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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 16 @ 11:43 AM ET
ok its worse than I thought for Ottawa.. this does not seem right

stats at 5v5

Ottawa
PDO 103.83
SH% 10.43
CF% 42.06
Corsi dif -71

Toronto
PDO 100.75
SH% 13.79
CF% 56.82
Corsi dif +54

Sens getting some good goaltending since they are getting smashed in chances
GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ahead By A Century, ON
Joined: 06.12.2017

Oct 16 @ 11:47 AM ET
We had lunch in a country pub just down the road from where we live. When we got into the city Mrs. Spatso refused my invitation to Best Buy and she went to Home Sense instead. I went to Best Buy (same Mall on Merivale Rd) as Home Sense.

I sat in the theatre section and looked at chair options.

I currently have 6 large chairs in the media room and Mrs. Spatso has her treadmill in there as well. I want to get rid of the treadmill and replace all the chairs with a more classic theatre styled configuration.

Hard to find real theatre style chair at a reasonable cost. Everybody wants to sell you the big overstuffed leather units starting at $1,200 each. I am looking for real theatre styled seats. (around 8) at a reasonable cost.

I can order them used from the US but there is no guarantee on what kind of shape they are in.

We built this house 8 years ago and the media room was done by the contractor and we did not think much about it at the time. So, the new TV as our Christmas present to each other is part of the make over of the media room.

Any ideas or recommendations are deeply appreciated. Love this project (budget, including TV is $8,000). Room is 22x13.

Some of the best suggestions that I have had have come from people who have not done the same project but have thought about it.

- spatso


I'm honestly shocked at the lengths you go to to keep this charade up.
GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ahead By A Century, ON
Joined: 06.12.2017

Oct 16 @ 11:50 AM ET
Does not look like a "sophomore slump" is a problem so far.

He should be getting more attention, from other teams so called shutdown forward and D pairings around the league this season, so it'll be a good test for him.

- D0PPELGANGER


He has been. And they did last season, too.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Oct 16 @ 11:58 AM ET
Does not look like a "sophomore slump" is a problem so far.

He should be getting more attention, from other teams so called shutdown forward and D pairings around the league this season, so it'll be a good test for him.

- D0PPELGANGER


yes thankfully no other teams have figured out the leafs best player.. he is flying under the radar so far.

also sophomore slump is not a thing
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Oct 16 @ 12:00 PM ET
yes thankfully no other teams have figured out the leafs best player.. he is flying under the radar so far.

also sophomore slump is not a thing

- senstroll

Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you cant say Lehner is a bumb -BigDog912
Joined: 06.30.2006

Oct 16 @ 12:54 PM ET
Its early but I am not convinced of the sens start
They are benefiting from a good penalty differential and some high PDO
League high team sv% .946

Will be interested when EK comes back

- senstroll


No no no

When EK comes back they will be even BETTER.


Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you cant say Lehner is a bumb -BigDog912
Joined: 06.30.2006

Oct 16 @ 12:58 PM ET
If you don't want to create confusion, try spelling your team's goaltenders name correctly.


Or, if you did purposely to draw a reaction, so that you can post yet another profanity laced reply, then mission accomplished ............... and good trolling to you!

- D0PPELGANGER


Speaking of trolling,

Did you find any evidence yet of me saying anything about planning the cup parade yet?

I didn't think so.

Don't you think it is time you man up and admit you just make up poop when you have nothing else to debate with.

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 16 @ 1:12 PM ET
I was unclear. People point out your mistakes because of how often you point out other people's in a condescending way.

Nobody cares about your spelling.

- Feeling Glucky?

Typical Dopps. When there’s some semantic thing he can twist, he’s quick to respond and call people liars and trolls.

When things are laid out clearly and he has no counter, he just disappears.

No wonder this guy spent hundreds of pages defending trump, who he totally doesn’t like as a president.

