the leafs anytime soon.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 8 @ 8:38 AM ET
they'll obviously get something for them, but i was strictly talking about young core players. i don't know who they're gonna get, so it's hard to add anything in.....i imagine they'll want someone a little more "seasoned", so likely someone late 20's or early 30's....so not exactly "young core player"....that was my point.

as for your prospects, most rankings have the leafs farm system near the bottom, so forgive me if I believe them when they say that there aren't likely any potential impact players in the leafs system. obviously players can develop late, but it's unlikely that there's anyone in the system who's going to be a "difference maker" for the leafs anytime soon.

- sensarmy_11



There are no impact players left in the Sens system, and certainly no one to replace Bobby Ryan.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 8:41 AM ET
Sure as hell not in the Sens system. You guys will be bottom ten. And with so few picks at the draft, passed by more teams, lower in the fall.
- prock


yeah you're right. lazar is the 3rd ranked prospect in the entire NHL......worthless. puempel scored 30 goals in his rookie AHL season........who cares. zibanejad and ceci are already very good NHLers at the age of 19 and 20.....big deal.

the ONLY impact player the leafs have under the age of 23 or 24 is reilly.....that's it, nobody else.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 8:41 AM ET
There are no impact players left in the Sens system, and certainly no one to replace Bobby Ryan.
- prock


you're clueless prock......not sure what's higher; your 'hater" level, or your level of stupidity.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 8:44 AM ET
ottawa doesnt' have an elite system, but still have a few guys who look like they'll be good NHL players in the very near future (lazar, puempel, claessen, pageau)

- sensarmy_11


Lazar 41g 76pts in Junior
Puempel 26G 44pts 1st AHL year (67 games)
Claessen 3g 27pts in 2nd AHL year (68 games)
Pageau 17g 41pts 2nd AHL year (44 games) + 25 NHL games 2 g.


Leafs have nothing to match that?? Really??? Really??

Leafs have guys that match up just fine with those guys. This list isn't even remotely close to being better..... certainly not enough to call the LEafs list "Zilch".

I could make a case that the Leafs have a better player at every position on that list you gave, but they have zilch.

burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 8:45 AM ET
they'll obviously get something for them, but i was strictly talking about young core players. i don't know who they're gonna get, so it's hard to add anything in.....i imagine they'll want someone a little more "seasoned", so likely someone late 20's or early 30's....so not exactly "young core player"....that was my point.

as for your prospects, most rankings have the leafs farm system near the bottom, so forgive me if I believe them when they say that there aren't likely any potential impact players in the leafs system. obviously players can develop late, but it's unlikely that there's anyone in the system who's going to be a "difference maker" for the leafs anytime soon.

- sensarmy_11



I don't believe they'll trade them.... as I said it's all media driven. Looking for hits.KAdri was all but traded at the deadline, but yeah still here.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 8:46 AM ET
Lazar 41g 76pts in Junior
Puempel 26G 44pts 1st AHL year (67 games)
Claessen 3g 27pts in 2nd AHL year (68 games)
Pageau 17g 41pts 2nd AHL year (44 games) + 25 NHL games 2 g.


Leafs have nothing to match that?? Really??? Really??

Leafs have guys that match up just fine with those guys. This list isn't even remotely close to being better..... certainly not enough to call the LEafs list "Zilch".

I could make a case that the Leafs have a better player at every position on that list you gave, but they have zilch.


- burn


make the argument then...............and make sure to include the players ages. don't start putting a 23 year old prospect against an 18 or 19 year old.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 8:48 AM ET
they'll obviously get something for them, but i was strictly talking about young core players. i don't know who they're gonna get, so it's hard to add anything in.....i imagine they'll want someone a little more "seasoned", so likely someone late 20's or early 30's....so not exactly "young core player"....that was my point.

as for your prospects, most rankings have the leafs farm system near the bottom, so forgive me if I believe them when they say that there aren't likely any potential impact players in the leafs system. obviously players can develop late, but it's unlikely that there's anyone in the system who's going to be a "difference maker" for the leafs anytime soon.

- sensarmy_11



Yeah some goof in his basement.... I'll take his word, sure.They are so good at what they do they don't even know where the players are playing. Hard to take them serious when they have blatantly wrong info in their bios.


