Sens Writer: DeBrincat Traded to Red Wings

Sens Writer: DeBrincat Traded to Red Wings
- khawk

Tim Stutzle led the Sens in scoring with 90 points. DeBrincat was 4th among Sens scorers with 66 points. DeBrincat thought he was worth more money than Stutzle on an 8 year deal. His new contract proves the league and other owners didn't think so. Ottawa never had the cap space to resign DeBrincat and paying a 2nd line winger $8 million a year was a luxury we (And no other team) cant afford.

I'm okay with the return. Kubalik is a 20 goal scorer who could thrive up here with an increased role (seems like a classic tweener....too good for a 3rd line role but maybe not good enough for 1st line minutes).

We basically rented a 25 to 30 goal (and i think that is what the Cat is, not a 40 goal guy) scorer for one season for a drop down in the first round and a 2nd rd and got a NHL player in return.

I also think the trade for Debrincat increased the value of the team during the sale process, putting more seats in the stands. He just reminds me of Mike Hoffman.

Now that this is over, I'm curious to see what PDs next move is. We need another forward.

I never liked ADB or what was originally given up for him by Dorion. Glad they got a roster player and 1st back, ALSO glad its over with. I'd file this in the "meh whatever" category.

Sens Writer: DeBrincat Traded to Red Wings
- khawk

A+ for Sens Writer.

I think this was your best blog so far. Well balanced and a reasonable exploration of the issues leading up to and including the trade of DeBrincat.

Thanks for stepping up and keeping us all connected and engaged.

I, like many other Sens fans, believe that Dorion is not finished and there is another shoe to drop. I am also not sure that Tarasenko is the answer.

If the Sens offered up a package of Joseph ($3.0) and Brannstrom ($2.0) plus a 1st...what kind of return can they get?

To me this seems like more NHL level scouting weakness by a GM who has already shown a huge weakness in this regard. (pretty good amateur scout--Not sure about that Boucher pick though)

anyhooooo...

Ya. Evaluate. Anticipate. WHY is Chicago letting this guy go so easy. You could argue that the rebuild was happening, so was the tear down. Smoke and Mirrors. ADB would have been perfect age to live through a rebuild and pair with Connor 2.0
Here's the kicker on the trade yesterday. Kubalik was not resigned as an RFA with Chicago and walked for free after 2 years of nearly winning the Calder and another 2 year show me contract with the Hawks that didn't really thrill them enough to retain him. He signs on with the Wings (another up and coming but--not great team) and is again mediocre enough that Yzerman threw him into this deal as the centerpiece?

Again. Evaluate, anticipate. Why have 2 different teams basically given this guy away?? And spinning it like it's a good thing he's on an expiring contract is NOT a plus. It's a minus. Just like he is for his career. A minus player. Oh well he's scored 30 and is a 20-30 goal guy. So is anyone playing with Toews and Kane. So was Colin White playing with Duchene and Stone. World class talent will make everyone around them better. Evaluate. Anticipate.

So. I liked Alex at the time of the trade and this season. The Norris injury screwed everything up. I would have kept him at the money he signed for in Detroit however Dorion's hands were tied. He didn't want to be here. Fair enough. I'm shocked there wasn't a different deal on draft day. Some kind of package to Vancouver for the 11 pick. And yes, Vancouver could have then shipped him somewhere in the western conference..or back to Detroit in their own deal.

This is another dumb pro-deal. Proudest day type crap. Not impressed.

To me this seems like more NHL level scouting weakness by a GM who has already shown a huge weakness in this regard. (pretty good amateur scout--Not sure about that Boucher pick though)

anyhooooo...

Ya. Evaluate. Anticipate. WHY is Chicago letting this guy go so easy. You could argue that the rebuild was happening, so was the tear down. Smoke and Mirrors. ADB would have been perfect age to live through a rebuild and pair with Connor 2.0
Here's the kicker on the trade yesterday. Kubalik was not resigned as an RFA with Chicago and walked for free after 2 years of nearly winning the Calder and another 2 year show me contract with the Hawks that didn't really thrill them enough to retain him. He signs on with the Wings (another up and coming but--not great team) and is again mediocre enough that Yzerman threw him into this deal as the centerpiece?