D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 16 @ 2:07 PM ET
Typical Dopps. When there’s some semantic thing he can twist, he’s quick to respond and call people liars and trolls.

When things are laid out clearly and he has no counter, he just disappears.

No wonder this guy spent hundreds of pages defending trump, who he totally doesn’t like as a president.


- Feeling Glucky?




Wow, quoting, and having a conversation with yourself .................. must be really slow at work today ............... or just posting a transcript of the conversion you have with yourself, in your head I suppose.

spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Oct 16 @ 2:12 PM ET
ok its worse than I thought for Ottawa.. this does not seem right

stats at 5v5

Ottawa
PDO 103.83
SH% 10.43
CF% 42.06
Corsi dif -71

Toronto
PDO 100.75
SH% 13.79
CF% 56.82
Corsi dif +54

Sens getting some good goaltending since they are getting smashed in chances

- senstroll


Interesting. Listening to the NHL channel on Serius this morning and the guy from Calgary was talking about Sens western sweep. He noted that the Sens won Alberta 12-1 but trailed on Corsi in both games.

He says if you look at Pittsburg in the playoffs last year you see exactly the same pattern. Not sure I can explain the exact merit of his argument, but essentially he thinks these are counter attacking teams that don't value possession. Emphasis is on using you speed to defend and set up the counter attack in a fast break pattern. He talked about how quickly the strikes unfolded, noting that Hoffman scored two goals counting less than one second in possession time for both goals.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 16 @ 2:20 PM ET
Interesting. Listening to the NHL channel on Serius this morning and the guy from Calgary was talking about Sens western sweep. He noted that the Sens won Alberta 12-1 but trailed on Corsi in both games.

He says if you look at Pittsburg in the playoffs last year you see exactly the same pattern. Not sure I can explain the exact merit of his argument, but essentially he thinks these are counter attacking teams that don't value possession. Emphasis is on using you speed to defend and set up the counter attack in a fast break pattern. He talked about how quickly the strikes unfolded, noting that Hoffman scored two goals counting less than one second in possession time for both goals.

- spatso




The name of the city of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, has a complicated history. Pittsburgh is one of the few U.S. cities or towns to be spelled with an h at the end of a burg suffix.


http://popularpittsburgh.com/whatsinanh/




BTW, it's just 5 games, but these are good indicators.

Penalty Kill 100%
Team xGF% (all situations): 51.43%
Bobby Ryan: on for 10 GF, 0 GA
Fredrik Claesson avg. TOI: 21:01
Penalty Differential: +14
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 16 @ 2:35 PM ET
Wow, quoting, and having a conversation with yourself .................. must be really slow at work today ............... or just posting a transcript of the conversion you have with yourself, in your head I suppose.


- D0PPELGANGER



And then the classic dopps deflect.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you cant say Lehner is a bumb -BigDog912
Joined: 06.30.2006

Oct 16 @ 2:40 PM ET
Interesting. Listening to the NHL channel on Serius this morning and the guy from Calgary was talking about Sens western sweep. He noted that the Sens won Alberta 12-1 but trailed on Corsi in both games.

He says if you look at Pittsburg in the playoffs last year you see exactly the same pattern. Not sure I can explain the exact merit of his argument, but essentially he thinks these are counter attacking teams that don't value possession. Emphasis is on using you speed to defend and set up the counter attack in a fast break pattern. He talked about how quickly the strikes unfolded, noting that Hoffman scored two goals counting less than one second in possession time for both goals.

- spatso


uh,

"possession" in the terms that Senstroll is using the word has nothing to do with how long someone has the puck on their stick or how long the team has control of the puck leading up to an event, like a goal.

Oh, and the Leafs belied the odds for an extended period of time at one point... most of 2 seasons where their results were > than their possession stats.
So did Colorado a couple years ago.

Then the Leafs utterly collapsed and we saw what happened to Colorado.

