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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
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prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 6 @ 9:32 AM ET
He is critical of other teams but doesn't seem to say the leafs are junk or crap. Point totals for the leafs and sens are close. Considering the fact the leafs miss the playoffs every year and the sens typically make it one would think the leafs should be much better than the sens, especially with the cheap owner of the sens.
- jordan456789



No, the Sens are complete crap. If Bernier doesn't get hurt, this slide likely doesn't happen. But whatever, it's not like they were contenders anyway.

The Sens have stayed remarkably healthy all year, traded away picks for rentals for a lift for the team, and still couldn't parlay that out of the bottom 10 in the league. A lot of things went right for the Sens, and the best they could do was that. Couple that with some of their top players jumping ship next year, and they're a garbage team on the decline.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Apr 6 @ 10:22 AM ET
still say the big difference in the two teams is money and ownership. Melnyk needs to spend to get better. Will he?

The Leafs will spend to the cap max with it going up.
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Apr 6 @ 11:00 AM ET
No, the Sens are complete crap. If Bernier doesn't get hurt, this slide likely doesn't happen. But whatever, it's not like they were contenders anyway.

The Sens have stayed remarkably healthy all year, traded away picks for rentals for a lift for the team, and still couldn't parlay that out of the bottom 10 in the league. A lot of things went right for the Sens, and the best they could do was that. Couple that with some of their top players jumping ship next year, and they're a garbage team on the decline.

- prock


You are blaming injuries. If the leafs could play defense the slide also probably doesnt happen. Career years from JVR Kessel and Bozak and they leafs are still on the outside looking in. The sens probably expected better goaltending
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 6 @ 11:10 AM ET
You are blaming injuries. If the leafs could play defense the slide also probably doesnt happen. Career years from JVR Kessel and Bozak and they leafs are still on the outside looking in. The sens probably expected better goaltending
- jordan456789


I'm sure they did expect better. But they're crap.
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Apr 6 @ 12:53 PM ET
I'm sure they did expect better. But they're crap.
- prock

Who the leafs or sens?

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 6 @ 2:53 PM ET
You are blaming injuries. If the leafs could play defense the slide also probably doesnt happen. Career years from JVR Kessel and Bozak and they leafs are still on the outside looking in. The sens probably expected better goaltending
- jordan456789




Of course it's all because of the injuries, when it comes to the leaf fans. They use the "injuries card" when it suits them, but it is not allowed for any other team.

Ottawa has had their share of players who have been injured, and did not play up to their usual standards for the better part of this season.............but pointing that out is an excuse that is not allowed in the eyes of some of the leaf fans here.


Just let me point out, that it was NOT injured players that allowed a league high average of 35.9 shot against this season, or the third worst PK% and the overall team league leader in total Giveaways.


It's much more deep than just an unproven "starter" going down with an injury, and an "just okay" backup not being able to keep his team afloat.
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Apr 6 @ 7:08 PM ET
Of course it's all because of the injuries, when it comes to the leaf fans. They use the "injuries card" when it suits them, but it is not allowed for any other team.

Ottawa has had their share of players who have been injured, and did not play up to their usual standards for the better part of this season.............but pointing that out is an excuse that is not allowed in the eyes of some of the leaf fans here.


Just let me point out, that it was NOT injured players that allowed a league high average of 35.9 shot against this season, or the third worst PK% and the overall team league leader in total Giveaways.


It's much more deep than just an unproven "starter" going down with an injury, and an "just okay" backup not being able to keep his team afloat.

- Doppleganger


If someone else used and unproven starter as an excuse he would have a lot to say about it lol. I said earlier that it is probably more to do with the fact the leafs cant play defense. Sens are garbage but points between the two teams are not that difference. I assume he thinks the leafs are garbage as well.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 6 @ 11:53 PM ET
If someone else used and unproven starter as an excuse he would have a lot to say about it lol. I said earlier that it is probably more to do with the fact the leafs cant play defense. Sens are garbage but points between the two teams are not that difference. I assume he thinks the leafs are garbage as well.
- jordan456789



Bernier was not a starter in L.A., and became the leafs just this year.
Mr_Squeaks
Ottawa Senators
Location: Location: Location: Glitch in
Joined: 06.26.2006

Apr 7 @ 7:23 AM ET
Bernier was not a starter in L.A., and became the leafs just this year.
- Doppleganger


Bernier is the new Reimer who was the new Scrivens who was the new Toskala who was the new Raycroft who was... etc.

The Leafs have finished their rebuild and find that they've built around a bunch of squabbling, choking dogs. Great fans, garbage team, perpetually.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 7 @ 7:36 AM ET
Bernier is the new Reimer who was the new Scrivens who was the new Toskala who was the new Raycroft who was... etc.

The Leafs have finished their rebuild and find that they've built around a bunch of squabbling, choking dogs. Great fans, garbage team, perpetually.

- Mr_Squeaks


Haha. Who's the new Anderson who had one ridiculous year and idiot Sens fans fans were yapping about how great their team is? You make me laugh, this is the exact crap your fan base spouted ad nauseum.