Again. Evaluate, anticipate. Why have 2 different teams basically given this guy away?? And spinning it like it's a good thing he's on an expiring contract is NOT a plus. It's a minus. Just like he is for his career. A minus player. Oh well he's scored 30 and is a 20-30 goal guy. So is anyone playing with Toews and Kane. So was Colin White playing with Duchene and Stone. World class talent will make everyone around them better. Evaluate. Anticipate.

So. I liked Alex at the time of the trade and this season. The Norris injury screwed everything up. I would have kept him at the money he signed for in Detroit however Dorion's hands were tied. He didn't want to be here. Fair enough. I'm shocked there wasn't a different deal on draft day. Some kind of package to Vancouver for the 11 pick. And yes, Vancouver could have then shipped him somewhere in the western conference..or back to Detroit in their own deal.

This is another dumb pro-deal. Proudest day type crap. Not impressed.
- Octavarium

So, these observation appear to apply equally to DeBrincat.

All things considered, this is a decent return for Debrincat. However, it just seems that the Sens organization (i.e. Dorion) has a tendency to chase the latest shiny thing that will "put the team over the top". He has the asset management skills of an overactive stock trader that takes a hit on every stock trade.

Looking forward to a new GM with a vision of how the team is to be built, the skills to better assess pro talent and the patience to pull the trigger on high value trades.

All things considered, this is a decent return for Debrincat. However, it just seems that the Sens organization (i.e. Dorion) has a tendency to chase the latest shiny thing that will "put the team over the top". He has the asset management skills of an overactive stock trader that takes a hit on every stock trade.

Looking forward to a new GM with a vision of how the team is to be built, the skills to better assess pro talent and the patience to pull the trigger on high value trades.
- SensFan25

Your stock analogy is perfect and almost one I used. He buys high...right before the stock drops. And "experts" see it coming but he doesn't. Then he has to recoup his losses.

Overall, I am content with the Debrincat experiment. I really liked the addition last year and felt he gelled ok with the team but had more gelling to do. He had stretches of play last year where he looked like he could be a superstar. I think the Sens will miss his right handedness on the powerplay. Folks love to bring up he was only 4th in team scoring but he was 1st in powerplay points. Sens could use another right-handed shot amongst the forward group. Having too many left handedness shots can create more predictable powerplays to defend against.

The addition of a healthy Norris might be enough to withstand the subtraction of Debrincat but Dorion still needs to shore up the depth amongst the forward group. This team really can’t afford to miss the playoffs again.

This team, when healthy, looks ok on paper. However, one or two injuries, the lack of depth really shows.

To me this seems like more NHL level scouting weakness by a GM who has already shown a huge weakness in this regard. (pretty good amateur scout--Not sure about that Boucher pick though)

anyhooooo...

Ya. Evaluate. Anticipate. WHY is Chicago letting this guy go so easy. You could argue that the rebuild was happening, so was the tear down. Smoke and Mirrors. ADB would have been perfect age to live through a rebuild and pair with Connor 2.0
Here's the kicker on the trade yesterday. Kubalik was not resigned as an RFA with Chicago and walked for free after 2 years of nearly winning the Calder and another 2 year show me contract with the Hawks that didn't really thrill them enough to retain him. He signs on with the Wings (another up and coming but--not great team) and is again mediocre enough that Yzerman threw him into this deal as the centerpiece?

Again. Evaluate, anticipate. Why have 2 different teams basically given this guy away?? And spinning it like it's a good thing he's on an expiring contract is NOT a plus. It's a minus. Just like he is for his career. A minus player. Oh well he's scored 30 and is a 20-30 goal guy. So is anyone playing with Toews and Kane. So was Colin White playing with Duchene and Stone. World class talent will make everyone around them better. Evaluate. Anticipate.

So. I liked Alex at the time of the trade and this season. The Norris injury screwed everything up. I would have kept him at the money he signed for in Detroit however Dorion's hands were tied. He didn't want to be here. Fair enough. I'm shocked there wasn't a different deal on draft day. Some kind of package to Vancouver for the 11 pick. And yes, Vancouver could have then shipped him somewhere in the western conference..or back to Detroit in their own deal.

