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Forums :: Blog World :: Theo Fox: Excess Baggage
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Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jun 14 @ 3:00 AM ET
Theo Fox: Excess Baggage A look at what to do with the glut of Blackhawks forwards this offseason in preparation for the drafts, free agency period, and trade market.
35Tony0
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Springfield, IL
Joined: 05.10.2015

Jun 14 @ 6:27 AM ET
Thank you, Theo. Lots of forwards with lots of compete. Can Strome and Nylander get to that level? Back checking intensity is the tell for that.

Also, appreciate the section on Stephen Johns. Pretty top shelf action there for a guy to get through the tough times then offer himself to help others. Makes me love hockey all the more.
powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Jun 14 @ 8:11 AM ET
Thanks Theo - there is some work to be done this off-season. I think it is time to pass on Nylander, what was proven this past season was he was not missed, he will not make a difference. Am I saying he does not have talent, no! But I believe you need to trade talent to get talent.
Angotti
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2019

Jun 14 @ 8:35 AM ET
Thanks Theo, nice write up. First of all, I would not sign any of the Hawk UFA’s, the Hawks should move on from all of them including Vinnie. I also doubt we will miss whomever the Kraken takes. I am looking forward to seeing what Borgstrom and Gaudette bring, maybe we get lucky there. This is not the time to make a splash in free agency, stay the course, keep adding young assets either through trades, Europe, or draft.
TheTrob
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Oak Park, IL
Joined: 04.14.2010

Jun 14 @ 9:19 AM ET
Thanks Theo - there is some work to be done this off-season. I think it is time to pass on Nylander, what was proven this past season was he was not missed, he will not make a difference. Am I saying he does not have talent, no! But I believe you need to trade talent to get talent.
- powerenforcer


Why pass? He is a kid with only about a year of NHL experience. He is not going to cost you much, and he obviously has skills. If he were 28+, with a few seasons of NHL experience and asking for more money and/or term at that point maybe you take a pass. Sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal for low money. If he works out great, if not, no harm.

Nylander is the perfect example of how it's easy to be a GM on the boards, not so easy in reality. Dump a 23 year old who figures it out and you're an Idiot, keep the same 23 year old and he doesn't work out and your an Idiot. Dump him and it doesn't work out, you're an Idiot for not getting rid/trading him sooner, keep him an he shines, it's why didn't you sign him for longer term/lower salary. It's a no-win situation for a GM.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jun 14 @ 10:02 AM ET

Today @ 8:11 AM ET
Thanks Theo - there is some work to be done this off-season. I think it is time to pass on Nylander, what was proven this past season was he was not missed, he will not make a difference. Am I saying he does not have talent, no! But I believe you need to trade talent to get talent.

Powerenforcer

Then i guess we should write off and trade Dach also. Same # of NHL games played and same statistics. Dach didn't make a difference last year either. In fact the Hawks record was worse with Dach in than when he was injured.

powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Jun 14 @ 10:11 AM ET
Today @ 8:11 AM ET
Thanks Theo - there is some work to be done this off-season. I think it is time to pass on Nylander, what was proven this past season was he was not missed, he will not make a difference. Am I saying he does not have talent, no! But I believe you need to trade talent to get talent.

Powerenforcer

Then i guess we should write off and trade Dach also. Same # of NHL games played and same statistics. Dach didn't make a difference last year either. In fact the Hawks record was worse with Dach in than when he was injured.

- LAHawk



Apples to oranges. When Dach played he showed his needle was moving upward. I guess you missed my comment, trade talent to get talent. My reasoning is that Nylander is 1 of many possible young players. Try to trade him for a bigger need (defense) or a higher draft pick. At some point a GM has to make tough decisions. And yes it is easy for us who are behind a keyboard to make them. But that is just my opinion.

Edit: this response is to both TheTrob and LAHawk.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jun 14 @ 10:16 AM ET
Apples to oranges. When Dach played he showed his needle was moving upward. I guess you missed my comment, trade talent to get talent. My reasoning is that Nylander is 1 of many possible young players. Try to trade him for a bigger need (defense) or a higher draft pick. At some point a GM has to make tough decisions. And yes it is easy for us who are behind a keyboard to make them. But that is just my opinion.
- powerenforcer


I would rather trade a David Kampf that is what he is at 26, and yes Kubalik at 26, if you are truly rebuilding. His next contract will be the Brandon Saad conundrum all over again
Ogilthorpe2
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 37,000 FT
Joined: 07.09.2009

Jun 14 @ 10:17 AM ET
Why pass? He is a kid with only about a year of NHL experience. He is not going to cost you much, and he obviously has skills. If he were 28+, with a few seasons of NHL experience and asking for more money and/or term at that point maybe you take a pass. Sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal for low money. If he works out great, if not, no harm.

