Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Scoring Woes, Trade Deadline, Phantoms and More

https://www.inquirer.com/...yk-deangelo-20230227.html

“I wonder about Tony DeAngelo, too,” Friedman said. “The tough thing about DeAngelo is it’s not working this year, but they gave up a lot to get him. I think they’ve had interest on DeAngelo; one of the teams I’ve wondered about is Carolina possibly reacquiring him.”

Trading DeAngelo just 60 or so games in, after the team was willing to overlook his off-ice baggage, trade three picks, and commit $10 million to the defenseman, would certainly be an admission of guilt by the organization. That said, DeAngelo has been a liability defensively as expected and Tortorella has said as much. While the deal was a mistake in the first place, admitting wrongdoing and recouping some picks would be a positive step.

------------------------

I can't imagine Carolina is willing to trade for him back unless the Flyers retain 50% of his salary and are only asking for a 7th but we shall see. The TDA trade was a slow motion car wreck that anyone could see from the beginning from a GM who was still pushing the reload narrative. The other part of this would be Fletcher admitting guilt ... on anything.

The way things are going it's looking like Tortorella will handle all the announcements for the rest of the year. Fletch is hiding up in the C suite.

Can we trade Chuck for future considerations?

However, you can't just neglect the offensive side of the game and basically just leave it at "Grind harder, boys!" You also can't chalk it all up to the checking getting tighter leaguewide after the All-Star break. The Flyers have a way to go to be an average team offensively or in terms of puck possession. They seemed to be making strides offensively for a month but have backslid again significantly.

They're still not consistent enough defensively, so further improvement is clearly still needed. Meanwhile, they are downright weak offensively. I don't think "defend better, grind more" mantra is going to work as a solution for generating more on the offensive side of the game.

I think the next steps have to be geared toward defend better and have the puck more (even if it doesn't bump the GPG up much). The Flyers were slowly but steadily improving in possession at one point this season but they're back to getting hemmed in way too often and also giving up way too many high-danger chances and the types of goals where the goalies don't have a fair chance at a making a save.

When that happens for too long, inevitably, it drags the goalies down right with it.

For those who thought Tortorella was going to be the difference, this is why he is not. Grinding harder just does not work in the long term. Simplifying the defence makes it easier to be in the correct position but also makes it easier on the opposing team to do what they want to do in the offensive zone. Just because you are asking your team to do less doesn't make them a better team, it means they aren't capable of elevating their game.

For Fletcher who thought this was a playoff team, otherwise why take what few assets the Flyers had last offseason and throw them at TDA and first liner ND to put them over the top, another massive miscalculation.

Bill mentions the weak offense as the Flyers are a capped out team that keeps buying scratch offs hoping for the long shot. If they trade Hayes it will be with large salary cap retention which keeps hurting the Flyers going forward and another offensive hole which needs to be filled.

The Flyers should've been hoarding cap space and picks. Trading short term cap space for additional picks like Minnesota and looking towards the draft starting last offseason and instead the Flyers don't have a 2nd round pick until 2025 because "bias for action".

Fletcher has yet to announce the Flyers are bottoming out, leaving it to $4 mill/yr mouthpiece Torts but does it really matter? The Flyers have few assets to trade, they aren't Chicago with aging all-stars who can sell them off for 1sts. The Flyers are like Sears. An aging company whose management didn't keep up with the times, with out of touch aging management who think it is still the 1990s as they fade away.

The reason the Flyers don’t score goals is because they badly lack speed and skill amongst their forward group. It’s only going to be worse with TK out.

Other teams aren’t exactly shaking in their skates when facing the offensive juggernaut that is Hayes/Frost/Tippett/Farabee et al.

Now add in a D that lacks top pairing talent and, unless the goaltender stands on his head, you get a team that will be “lucky” to win more than 3 or 4 games the rest of this season.

Congrats Cuckles, you took over a bad team and now, over 4 years later, it’s worse.

Can we trade Chuck for future considerations?
- bird_dog_pa

What exactly is that guy's worth? 2 paper clips and rubber band.

Flyers are a dumpster fire. And the moron in charge is sitting quietly. The Flyers are not even in any of the rumors. How did it get this bad? By adhering to a belief that the way to win is with large, knuckle dragging, slow, grinding players who are devoid of any semblance of skill. And oh yes, to also overpay all of those individuals.