The other irony is how many spouted crap about making the playoffs with so many injuries that year, and how they'd be a top team healthy. Funny how the reverse doesn't apply for some of you morons. Healthiest team in the league this year, trade picks for rentals, and still can't get out of the basement.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 7 @ 9:18 AM ET
Senators. A step ahead in the rebuild...
- rmiethaner

no 1st rounder- I'd say they're a step behind.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 7 @ 9:24 AM ET
no 1st rounder- I'd say they're a step behind.
- Feeling Glucky?


the sens have a top 10 prospect group (according to most "experts"), while the leafs group is rated as one of the 5 worst in the NHL.

a single 1st rd pick, in a weak draft, isn't gonna change that one way or the other.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 7 @ 9:40 AM ET
the sens have a top 10 prospect group (according to most "experts"), while the leafs group is rated as one of the 5 worst in the NHL.

a single 1st rd pick, in a weak draft, isn't gonna change that one way or the other.

- sensarmy_11

by most experts, do you mean HF?

funny how the senators don't have a pick and suddenly it's a weak draft according to senators fans

Personally, since the Leafs aren't making the playoffs, I hope they fall a bit more and draft a guy like Ritchie. But McCann doesn't look too bad either.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 7 @ 9:48 AM ET
Bernier is the new Reimer who was the new Scrivens who was the new Toskala who was the new Raycroft who was... etc.

The Leafs have finished their rebuild and find that they've built around a bunch of squabbling, choking dogs. Great fans, garbage team, perpetually.

- Mr_Squeaks



That's a little harsh.

There are a some good young players in the leafs system.

But some of the veteran players do not seem to being buying into the team defensive concept that Carlyle has known for prior to his arrival in toronto.

And when these players are not held responsible for not playing defensively, then I point at the coaching staff.


Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 7 @ 9:51 AM ET
That's a little harsh.

There are a some good young players in the leafs system.

But some of the veteran players do not seem to being buying into the team defensive concept that Carlyle has known for prior to his arrival in toronto.

And when these players are not held responsible for not playing defensively, then I point at the coaching staff.

- Doppleganger

According to Dreger, he's getting fired this off-season.

Some coaches don't match their teams.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 7 @ 9:55 AM ET
by most experts, do you mean HF?

funny how the senators don't have a pick and suddenly it's a weak draft according to senators fans

Personally, since the Leafs aren't making the playoffs, I hope they fall a bit more and draft a guy like Ritchie. But McCann doesn't look too bad either.

- Feeling Glucky?


HF, ISS, mackenzie on TSN, etc. I put experts in quotations, cuz obviously it's a subjective thing..........but everything i've read/heard has said the sens have a top 10 system, and the leafs system is weak.

as for the draft, pretty much every analyst, scout, MSM, gm, that you hear speak about this draft, say that it's a weak draft. Outside of the top 2-3 picks, the entire draft is pretty much a crapshoot. compared to next years draft, and the last few, there just isn't as much potential in this years draft. if you think it's just sens fans who are saying that, then i suggest you start reading up...........especially since the leafs are headed to a top 10 pick of their own.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 7 @ 10:01 AM ET
HF, ISS, mackenzie on TSN, etc. I put experts in quotations, cuz obviously it's a subjective thing..........but everything i've read/heard has said the sens have a top 10 system, and the leafs system is weak.

as for the draft, pretty much every analyst, scout, MSM, gm, that you hear speak about this draft, say that it's a weak draft. Outside of the top 2-3 picks, the entire draft is pretty much a crapshoot. compared to next years draft, and the last few, there just isn't as much potential in this years draft. if you think it's just sens fans who are saying that, then i suggest you start reading up...........especially since the leafs are headed to a top 10 pick of their own.

- sensarmy_11

I read that it's a crapshoot outside of the first few picks because of the parity of the players. It's missing that 2nd tier in the 5-10 range that you see in a lot of drafts, but there are supposed to be a good number of NHLers in the 1st.

I remember 2006 and 2008 having fairly similar descriptions, and there being some surprisingly good picks made.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 7 @ 10:03 AM ET
HF, ISS, mackenzie on TSN, etc. I put
- sensarmy_11


Umm that's not true, HF says 12, and will be even further from the truth when the next rankings come out, on top of some of the rated youth you had in the system going out the door for bobby Ryan.

Speaking of which, anyone you feel is capable of replacing him after next year?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 7 @ 10:06 AM ET
the sens have a top 10 prospect group (according to most "experts"), while the leafs group is rated as one of the 5 worst in the NHL.

a single 1st rd pick, in a weak draft, isn't gonna change that one way or the other.

- sensarmy_11



You are quite correct in characterizing this spring's draft as "weak", as the most the respected prospect annalist has been saying this for about a year now.




Bob McKenzie
"There appears to be a lot of volatility in this year's mid-season rankings. NHL scouts don't seem as fully sold on this year's first-round prospects, especially those ranked from No. 11 through to 30."


Bob McKenzie
"But the scouts also cautioned that the top-end prospects this year are still excellent talents, just not necessarily potential stars."