Nylander is the perfect example of how it's easy to be a GM on the boards, not so easy in reality. Dump a 23 year old who figures it out and you're an Idiot, keep the same 23 year old and he doesn't work out and your an Idiot. Dump him and it doesn't work out, you're an Idiot for not getting rid/trading him sooner, keep him an he shines, it's why didn't you sign him for longer term/lower salary. It's a no-win situation for a GM.

- TheTrob

He’s garbage. I’d leave him unprotected, and if the Kraken want him they can have him. Gaudette showed me more in his brief stint than Nylander has so far.
powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Jun 14 @ 10:20 AM ET
I would rather trade a David Kampf that is what he is at 26, and yes Kubalik at 26, if you are truly rebuilding. His next contract will be the Brandon Saad conundrum all over again
- LAHawk


Do we know Toews will be back? I would not rush to move Kampf UNTIL I KNOW 100% the status of Toews. You need someone who can win a faceoff.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jun 14 @ 10:37 AM ET
Do we know Toews will be back? I would not rush to move Kampf UNTIL I KNOW 100% the status of Toews. You need someone who can win a faceoff.
- powerenforcer


And Kampf as a great defensive player? Sure doesn't show on the PK, 4th worst PK in the league. If you want to win face offs and have a better PK, sign Luke Glendening for the same amount. I would rather let Entwhistle grow into the job as 4th line center, penalty killer. Looks like Dach/DeBrinket are going to be PK'ers also.
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jun 14 @ 11:12 AM ET
Thanks for the blog Theo:
Hinostroza, Suter and Hagel are the makings of a nice cost friendly 4th line. Yes, on a good team that's where they belong. There's Dach, Kane and DeBrinkat. After that not much matters (which is why Stan is not concerned about Seattle) outside of hopefuls Reichel and Borgstrom. Nylander and Connolly are the same animal, 13th Forwards at the moment.

Somebody posted yesterday what matters most are:
1. Big Blueline
2. Competent coaching
3. Correctly evaluating roster/talent
4. I don't remember 4.

I got stuck on 3. It's time we get real. In order to win your 4th line needs to be the best 4th line, 3rd line the best 3rd line, 2nd line the best 2nd line, you get the picture. Anything else are simply place holders as players and put you in the middle of the pack. Of course it's not this simple there are multiple intangibles (Jonathan Toews will to win in his prime) but realistically it's closer to this than not.

Scouting report respectfully submitted.

PS. Who's in goal? Stan determined last season Chicago was not yet in a position for it to matter.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jun 14 @ 1:33 PM ET
https://www.sportsnet.ca/...on-permission-talk-teams/

Will Stan bite?
tvetter
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burkesville, KY
Joined: 12.16.2015

Jun 14 @ 1:45 PM ET
Thanks for the blog Theo:
Hinostroza, Suter and Hagel are the makings of a nice cost friendly 4th line. Yes, on a good team that's where they belong. There's Dach, Kane and DeBrinkat. After that not much matters (which is why Stan is not concerned about Seattle) outside of hopefuls Reichel and Borgstrom. Nylander and Connolly are the same animal, 13th Forwards at the moment.

Somebody posted yesterday what matters most are:
1. Big Blueline
2. Competent coaching
3. Correctly evaluating roster/talent
4. I don't remember 4.

I got stuck on 3. It's time we get real. In order to win your 4th line needs to be the best 4th line, 3rd line the best 3rd line, 2nd line the best 2nd line, you get the picture. Anything else are simply place holders as players and put you in the middle of the pack. Of course it's not this simple there are multiple intangibles (Jonathan Toews will to win in his prime) but realistically it's closer to this than not.

Scouting report respectfully submitted.

PS. Who's in goal? Stan determined last season Chicago was not yet in a position for it to matter.