Oh no...Risto was on the list but sanhiem wasn't. meltdowns coming.

"As I reported on Monday morning, the Flyers discussed the possibility of acquiring Denis Gurianov for van Riemsdyk, before Gurianov was ultimately sent to Montreal for Evgenii Dadonov. Given that Minnesota is also interested in JvR — Michael Russo reported as much on Sunday — it’s fair to wonder if they might have the same line of thinking surrounding another reclamation project in Jordan Greenway, who is very much on the market. Greenway is 26 and has two more years left at $3 million, so he’s not a player with a ton of market value at the moment, given he has just six points in 43 games this season. But he brings size and physicality to the table, which would be especially intriguing to the old-school minds with influence in the Philadelphia brain trust, and he was a Fletcher draft pick in 2015. Just some food for thought, if the Flyers are intent on getting back a possible future piece from a van Riemsdyk trade."
- Charlie O'Connor

Greenway, born to be a Flyer.

At this point all of the hockey operations personnel need to be blown out the door.
Maybe keep Briere and have him tutor under a modern era thinking GM who doesn’t get embarrassed every trade deadline and offseason.
Torts isn’t wrong about having a team identity. The problem is he isn’t the right coach to get it done.
I don’t understand how the powers that be could have any confidence in DS or CF.

Fletcher's MO is to double down versus cut bait. With Risto it was clear he gave up waayy too much to get him for what he brings and yet Fletcher signed him to a ridiculous 5 year extension. Fletcher gave up 3 more picks for DeAngelo and again signed him to an extension. He is not going to cut bait now, no way. Yesterday Torts signaled during his presser that he believes DeAngelo is part of the solution here, stating DeAngelo has one of the best first passes out of his own end in the league. To be honest I have never heard a coach praise a defenseman in this way and for a second I wondered if Torts was just trying to prop up DeAngelo's trade value. But then again Torts has been nothing but brutally honest in his pressers this year, so maybe he really meant it. To conclude, I can't see Fletcher giving up on DeAngelo any time soon.

The fact Tortorella came out already and said the team is going to suck next year is a disgrace. Way to energize the fanbase Fonz. (frank)ing gong show from pillar to post.

For those who thought Tortorella was going to be the difference, this is why he is not. Grinding harder just does not work in the long term. Simplifying the defence makes it easier to be in the correct position but also makes it easier on the opposing team to do what they want to do in the offensive zone. Just because you are asking your team to do less doesn't make them a better team, it means they aren't capable of elevating their game.

For Fletcher who thought this was a playoff team, otherwise why take what few assets the Flyers had last offseason and throw them at TDA and first liner ND to put them over the top, another massive miscalculation.

Bill mentions the weak offense as the Flyers are a capped out team that keeps buying scratch offs hoping for the long shot. If they trade Hayes it will be with large salary cap retention which keeps hurting the Flyers going forward and another offensive hole which needs to be filled.

The Flyers should've been hoarding cap space and picks. Trading short term cap space for additional picks like Minnesota and looking towards the draft starting last offseason and instead the Flyers don't have a 2nd round pick until 2025 because "bias for action".

Fletcher has yet to announce the Flyers are bottoming out, leaving it to $4 mill/yr mouthpiece Torts but does it really matter? The Flyers have few assets to trade, they aren't Chicago with aging all-stars who can sell them off for 1sts. The Flyers are like Sears. An aging company whose management didn't keep up with the times, with out of touch aging management who think it is still the 1990s as they fade away.
- Flyers_01

what exactly did people think he was going to be the difference for? Nonstop talk pre season was that this was a bottom 5 team.

JVR has never reached 50 points as a Flyer, not once. Last year he was a -33 and this year has only 9 goals and is scoring at a 0.5 point a game clip. What do you honestly think a team would pay for that?? The Flyers are lucky if they get a 3rd round pick for JVR at this point, he wasn't that good when the Flyers signed him and his best years are well behind him at this point. The only way the Flyers get a 2nd is if they take on more bad contracts or they give up a good prospect in the deal. I am not expecting much from this deadline. Torts stated they are selling, but the shelves are pretty bare at this point.