No difference makers.... just like the Sens. The list you gave isn't any better than the Leafs, if at all (very good chance it's not). But the Leafs have zilch.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 8:51 AM ET
I don't believe they'll trade them.... as I said it's all media driven. Looking for hits.KAdri was all but traded at the deadline, but yeah still here.
- burn


well, they have to make improvments. they arent' exactly loaded with cap space (not that there's any real good UFAs anyways).......so unless they want to play next year with teh same D group, they have to make a trade. who, other than those two, can they move (that is tradeable, that they're willing to move, and who actually has value)

you obviously aren't moving kessel, jvr, rielly, phaneuf, clarkson, bozak

gleason (skill and contract) and lupul (injuries and lowered production) likely don't have that much value, certainly not enough to fix the defense.

the only other person i could see that has value is gunnarsson, but that seems like a horizontal move...trading away a good d-man to help fix your d seems dumb. i'd say the same about gardiner, but rielly sort of makes him expendable.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 8 @ 8:51 AM ET
yeah you're right. lazar is the 3rd ranked prospect in the entire NHL......worthless. puempel scored 30 goals in his rookie AHL season........who cares. zibanejad and ceci are already very good NHLers at the age of 19 and 20.....big deal.

the ONLY impact player the leafs have under the age of 23 or 24 is reilly.....that's it, nobody else.

- sensarmy_11


Uhh, HF had him at 30.


Its actually been a pretty good year for leafs prospects. Connor brown destroyed the OHL scoring race. Finn, as a defensive dman, was second in dman scoring, and man y called him the best dman in the OHL this year.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 8 @ 8:52 AM ET
There are no impact players left in the Sens system, and certainly no one to replace Bobby Ryan.
- prock


Starting to get bizarre. I thought both the Leafs and Sens would make the playoffs. Not really a big fan of the Bobby Ryan trade. I just don't think teams should trade good first round picks unless they are getting another one or a prospect back.

I would be okay if the Sens traded Ryan. He is a good player but the Sens have a boatload of talent coming through their system. Mark Stone looks pretty solid on the wing with Turris.

But, Ryan has clearly said he wants to resign in Ottawa. I just don't understand the talk of his walking after next year. My assumption is he gets traded at the draft (my preference) or he resigns.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 8:53 AM ET
Uhh, HF had him at 30.

- prock


ISS has him at 3

but if you believe HF about lazar, then you have to believe them about the leafs prospects being poop........so what is it.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 8:55 AM ET
yeah you're right. lazar is the 3rd ranked prospect in the entire NHL......worthless. puempel scored 30 goals in his rookie AHL season........who cares. zibanejad and ceci are already very good NHLers at the age of 19 and 20.....big deal.

the ONLY impact player the leafs have under the age of 23 or 24 is reilly.....that's it, nobody else.

- sensarmy_11



You conceding the last 2 goals??

Leivo scored 20 in his rookie year and has 39pts (3 g less and 2pts more than Puempel over the same 68 games) Who cares. D'Amigo would have 28 goals and 44pts (same as Puempel) Who cares. - They didn't play 68 games like Puempel because they played in the NHL this year.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 8:55 AM ET
Uhh, HF had him at 30.


Its actually been a pretty good year for leafs prospects. Connor brown destroyed the OHL scoring race. Finn, as a defensive dman, was second in dman scoring, and man y called him the best dman in the OHL this year.

- prock


find ONE quote that said that
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 8 @ 8:56 AM ET
Starting to get bizarre. I thought both the Leafs and Sens would make the playoffs. Not really a big fan of the Bobby Ryan trade. I just don't think teams should trade good first round picks unless they are getting another one or a prospect back.

I would be okay if the Sens traded Ryan. He is a good player but the Sens have a boatload of talent coming through their system. Mark Stone looks pretty solid on the wing with Turris.

But, Ryan has clearly said he wants to resign in Ottawa. I just don't understand the talk of his walking after next year. My assumption is he gets traded at the draft (my preference) or he resigns.

- spatso


Pretty sure he said he likes it there and would be willing to discuss it. Standard free agent talk. Actually, lots say they'd LIKE to get a deal done, so bobby Ryan actually said very little.

As good as gone.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 8 @ 8:58 AM ET
ISS has him at 3

but if you believe HF about lazar, then you have to believe them about the leafs prospects being poop........so what is it.

- sensarmy_11


Since when does the ISS do list draft rankings?
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 8:59 AM ET
You conceding the last 2 goals??