- rpeters01

Agree with most of what you said, but I think Suter would be a solid middle 6 player, and Hagel may even be better. They were both in the top 10 for rookie scoring, and Hagel often played with below average quality of teammates (at least offensively). If Hagel would have gotten the playing time that Suter got, and played with Kane and ADB more, he probably would have been top 5. Hagel's puck retrieval abilities would be great to have on a good 4th line, but his offense, especially his passing, puts him higher IMHO.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Orange, CA
Joined: 11.06.2015

Jun 14 @ 1:56 PM ET
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/hurricanes-give-dougie-hamilton-permission-talk-teams/

Will Stan bite?

- LAHawk


God I hope not. At this point in time, what does it achieve? You are likely going to burn the first 2-3 years of his contract just clawing to get back in the playoffs.

It's not my money, but I'd just continue to build slowly.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jun 14 @ 2:00 PM ET
God I hope not. At this point in time, what does it achieve? You are likely going to burn the first 2-3 years of his contract just clawing to get back in the playoffs.

It's not my money, but I'd just continue to build slowly.

- Chunk


I agree, but some on this board think the rebuild is over, and the Hawks should be playoff contenders.
powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Jun 14 @ 2:15 PM ET
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/hurricanes-give-dougie-hamilton-permission-talk-teams/

Will Stan bite?

- LAHawk


Please no!
StLBravesFan
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2011

Jun 14 @ 2:16 PM ET
God I hope not. At this point in time, what does it achieve? You are likely going to burn the first 2-3 years of his contract just clawing to get back in the playoffs.

It's not my money, but I'd just continue to build slowly.

- Chunk

Hamilton will be 28 next Sunday. If we assume the Blackhawks will be ready to compete for a Cup in 2023-24 (the third season from now), he will be 30. He would be 31 if the contention would be delayed for another season.

Looking at the Final-4 teams this season, the remaining teams have several to many players in his age range:

Tampa - 12 of 21 are 29 or older
Montreal - 12 of 23 are 28 or older
Islanders - 12 of 21 are 29 or older
VGK - 15 of 25 are 28 or older.

Don’t completely ignore getting players who would be 28 or older in a couple of years, when we hope the Hawks will be Cup contenders. Youth seemingly needs experience around them to go far in the tournament.

Of the 37 players on the Hawks roster this year, 18 were 24 or younger. Only Kubalik (25], Lankinen (25], and Kane could probably be considered impact players at 25 or older - even include Keith and Toews. I’m hoping Bowman et.al are thinking about finding some experience even this soon into the rebuild - otherwise we could be looking at 5 years before Cup contention.

Hamilton may not be the guy - let's not completely ignore players his age.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Orange, CA
Joined: 11.06.2015

Jun 14 @ 2:30 PM ET
Hamilton will be 28 next Sunday. If we assume the Blackhawks will be ready to compete for a Cup in 2023-24 (the third season from now), he will be 30. He would be 31 if the contention would be delayed for another season.

Looking at the Final-4 teams this season, the remaining teams have several to many players in his age range:

Tampa - 12 of 21 are 29 or older
Montreal - 12 of 23 are 28 or older
Islanders - 12 of 21 are 29 or older
VGK - 15 of 25 are 28 or older.

Don’t completely ignore getting players who would be 28 or older in a couple of years, when we hope the Hawks will be Cup contenders. Youth seemingly needs experience around them to go far in the tournament.

Of the 37 players on the Hawks roster this year, 18 were 24 or younger. Only Kubalik (25], Lankinen (25], and Kane could probably be considered impact players at 25 or older - even include Keith and Toews. I’m hoping Bowman et.al are thinking about finding some experience even this soon into the rebuild - otherwise we could be looking at 5 years before Cup contention.

Hamilton may not be the guy - let's not completely ignore players his age.

- StLBravesFan


I'm going to sound sort of defeatist here, but I think many people are just assuming that the Hawks are inevitably going to get back to being Cup contenders (or at least a perennial playoff team) in the next 3 years. The Hawks could just as easily become Buffalo/AZ/EDM. I am personally assuming that the Hawks are AT LEAST 5 years out from being a cup contender.

I'm not discounting players of that age, but I think the Hawks need to be able to show they can compete to a certain level before they bring on a guy who is going to command that kind of contract. I don't see one guy propelling this team to meaningful results. Especially not Hamilton.
Rota's Rooter
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.23.2017

Jun 14 @ 2:33 PM ET
Today @ 8:11 AM ET
Thanks Theo - there is some work to be done this off-season. I think it is time to pass on Nylander, what was proven this past season was he was not missed, he will not make a difference. Am I saying he does not have talent, no! But I believe you need to trade talent to get talent.