The Chuck presser will be a ton of clichés and deflections,

They are not even a top bottom five team.

JVR has never reached 50 points as a Flyer, not once. Last year he was a -33 and this year has only 9 goals and is scoring at a 0.5 point a game clip. What do you honestly think a team would pay for that?? The Flyers are lucky if they get a 3rd round pick for JVR at this point, he wasn't that good when the Flyers signed him and his best years are well behind him at this point. The only way the Flyers get a 2nd is if they take on more bad contracts or they give up a good prospect in the deal. I am not expecting much from this deadline. Torts stated they are selling, but the shelves are pretty bare at this point.
- jd250

Why would we ever pair JVr with a good prospect to get a second round pick?

They are not even a top bottom five team.
- Sinisalo4vr

20 games to decide that. With TK now out, there’s really no one to go to for offense so hopefully we can drop a few more spots

They are not even a top bottom five team.
- Sinisalo4vr

Best case at this point is they end with the 6th worse record, which gives them a chance to get lucky, and might be close enough where they can make a deal to move up a few spots to get the player they target. I'll state it again, this is the draft to get your 1C for the near future. The Flyers need to do whatever it takes to get the player they target.

TdA is not part of the solution, nor should they have wasted 3 picks to acquire him. Travis Sanheim should not have been extended, he should have been traded at last year’s draft for futures. Risto should have been moved at last year’s deadline.

Acquiring DeAngelo and the failure to move the other 2 D I mentioned are why this team will keep floundering in mediocrity. This organization keeps trying to endlessly retool while the rest of the league just skates on by laughing.

And for those of you who think Danny Briere is the answer, stop kidding yourselves. He wouldn’t be in the position he’s in if he didn’t toe the company line. Nothing short of a complete house cleaning of the hockey ops dept is going to fix this team.

JVR has never reached 50 points as a Flyer, not once. Last year he was a -33 and this year has only 9 goals and is scoring at a 0.5 point a game clip. What do you honestly think a team would pay for that?? The Flyers are lucky if they get a 3rd round pick for JVR at this point, he wasn't that good when the Flyers signed him and his best years are well behind him at this point. The only way the Flyers get a 2nd is if they take on more bad contracts or they give up a good prospect in the deal. I am not expecting much from this deadline. Torts stated they are selling, but the shelves are pretty bare at this point.
- jd250

Playoff healthy scratch in both Flyers tenures.

The Chuck presser will be a ton of clichés and deflections,
- THE EVIL WITHIN

And one softball after another lobbed to him from the crack media.

TdA is not part of the solution, nor should they have wasted 3 picks to acquire him. Travis Sanheim should not have been extended, he should have been traded at last year’s draft for futures. Risto should have been moved at last year’s deadline.

Acquiring DeAngelo and the failure to move the other 2 D I mentioned are why this team will keep floundering in mediocrity. This organization keeps trying to endlessly retool while the rest of the league just skates on by laughing.

And for those of you who think Danny Briere is the answer, stop kidding yourselves. He wouldn’t be in the position he’s in if he didn’t toe the company line. Nothing short of a complete house cleaning of the hockey ops dept is going to fix this team.
- BiggE

Saying this for a while now, Sanheim or Provy should have been moved last year. Talked to Danny a bit back, I think folks have a misguided view on him. He wasn’t happy about the season at all and didn’t sugarcoat anything. And this is when they were doing ok for what they were

Greenway, born to be a Flyer.
- Tomahawk

Allison, MacEwen, Tippet, ….how many power forward prospects does one team need?

TdA is not part of the solution, nor should they have wasted 3 picks to acquire him. Travis Sanheim should not have been extended, he should have been traded at last year’s draft for futures. Risto should have been moved at last year’s deadline.

Acquiring DeAngelo and the failure to move the other 2 D I mentioned are why this team will keep floundering in mediocrity. This organization keeps trying to endlessly retool while the rest of the league just skates on by laughing.

And for those of you who think Danny Briere is the answer, stop kidding yourselves. He wouldn’t be in the position he’s in if he didn’t toe the company line. Nothing short of a complete house cleaning of the hockey ops dept is going to fix this team.
- BiggE

I’ve started to wonder about Briere although Montreal had interest in him at one time.