Over time, if you are not fundamentally good, then the exotic sv% penalty kill% ... Bobby Ryan being +10 ( or whatever, ) is going to catch up with you.

Sadly, you won't be here to discuss when it does happen.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 16 @ 3:02 PM ET
After 5 games (each) one team, the Kings sitting at .900 P%, and 7 teams at .800 P%, including two teams from Ontario and one from Nevada.




Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 16 @ 3:06 PM ET
uh,

"possession" in the terms that Senstroll is using the word has nothing to do with how long someone has the puck on their stick or how long the team has control of the puck leading up to an event, like a goal.

Oh, and the Leafs belied the odds for an extended period of time at one point... most of 2 seasons where their results were > than their possession stats.
So did Colorado a couple years ago.

Then the Leafs utterly collapsed and we saw what happened to Colorado.

Over time, if you are not fundamentally good, then the exotic sv% penalty kill% ... Bobby Ryan being +10 ( or whatever, ) is going to catch up with you.

Sadly, you won't be here to discuss when it does happen.

- Aetherial

Same thing happened in Calgary.

It's funny, basically all the teams a couple of dummies here were pointing to, to say the Leafs would regress this year happened to look more like the Sens than the Leafs. Just getting by, being an awful possession team, and getting bailed out/lucky... until the luck ran out.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Oct 16 @ 3:06 PM ET
uh,

"possession" in the terms that Senstroll is using the word has nothing to do with how long someone has the puck on their stick or how long the team has control of the puck leading up to an event, like a goal.

Oh, and the Leafs belied the odds for an extended period of time at one point... most of 2 seasons where their results were > than their possession stats.
So did Colorado a couple years ago.

Then the Leafs utterly collapsed and we saw what happened to Colorado.

Over time, if you are not fundamentally good, then the exotic sv% penalty kill% ... Bobby Ryan being +10 ( or whatever, ) is going to catch up with you.

Sadly, you won't be here to discuss when it does happen.

- Aetherial


Again I am not sure how this argument has evolved but it was repeated again later on during a different Serius broadcast. This time, different guys talked about Condon and Anderson having a .950 save percentage without facing many tough shots. The Sens have the highest rate for blocking shots in the league. But Corsi computes out block shots as a negative.

Can you explain to me how Ottawa wins Alberta 12-1. Dominates play in the sense of dangerous attacks, yet loses Corsi?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 16 @ 3:11 PM ET
Again I am not sure how this argument has evolved but it was repeated again later on during a different Serius broadcast. This time, different guys talked about Condon and Anderson having a .950 save percentage without facing many tough shots. The Sens have the highest rate for blocking shots in the league. But Corsi computes out block shots as a negative.

Can you explain to me how Ottawa wins Alberta 12-1. Dominates play in the sense of dangerous attacks, yet loses Corsi?

- spatso

because Corsi doesn't look at how dangerous a chance is... just uses shot attempts as a proxy for possession.

a blocked shot can't happen if you have possession of the puck.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Oct 16 @ 5:31 PM ET
because Corsi doesn't look at how dangerous a chance is... just uses shot attempts as a proxy for possession.

a blocked shot can't happen if you have possession of the puck.

- Feeling Glucky?


I understand the formula. It is the logic I am questioning. The thesis being put forward this morning (on Serius) is that Corsi does not adequately measure teams like Pittsburgh and Ottawa. These teams use their defensive speed to create turnovers (or block shots) and quickly transition to the attack. They are fast to abandon the attack zone by putting the puck in deep and retreating to a defensive posture. They do not not play run and gun hockey (until 3 on 3 overtime).

