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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 5/7/21 @ WSH
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Dkos
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Gritty, PA
Joined: 01.15.2007

May 7 @ 12:35 PM ET
Dont agree for a number of reasons
1) No goalie should be the best payed player on the team simple that he cant do 82 games

- goenzoy


But the goalie plays the whole game and the skater is only on the ice for a third of the game
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 7 @ 12:36 PM ET
[quote=PT21]I thought about this, and it seems he would really need to think he is a superstar for that to happen. If he takes a 1 year deal, (and its not going to be a Taylor Hall style 1 year deal), can you imagine the pressure on the kid? If he flops similar to this year, he is looking at a career as a backup for the next few years.

Double post
Dkos
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Gritty, PA
Joined: 01.15.2007

May 7 @ 12:37 PM ET
what will our answer to tom wilson be
- 2Real


To meekly avoid confrontation?
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 7 @ 12:37 PM ET
I thought about this, and it seems he would really need to think he is a superstar for that to happen. If he takes a 1 year deal, (and its not going to be a Taylor Hall style 1 year deal), can you imagine the pressure on the kid? If he flops similar to this year, he is looking at a career as a backup for the next few years.

I think he might consider a 2-3 year deal.

- PT21

I think you get him to sign a two year deal, then you have the flexibility to sign a longer deal if he bounces back next year. I think you do the same thing for NoPa.
Pelle31Forever
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.20.2014

May 7 @ 12:45 PM ET
Caulfield has 3 goals already. Ball is in your court York.
- PLindbergh31


York couldn't help where and who picked him. Plus if York were an offensive player I'd sort of go along with this.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. In a shambles.
Joined: 02.04.2009

May 7 @ 12:52 PM ET
Dont agree for a number of reasons
1) No goalie should be the best payed player on the team simple that he cant do 82 games
2) Also it makes no sense to do contracts longer then 5 years for any player apart from a franchise player

- goenzoy


1) Goalies may not dress for all the games, but they actually play the most minutes of anybody at the end of the season. Skaters you get what... 20-25mins out of them tops per night? Goalies are out there the full 60+ when they play.

2) You could say that, and I actually agree that super long deals in a contact sport are kinda dumb... but with the hard cap, teams gotta spread the contract over more years to lower AAVs.

And another counterpoint... you don't sign a goalie to a long-term deal unless he's a franchise player and way under 30. Hart could be both of those things. We'll see.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 7 @ 1:01 PM ET
If he takes a 2+ year deal then, should we interpret that as a bad sign given the importance of confidence for a goalie?
- PT21


No, Hart doesn’t have a lot of leverage. Besides he would be showing loyalty with a term-friendly, bridge deal and would have ample time to prove himself. If I were the Flyers, I would push hard for a minimum of 3 year term. Start by saying 4...
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 7 @ 1:05 PM ET
Zero chance that he will get a 3 year deal particularly when medics are saying we don't know how knee will develop
But do agree that one year deal would be madness

- goenzoy

This is the first time I'm hearing anything about medical reservations. Could you please elaborate and spoil my mood. Thank you.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. In a shambles.
Joined: 02.04.2009

May 7 @ 1:05 PM ET
I thought about this, and it seems he would really need to think he is a superstar for that to happen. If he takes a 1 year deal, (and its not going to be a Taylor Hall style 1 year deal), can you imagine the pressure on the kid? If he flops similar to this year, he is looking at a career as a backup for the next few years.

I think he might consider a 2-3 year deal.

- PT21


1-year would be the big swinging Richard move. Bet on yourself and then go get that Vasilevskiy extension when you put up a .925+.

If he flops again, no matter what his contract is, he's in trouble. Doubt many teams would be willing to put much stock into a goalie after consecutive .8xx seasons, no matter the pedigree or potential. See: Andrew Raycroft.

You can bet his agent is begging him to take the bridge deal -- take security now because everybody's still assuming that he'll bounce back. It would be the prudent move.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

May 7 @ 1:11 PM ET
1-year would be the big swinging Richard move. Bet on yourself and then go get that Vasilevskiy extension when you put up a .925+.

If he flops again, no matter what his contract is, he's in trouble. Doubt many teams would be willing to put much stock into a goalie after consecutive .8xx seasons, no matter the pedigree or potential. See: Andrew Raycroft.