Leivo scored 20 in his rookie year and has 39pts (3 g less and 2pts more than Puempel over the same 68 games) Who cares. D'Amigo would have 28 goals and 44pts (same as Puempel) Who cares. - They didn't play 68 games like Puempel because they played in the NHL this year.

- burn


does he only have 28? close enough. he's a rookie, playing his first season of pro hockey. d'amigo has been in the AHL for 4 seasons......not exactly the same level of development.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 9:03 AM ET
make the argument then...............and make sure to include the players ages. don't start putting a 23 year old prospect against an 18 or 19 year old.
- sensarmy_11




Lazar 41g 76pts in Junior (1995)
Puempel 28G 46pts 1st AHL year (68 games) (1993)
Claessen 3g 27pts in 2nd AHL year (68 games) (1992)
Pageau 17g 41pts 2nd AHL year (44 games) + 25 NHL games 2 g. (1992)


Brown lead the CHL in scoring. (1994)
Leivo 20 goals 39pts in 55 games 1st AHL year + 7games 1g2pts in the NHL
(25g 48pts over 68 games - comparable to Puempel) (1993)
Percy 2g 21pts 1st AHL year (more than double Claessen's 1st year comparable to his 2nd and he's a year younger) (1993)
McKegg 17g 44pts (1992)


Pretty comparable right there. I guess the Sens have Zilch too?
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 8 @ 9:03 AM ET
Since when does the ISS do list draft rankings?
- prock


the international scouting service always has rankings............perhaps if you actually looked stuff up, instead of talking out of your ass, you wouldn't sound so stupid all the time.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 9:06 AM ET
Uhh, HF had him at 30.


Its actually been a pretty good year for leafs prospects. Connor brown destroyed the OHL scoring race. Finn, as a defensive dman, was second in dman scoring, and man y called him the best dman in the OHL this year.

- prock



Big things for Finn I think. Captain. Used as shutdown Dman. Huge +/-. 2nd in Dman scoring.

I think he's a good one. Can't wait to see him with the MArlies next year.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 9:07 AM ET
ISS has him at 3

but if you believe HF about lazar, then you have to believe them about the leafs prospects being poop........so what is it.

- sensarmy_11



I thought ISS only rated draft eligibles?? Where is this?
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 9:08 AM ET
does he only have 28? close enough. he's a rookie, playing his first season of pro hockey. d'amigo has been in the AHL for 4 seasons......not exactly the same level of development.
- sensarmy_11



Leivo??


*ignores*
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 8 @ 9:09 AM ET
the international scouting service always has rankings............perhaps if you actually looked stuff up, instead of talking out of your ass, you wouldn't sound so stupid all the time.
- sensarmy_11



link?
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 8 @ 9:10 AM ET
Pretty sure he said he likes it there and would be willing to discuss it. Standard free agent talk. Actually, lots say they'd LIKE to get a deal done, so bobby Ryan actually said very little.

As good as gone.

- prock


I believe Murray also said a deal would get done. High end players who are looking for 8 year deals don't have much leverage on the open market compared to what the home team is able to do. Not a big fan of the Phaneuf signing. Okay with the Kessel deal. I just don't think Bobby Ryan is a franchise player. So, try and get him to sign for $35m over 6 years (so another 7 years or you move him).
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 8 @ 9:14 AM ET
Lazar 41g 76pts in Junior (1995)
Puempel 28G 46pts 1st AHL year (68 games) (1993)
Claessen 3g 27pts in 2nd AHL year (68 games) (1992)
Pageau 17g 41pts 2nd AHL year (44 games) + 25 NHL games 2 g. (1992)


Brown lead the CHL in scoring. (1994)
Leivo 20 goals 39pts in 55 games 1st AHL year + 7games 1g2pts in the NHL
(25g 48pts over 68 games - comparable to Puempel) (1993)
Percy 2g 21pts 1st AHL year (more than double Claessen's 1st year comparable to his 2nd and he's a year younger) (1993)
McKegg 17g 44pts (1992)


Pretty comparable right there. I guess the Sens have Zilch too?

- burn


Don't get hooked into this debate again this year. I am fed up with talk about Kadri being a great prospect, the future of the team and a #1 center for years to come. Nobody gets it more screwed up than Leaf fans when it comes to evaluating prospects.
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