This is another dumb pro-deal. Proudest day type crap. Not impressed.
- Octavarium

This comment goes in all directions. It's just a hockey deal, relax. Oh and thinking that Vancouver would happily trade their 11th overall just for the fun of finding another trade partner to re-trade Debrincat elsewhere is... absurd.

The Detroit thread is pretty happy. I would have been too if the Sens has signed him for the exact same deal - 4 x under 8 - but that was never going to happen.

To me this seems like more NHL level scouting weakness by a GM who has already shown a huge weakness in this regard. (pretty good amateur scout--Not sure about that Boucher pick though)

anyhooooo...

Ya. Evaluate. Anticipate. WHY is Chicago letting this guy go so easy. You could argue that the rebuild was happening, so was the tear down. Smoke and Mirrors. ADB would have been perfect age to live through a rebuild and pair with Connor 2.0
Here's the kicker on the trade yesterday. Kubalik was not resigned as an RFA with Chicago and walked for free after 2 years of nearly winning the Calder and another 2 year show me contract with the Hawks that didn't really thrill them enough to retain him. He signs on with the Wings (another up and coming but--not great team) and is again mediocre enough that Yzerman threw him into this deal as the centerpiece?

Again. Evaluate, anticipate. Why have 2 different teams basically given this guy away?? And spinning it like it's a good thing he's on an expiring contract is NOT a plus. It's a minus. Just like he is for his career. A minus player. Oh well he's scored 30 and is a 20-30 goal guy. So is anyone playing with Toews and Kane. So was Colin White playing with Duchene and Stone. World class talent will make everyone around them better. Evaluate. Anticipate.

So. I liked Alex at the time of the trade and this season. The Norris injury screwed everything up. I would have kept him at the money he signed for in Detroit however Dorion's hands were tied. He didn't want to be here. Fair enough. I'm shocked there wasn't a different deal on draft day. Some kind of package to Vancouver for the 11 pick. And yes, Vancouver could have then shipped him somewhere in the western conference..or back to Detroit in their own deal.

This is another dumb pro-deal. Proudest day type crap. Not impressed.
- Octavarium

Not that anyone asked, but since I've seen both of these players first hand:

Debrincat is a pretty good hockey player. I think on average he'll end up being about a 35 goal scorer. Nothing to really sneeze at. He does lack a bit defensively, but some guys you don't really count on for that. It's goo that he is willing to at least engage defensively, and isn't afraid to go into corners.

If I had to put money on it, I would say you will get sick of Kubalik by mid-season. He has a canon of a shot from the right side and can attack the net, but his turnovers are infuriating. Both blue lines and the neutral zone. He'll go on a scoring streak and make you forget about his warts, but eventually, they come back stronger, and you are left scratching your head.

Regarding why the Hawks traded Debrincat, Davidson needed draft capital yesterday and while a talented player, Debrincat doesn't exactly play the game that they want to employ. They want the entire team to be fast/attacking/relentless and be able to forecheck. While he could have fit into not only their long term plans and their salary cap, you are basically wasting the first three years of his contract while you try and add draft assets in other ways and build the rest of the roster around him. Very similar situation with Dach.

Cheers everyone! Not really following the Sens, I was impressed with the size and talent that has been built up in Ottawa. it would be great to see them in the PO's again!

To me this seems like more NHL level scouting weakness by a GM who has already shown a huge weakness in this regard. (pretty good amateur scout--Not sure about that Boucher pick though)

anyhooooo...

Ya. Evaluate. Anticipate. WHY is Chicago letting this guy go so easy. You could argue that the rebuild was happening, so was the tear down. Smoke and Mirrors. ADB would have been perfect age to live through a rebuild and pair with Connor 2.0
Here's the kicker on the trade yesterday. Kubalik was not resigned as an RFA with Chicago and walked for free after 2 years of nearly winning the Calder and another 2 year show me contract with the Hawks that didn't really thrill them enough to retain him. He signs on with the Wings (another up and coming but--not great team) and is again mediocre enough that Yzerman threw him into this deal as the centerpiece?

Again. Evaluate, anticipate. Why have 2 different teams basically given this guy away?? And spinning it like it's a good thing he's on an expiring contract is NOT a plus. It's a minus. Just like he is for his career. A minus player. Oh well he's scored 30 and is a 20-30 goal guy. So is anyone playing with Toews and Kane. So was Colin White playing with Duchene and Stone. World class talent will make everyone around them better. Evaluate. Anticipate.