You can bet his agent is begging him to take the bridge deal -- take security now because everybody's still assuming that he'll bounce back. It would be the prudent move.

- Tomahawk

Not even sure why this is a conversation, no chance he goes on a 1 year deal.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 7 @ 1:16 PM ET
After the York callup, the Flyers only have one more available. They may.
- MBFlyerfan


So was the York call up on emergency basis, so they would still have 2?

I would think they could get a look at Sandin and maybe Hogberg.
Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

May 7 @ 1:19 PM ET
Is it a competition between Caufield, a forward and York, a defenseman?
- bradster



Yes, because Pavel is in Angelo Cataldi mode today, even though he actually knows hockey and that it's two different positons and two different sets of expectations.
Doc_Sarcasm
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Should of studied Geometry
Joined: 04.28.2013

May 7 @ 1:24 PM ET
Yes, because Pavel is in Angelo Cataldi mode today, even though he actually knows hockey and that it's two different positons and two different sets of expectations.
- bmeltzer



It would be entertaining if York went full Andy Delmore tonight and put up a hat trick.

Not likely, mind you. But, entertaining nonetheless.
Djapana
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Sunset Dreaming, FL
Joined: 09.16.2017

May 7 @ 1:30 PM ET
Not even sure why this is a conversation, no chance he goes on a 1 year deal.
- ClaudeFather


You are correct on this. Flyers hold all of the cards. Hart doesn’t even have arbitration rights and is coming off a historical bad season. Flyers will get a 3 year deal at a team friendly rate. When the contract expires Hart is still an RFA, thus Flyers still holding the cards at that point.

Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. In a shambles.
Joined: 02.04.2009

May 7 @ 1:32 PM ET
You are correct on this. Flyers hold all of the cards. Hart doesn’t even have arbitration rights and is coming off a historical bad season. Flyers will get a 3 year deal at a team friendly rate. When the contract expires Hart is still an RFA, thus Flyers still holding the cards at that point.
- Djapana


Didn't the Flyers just QO NP before the season? Why wouldn't they do the same w/ Hart? They're in a cap crunch.
Djapana
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Sunset Dreaming, FL
Joined: 09.16.2017

May 7 @ 2:00 PM ET
Didn't the Flyers just QO NP before the season? Why wouldn't they do the same w/ Hart? They're in a cap crunch.
- Tomahawk


It’s possible but I don’t see the two situations as being the same. With Patrick there was a legitimate question whether he could physically play. With Hart, he’s going to be able to play. If he underperforms on a cheap 3 year deal it’s not catastrophic. If he over performs it’s good for the Flyers. Then if he is due a big payday in 3 years, the Flyers still control him with an RFA contract. It will be interesting, we’ll see.
flyerforlife
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 04.07.2019

May 7 @ 2:03 PM ET
Bill: Would like your thoughts, when we look at the disappointing season though it was an odd year for a lot of reasons. For me it is accountability for decisions that yielded such poor results and if there isnt implications for these then it is accepted ( this poor performance).
It starts with CF where this summer he didnt get a top tier Dman, let the three of Pitlick, Grant and Thompson go where they were cheap solid vets that would have keep some sandpaper and done well on PK. Having NP and Lindblom play in the NHL vs the Phantoms was a mistake as they had some much time off, let them get their conditioning back with their mojo in the A first. Then the coaches, Yeo and Therrin needs to be held to account for the regression of the D and the poor PK, poor PP the lack of adjustments and continuing with strategies that were not working. Yeo should not get a pass just because he is long term friends with CF if that is the case CF needs to go. Look at the Rangers who I dislike and look how well it is coming together for them Should the flyers look at Gorton as a replacement?
As for the Players i dont think it needs to be blown up but there needs to be accountability, sure Covid was a contributor but that was for a lot teams and some it will come out they are injured. But Vorecek needs to go even with keeping some salary same with Ghost as they dont fit. JVR probably should go sell high. Go and get a top tier Dmen this summer. Allison and Lynczski both showed they are ready ( both are older rookies coming from college).
I worry that if their isnt accountability and implications of everyone the flyers will flounder in the air of ' well if that is what they decide why should i push myself' the Flyers are at a tipping point from their fans do they really want to have the fans not care either? It is supposed to be entertainment and the Flyers need a much better product with better results.....