What I am hearing is something akin to a basketball team running a fast break out of a zone defence. So a fast team plays zone defence, first priority is to not give up any great scoring chances, try to force teams to shoot from the perimeter and break for the quick strike when a clean turnover is achieved. Everybody tries to avoid being caught deep when possession changes. They try to break up the play coming through the neutral zone and if they don't they retreat to their full defensive zone posture

Last year Pittsburgh played a marginal Corsi game all through the playoffs. The only team that really challenged them was the Sens who played a very similar speed defensive game. Corsi proponents hate the Sens and Pens. They love LA and the other big slow teams that hang unto the puck and play a perimeter game. But teams like Pittsburgh don't bother to try and break up an offensive zone cycle game. As long as they are kept to the outside and if you shut off the passing lanes they are not going to score.

Overnight, it is dramatic to how much players are getting smaller and faster.

Does Corsi really measure what happened in the playoffs last year? I don't think so. This year Edmonton is showing great Corsi numbers but bad game results.

I don't know but this may be this year that Corsi gets relegated to the same curios status as +/-. I find it highly humorous that we invest as much time into talking about Corsi as we do the the scoreboard. Scoreboard matters, Corsi does not.

Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the arena with no parking
Joined: 07.06.2007

Oct 16 @ 5:37 PM ET
to be fair, dopps was always a big proponent of points %

i think you got this one wrong, glucks
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Oct 16 @ 6:36 PM ET
to be fair, dopps was always a big proponent of points %

i think you got this one wrong, glucks

- Crimsoninja


and crimsoninja slides under the ropes with a steel chair!
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 16 @ 7:04 PM ET
to be fair, dopps was always a big proponent of points %

i think you got this one wrong, glucks

- Crimsoninja



Thank you, I think he's just mixing me up with someone else ......... or his long term memory is not so good.


It's just an even handed way to measure teams records during the season, because of the stupid points system they use, and every team not playing the same number of games during the season.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Oct 16 @ 7:08 PM ET
and crimsoninja slides under the ropes with a steel chair!
- systemtool

Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the arena with no parking
Joined: 07.06.2007

Oct 16 @ 7:16 PM ET
dopps that's 3 gifs now, just pick one and commit
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Oct 16 @ 7:27 PM ET
to be fair, dopps was always a big proponent of points %

i think you got this one wrong, glucks

- Crimsoninja

He argued on a number of occasions that having a lower Point% didn't matter if a team had games in hand.



Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Oct 16 @ 9:37 PM ET
I understand the formula. It is the logic I am questioning. The thesis being put forward this morning (on Serius) is that Corsi does not adequately measure teams like Pittsburgh and Ottawa. These teams use their defensive speed to create turnovers (or block shots) and quickly transition to the attack. They are fast to abandon the attack zone by putting the puck in deep and retreating to a defensive posture. They do not not play run and gun hockey (until 3 on 3 overtime).

What I am hearing is something akin to a basketball team running a fast break out of a zone defence. So a fast team plays zone defence, first priority is to not give up any great scoring chances, try to force teams to shoot from the perimeter and break for the quick strike when a clean turnover is achieved. Everybody tries to avoid being caught deep when possession changes. They try to break up the play coming through the neutral zone and if they don't they retreat to their full defensive zone posture

Last year Pittsburgh played a marginal Corsi game all through the playoffs. The only team that really challenged them was the Sens who played a very similar speed defensive game. Corsi proponents hate the Sens and Pens. They love LA and the other big slow teams that hang unto the puck and play a perimeter game. But teams like Pittsburgh don't bother to try and break up an offensive zone cycle game. As long as they are kept to the outside and if you shut off the passing lanes they are not going to score.

Overnight, it is dramatic to how much players are getting smaller and faster.

Does Corsi really measure what happened in the playoffs last year? I don't think so. This year Edmonton is showing great Corsi numbers but bad game results.

I don't know but this may be this year that Corsi gets relegated to the same curios status as +/-. I find it highly humorous that we invest as much time into talking about Corsi as we do the the scoreboard. Scoreboard matters, Corsi does not.

- spatso


Agreed. It was amazing that the sens and pens both lost the corsi battle when they played in the playoffs but there was only one winner.
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