So. I liked Alex at the time of the trade and this season. The Norris injury screwed everything up. I would have kept him at the money he signed for in Detroit however Dorion's hands were tied. He didn't want to be here. Fair enough. I'm shocked there wasn't a different deal on draft day. Some kind of package to Vancouver for the 11 pick. And yes, Vancouver could have then shipped him somewhere in the western conference..or back to Detroit in their own deal.

This is another dumb pro-deal. Proudest day type crap. Not impressed.
- Octavarium

You can try and spin this anyway you want. But this is a great deal by Yzerman for a very talented player. Some of what you're saying is nonsense. Chicago traded Debrincat because they started a full-on rebuild / teardown and wanted a 1st round draft pick (Korchinski). That's not rocket science.

Red Wings still have roughly $8 million in cap space after terminating Filip Zadina’s contract on Friday and moving Kubalik. That's pretty good asset management in my book. I'm assuming Yzerman is done dealing at this point. But he does have some flexibility at the trade deadline if needed. That doesn't hurt.

You sound like you're sour grapes since NY Islanders didn't get him. Rumor was he passed on 8 years deals from both Anaheim and NY Islanders since he wanted to play in Detroit... regardless, most Wings' fans are pretty happy right now. Getting a real sniper / pure goal scorer is something they've need for several years.

They get DeBrincat’s prime years at a team-friendly rate. Love the fact we got him on a 4 year deal. I'll take this deal anytime. He's only 25 and he's no longer playing for a divisional rival. Not losing any top prospects in this deal is huge. He'll most likely be a piece of the new core. He'll be on the top line in Detroit and I'm not at all worried about his point production. Good work by Yzerman.

Im an Islanders fan living in Ottawa.(with Sens seasons tickets)
I AM sour.
I liked the trade at the time for Ottawa, but digging deeper it just looks like our GM gave a great pick to one team and a great player to another team and only really got a 1 year rental of a player who ---- Chicago and Detroit probably knew wouldn't sign in Ottawa.

dumb

now he's gonna go and sign Tarasenko to too much money.
Kovalev the second coming

Im an Islanders fan living in Ottawa.(with Sens seasons tickets)
I AM sour.
I liked the trade at the time for Ottawa, but digging deeper it just looks like our GM gave a great pick to one team and a great player to another team and only really got a 1 year rental of a player who ---- Chicago and Detroit probably knew wouldn't sign in Ottawa.

dumb

now he's gonna go and sign Tarasenko to too much money.
Kovalev the second coming
- Octavarium

The frustration is understandable. When you compare the two Debrincat deals, it is hard to not say Dorion lost with his experiment.

My issue with the Debrincat experiment is that Dorion didn’t do his due diligence on the player to see if it was realistic of him to stay here long term. Additionally, Dorion’s other moves didn’t jive with acquiring/potentially signing Debrincat. As much as everyone loves the Zub, that newly signed contract at 4.7 might be a hurdle down the line now that you have Chychrun. Having Giroux on this team is great right now and worked last year but long term, it causes inability to sign a player like Debrincat. Dorion also doesn’t seem willing to move contracts like Forsberg and Joseph and replace them with similar and cheaper players.

It almost seemed as though Dorion was trying for a miracle run last year. Teams often need to add short term parts to get over the hump, but this team was too far away to do that.

I liked the deal at this time last year. Not a huge fan of how things turned out, but it is what it is. There is some money now to sign Pinto and get a reinforcement or two for the forward depth.

I’d be shocked if Tarashenko is brought in. I assume his demands are close to 6-7 mill per at least. He's in the same conversation as Debrincat in terms of the skill he provides. However, if you can get him at 1 year for 3 mill or something because the market sucks, then maybe it’s worth it.

So, Sens President of Business Operations resigned effective immediately. First, clear sign of a new ownership group about to take control.

We need to give some serious thought to who we would like to see appointed as President of Hockey Ops. I am expecting that will be the first decision the new ownership group will make. If so, it probably locks Dorion and Smith into their current roles for the full year..