And you know that when these leaf fans tune in to watch the draft on TSN, they will hear with their own ears, the annalists say how this year's draft does not measure up to recent drafts or next year's draft............and still won't believe it.




However some leaf fans only agree with his assessment went it suit them. They also don't recognize that Ottawa traded their pick to acquire Ryan, and somehow that doesn't factor into the equation...........to them it means the draft pick just vanished, just like the leafs strong secure hold on third place, with home ice advantage for the playoffs, in the Eastern Conference they had only three weeks ago (or so).

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 7 @ 10:08 AM ET
According to Dreger, he's getting fired this off-season.

Some coaches don't match their teams.

- Feeling Glucky?


And the same thing is being said concerning Ottawa's coach, this morning on TSN1200, by Sean Simpson.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Apr 7 @ 10:25 AM ET


However some leaf fans only agree with his assessment went it suit them. They also don't recognize that Ottawa traded their pick to acquire Ryan, and somehow that doesn't factor into the equation...........to them it means the draft pick just vanished, just like the leafs strong secure hold on third place, with home ice advantage for the playoffs, in the Eastern Conference they had only three weeks ago (or so).

- Doppleganger


Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 7 @ 10:33 AM ET
You are quite correct in characterizing this spring's draft as "weak", as the most the respected prospect annalist has been saying this for about a year now.




Bob McKenzie
"There appears to be a lot of volatility in this year's mid-season rankings. NHL scouts don't seem as fully sold on this year's first-round prospects, especially those ranked from No. 11 through to 30."


Bob McKenzie
"But the scouts also cautioned that the top-end prospects this year are still excellent talents, just not necessarily potential stars."

And you know that when these leaf fans tune in to watch the draft on TSN, they will hear with their own ears, the annalists say how this year's draft does not measure up to recent drafts or next year's draft............and still won't believe it.




However some leaf fans only agree with his assessment went it suit them. They also don't recognize that Ottawa traded their pick to acquire Ryan, and somehow that doesn't factor into the equation...........to them it means the draft pick just vanished, just like the leafs strong secure hold on third place, with home ice advantage for the playoffs, in the Eastern Conference they had only three weeks ago (or so).

- Doppleganger

interesting, not once does he call the draft weak, just words you're putting in his mouth, as you so often do.

The fact the pick was traded for Ryan, a weakling with no heart who only put up 23 goals, and will likely demand a huge salary next off-season just makes it worse... and we fully recognize that.

Unlike all those years you pretended the Leafs traded away 2 1sts and a 2nd for nothing.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 7 @ 10:47 AM ET
interesting, not once does he call the draft weak, just words you're putting in his mouth, as you so often do.

The fact the pick was traded for Ryan, a weakling with no heart who only put up 23 goals, and will likely demand a huge salary next off-season just makes it worse... and we fully recognize that.

Unlike all those years you pretended the Leafs traded away 2 1sts and a 2nd for nothing.

- Feeling Glucky?



There you go again, putting words in my mouth. Resorting to lies again.

Is that the only way you can persuade yourself that you're right on something?

I, and many others in these forums discussed the "Kessel" trade and most came down on the side that Boston won that trade.

Each team got a player(s) they wanted and that is why I am now saying that IF Ryan is traded, Ottawa will get player(s)/Pick(s)/Prospect(s) that can be directly traced back to their 2014 1st round pick (and the other assets involved in the Ryan trade)

Why do you lie about things like that?





BTW the Blue Jackets magic number is now 3 to eliminate the leafs
the Red Wings magic number is now 2 to eliminate the leafs
the Flyers magic number is now 1 to eliminate the leafs


toronto maple leafs Playoff Chances

1.4%

Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 7 @ 10:49 AM ET
There you go again, putting words in my mouth. Resorting to lies again.

Is that the only way you can persuade yourself that you're right on something?

I, and many others in these forums discussed the "Kessel" trade and most came down on the side that Boston won that trade.

Each team got a player(s) they wanted and that is why I am now saying that IF Ryan is traded, Ottawa will get player(s)/Pick(s)/Prospect(s) that can be directly traced back to their 2014 1st round pick (and the other assets involved in the Ryan trade)

Why do you lie about things like that?





BTW the Blue Jackets magic number is now 3 to eliminate the leafs
the Red Wings magic number is now 2 to eliminate the leafs
the Flyers magic number is now 1 to eliminate the leafs


toronto maple leafs Playoff Chances

1.4%

- Doppleganger


Oh dopps, can never face facts. Only twist them .
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 7 @ 11:01 AM ET
Oh dopps, can never face facts. Only twist them .
- Feeling Glucky?




No my bold faced lying friend, you said ( above ) "you pretended the Leafs traded away 2 1sts and a 2nd for nothing"

Are you trying to convince anyone here that I "pretended" Kessel was not involved in the "Kessel for Seguin/Hamilton/Knight trade?


If you cannot post one quoted post of mine to support your false claim, then you've just proven one of two things...............either you're stupid, or a liar.
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