Powerenforcer

Then i guess we should write off and trade Dach also. Same # of NHL games played and same statistics. Dach didn't make a difference last year either. In fact the Hawks record was worse with Dach in than when he was injured.

- LAHawk

You mean Kirby "Made of Glass" Dach?
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jun 14 @ 2:33 PM ET
Hamilton will be 28 next Sunday. If we assume the Blackhawks will be ready to compete for a Cup in 2023-24 (the third season from now), he will be 30. He would be 31 if the contention would be delayed for another season.

Looking at the Final-4 teams this season, the remaining teams have several to many players in his age range:

Tampa - 12 of 21 are 29 or older
Montreal - 12 of 23 are 28 or older
Islanders - 12 of 21 are 29 or older
VGK - 15 of 25 are 28 or older.

Don’t completely ignore getting players who would be 28 or older in a couple of years, when we hope the Hawks will be Cup contenders. Youth seemingly needs experience around them to go far in the tournament.

Of the 37 players on the Hawks roster this year, 18 were 24 or younger. Only Kubalik (25], Lankinen (25], and Kane could probably be considered impact players at 25 or older - even include Keith and Toews. I’m hoping Bowman et.al are thinking about finding some experience even this soon into the rebuild - otherwise we could be looking at 5 years before Cup contention.

Hamilton may not be the guy - let's not completely ignore players his age.

- StLBravesFan


In 2 years the Hawks have only 18 out of 50 contracts signed. What we see in 2 years will look nothing like the Hawks of today. The 18 include Toews and Seabrook, 10 will still be on their ELC's.
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jun 14 @ 2:35 PM ET
I agree, but some on this board think the rebuild is over, and the Hawks should be playoff contenders.
- LAHawk


TheTrob
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Oak Park, IL
Joined: 04.14.2010

Jun 14 @ 2:35 PM ET
Hamilton will be 28 next Sunday. If we assume the Blackhawks will be ready to compete for a Cup in 2023-24 (the third season from now), he will be 30. He would be 31 if the contention would be delayed for another season.

Looking at the Final-4 teams this season, the remaining teams have several to many players in his age range:

Tampa - 12 of 21 are 29 or older
Montreal - 12 of 23 are 28 or older
Islanders - 12 of 21 are 29 or older
VGK - 15 of 25 are 28 or older.

Don’t completely ignore getting players who would be 28 or older in a couple of years, when we hope the Hawks will be Cup contenders. Youth seemingly needs experience around them to go far in the tournament.

Of the 37 players on the Hawks roster this year, 18 were 24 or younger. Only Kubalik (25], Lankinen (25], and Kane could probably be considered impact players at 25 or older - even include Keith and Toews. I’m hoping Bowman et.al are thinking about finding some experience even this soon into the rebuild - otherwise we could be looking at 5 years before Cup contention.

Hamilton may not be the guy - let's not completely ignore players his age.

- StLBravesFan


I don't think it's his age that is the problem. If you are going to go sign a defenseman, maybe try and get one that can at least play defense.
kmw4631
Location: CHICAGO
Joined: 02.27.2015

Jun 14 @ 3:11 PM ET
I think the reason that its even going to be discussed is we need someone that can play top paring on a good team and we have no one. IMO. If hamilton ends up # 1RD it bumps down murph and boquist 2nd and 3rd lines. if it was me I would trade keith if Hamilton is not going to be good when we are a playoff team in 2 years then keith wont be either.

Kalynuk-Hamilton
Beudin/mitchell-Murph
ZAD/boquist

adding one guy really makes all the other lines better as well. alot will depend on can kevin L take a step forward. Can Dach, Borgstrom, Nylander, Reichel gaudette all play up to expecations. and slot effectivley in a top 9 that includes kane Cat, kubalik and suter. that would leave Kampf hagel connely carpenter kurashev to play on the 4th line.

paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: YYZ
Joined: 06.26.2011

Jun 14 @ 3:24 PM ET
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/hurricanes-give-dougie-hamilton-permission-talk-teams/

Will Stan bite?

- LAHawk

Hopefully not. The last thing the Hawks need is a 28 year old good, not great defenseman, who’s lack of physicality in a big man will drive most of this board crazy.
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