Cyril Leeder was advisor to Andulaur during bidding process. In Leeder's previous stay as President of Business Ops the Sens were averaging close to 20k per night in attendance

I’d be shocked if Tarashenko is brought in. I assume his demands are close to 6-7 mill per at least. He's in the same conversation as Debrincat in terms of the skill he provides. However, if you can get him at 1 year for 3 mill or something because the market sucks, then maybe it’s worth it.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

When I look at the numbers on capfriendly, I see just over $5M left to sign Pinto and another forward. There is no cap room left for any major additions.

Sens need to do something. Yes they'll have Norris + Kubalik added to that young core but average management of assets is not good enough. Tarasenko or another asset needs to come into the org!

When I look at the numbers on capfriendly, I see just over $5M left to sign Pinto and another forward. There is no cap room left for any major additions.
- SensFan25

This is the part I find so head scratching. People believed that Dorion was actively trying to sign DeBrincat. There was never any money to sign DeBrincat.

When Sanderson had such a great rookie season and then when the Sens acquired Chychrun it was clear that there was no money available for DeBrincat. Not even close. I idea that Dorion wanted to do a long term deal with DeBrincat was a huge fib.

I, like many other Sens fans, believe that Dorion is not finished and there is another shoe to drop. I am also not sure that Tarasenko is the answer.

If the Sens offered up a package of Joseph ($3.0) and Brannstrom ($2.0) plus a 1st...what kind of return can they get?
- spatso

I think they save that kinda deal for the trade deadline, see where they are at.

This is the part I find so head scratching. People believed that Dorion was actively trying to sign DeBrincat. There was never any money to sign DeBrincat.

When Sanderson had such a great rookie season and then when the Sens acquired Chychrun it was clear that there was no money available for DeBrincat. Not even close. I idea that Dorion wanted to do a long term deal with DeBrincat was a huge fib.
- spatso

Yup. It's quite obvious looking at the numbers now. The additions of Chycrun and Korpisalo used up the cap space needed to sign Debrincat.

Deal?

To Philadelphia
Shane Pinto, Tyler Boucher, Mathieu Joseph, 2021 1st (OTT)

To Ottawa
Scott Laughton, Travis Konecny

*Hard to give up Pinto but Ridly Grieg, Ostapchuck are here

Just kind of surprised at all the whining about the DeBrincat deal. It has become pretty obvious that DeBrincat only wanted to sign in Detroit which will limit the return Ottawa got. I'm okay with the return. The first round pick was a surprise as I thought Yzerman would never give up one of his 2 first round picks. Detroit will like DeBrincat and what he brings to the power play, but they will not be impressed by his 5 on 5 play where his size is a disadvantage.
As for Ottawa, Norris will take up DeBrincat's spot on the powerplay. He thrived there before he got injured.
As for Kubalik .... let's see how he meshes with Norris and Batherson for a season. If we end up getting a replacement and bump Kubalik down to the 3rd line then all the better.
I like the fact that Dorion made a big swing for the fences with the initial DeBrincat trade. It didn't work out. But every NHL manager has a past with trades like this littering their records. What Ottawa won't miss is the -31 that DeBrincat racked up showing a lack of overall defensive awareness.

Next up for the new ownership will be a rebuilding of the front office and the management staff .... more scouts, etc. For the time being we have Dorion and DJ. We'll see how that goes over the season. But I expect another fairly big trade (or 2) where some previous draft capital get's spent to acquire what is needed.

Good blog though. Lots to think about, and now its time for the Sens to move onwards and upwards and get players that want to be here.

Deal?

To Philadelphia
Shane Pinto, Tyler Boucher, Mathieu Joseph, 2021 1st (OTT)

To Ottawa
Scott Laughton, Travis Konecny


*Hard to give up Pinto but Ridly Grieg, Ostapchuck are here
- AlfieisKing

Philly is not doing that deal. I don't think Konecny is truly on the trade block. I think the Flyers want him for the rebuild.
But I do think Laughton is acquirable. Boucher, Joseph or one of them and a 2nd round pick. Probably would need Joseph included to make the cap space.


Although it also would not surprise me to see Ottawa chuck out a 4rth rounder to nab an LTIR player like Bryan Little from Arizona in order for us to exceed the cap space for this season. Little only has 1 year left so we would not have to carry it long term.