THE EVIL WITHIN
Season Ticket Holder
Location: NJ
Joined: 11.20.2017

May 7 @ 2:05 PM ET
Morin vs Wilson 🥊
Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

May 7 @ 2:10 PM ET
Bill: Would like your thoughts, when we look at the disappointing season though it was an odd year for a lot of reasons. For me it is accountability for decisions that yielded such poor results and if there isnt implications for these then it is accepted ( this poor performance).
It starts with CF where this summer he didnt get a top tier Dman, let the three of Pitlick, Grant and Thompson go where they were cheap solid vets that would have keep some sandpaper and done well on PK. Having NP and Lindblom play in the NHL vs the Phantoms was a mistake as they had some much time off, let them get their conditioning back with their mojo in the A first. Then the coaches, Yeo and Therrin needs to be held to account for the regression of the D and the poor PK, poor PP the lack of adjustments and continuing with strategies that were not working. Yeo should not get a pass just because he is long term friends with CF if that is the case CF needs to go. Look at the Rangers who I dislike and look how well it is coming together for them Should the flyers look at Gorton as a replacement?
As for the Players i dont think it needs to be blown up but there needs to be accountability, sure Covid was a contributor but that was for a lot teams and some it will come out they are injured. But Vorecek needs to go even with keeping some salary same with Ghost as they dont fit. JVR probably should go sell high. Go and get a top tier Dmen this summer. Allison and Lynczski both showed they are ready ( both are older rookies coming from college).
I worry that if their isnt accountability and implications of everyone the flyers will flounder in the air of ' well if that is what they decide why should i push myself' the Flyers are at a tipping point from their fans do they really want to have the fans not care either? It is supposed to be entertainment and the Flyers need a much better product with better results.....

- flyerforlife



I agree with much of this. I will disagree in this regard as relates to Yeo.

If you are going to primarily blame him and make him the scapegoat for the Flyers atrocious PK this season, they have to keep it proportional and give him the primary credit for the large-scale improvement the PK had last season, when it was top 10 for much of the season and finished 11th after being near the bottom for quite a few years.

Can't have it both ways.
mickel25
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Morgantown, PA
Joined: 01.21.2011

May 7 @ 2:11 PM ET
Didn't the Flyers just QO NP before the season? Why wouldn't they do the same w/ Hart? They're in a cap crunch.
- Tomahawk


Someone could offer sheet Hart and steal him. I wouldn't take that chance.
Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

May 7 @ 2:13 PM ET
But the goalie plays the whole game and the skater is only on the ice for a third of the game
- Dkos

Have you ever played goalie? You also don't exert nearly as much effort and stamina as skaters who play 10-15 minutes a night
hereticpride
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

May 7 @ 2:17 PM ET
Morin vs Wilson 🥊
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Are we protecting the Rangers now lol
flyerforlife
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 04.07.2019

May 7 @ 2:27 PM ET
I agree with much of this. I will disagree in this regard as relates to Yeo.

If you are going to primarily blame him and make him the scapegoat for the Flyers atrocious PK this season, they have to keep it proportional and give him the primary credit for the large-scale improvement the PK had last season, when it was top 10 for much of the season and finished 11th after being near the bottom for quite a few years.

Can't have it both ways.

- bmeltzer

Fair enough, but the regression of so many D is part of the issue. On another note i am not sure what people expect out of Giroux I think he did everything he could at his age, also Braun didnt have a bad year for what he is. I think they need to find a top tier goalie to push Hart so they dont have the weakness in goal, it is now time to see if Hart has the drive and talent to be number 1. I can forgive TK as it is quite often the case with the year after a big contract he should bounce back next year, also wouldnt give up on Myers, the guy can skate and has tools young right handed Dmen are a premium need to go through the bumps along way. But if CF can't make decisions or AV isnt willing then they need to go there is good talent available already said about Gorton, and maybe Claude Julien. I mean not drafting any Finns and Russians ( from the motherland not transplants) for 10 years is a big miss when there are so many NHLer's from there. That is on the GM!
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

May 7 @ 2:35 PM ET
1) Goalies may not dress for all the games, but they actually play the most minutes of anybody at the end of the season. Skaters you get what... 20-25mins out of them tops per night? Goalies are out there the full 60+ when they play.

2) You could say that, and I actually agree that super long deals in a contact sport are kinda dumb... but with the hard cap, teams gotta spread the contract over more years to lower AAVs.

And another counterpoint... you don't sign a goalie to a long-term deal unless he's a franchise player and way under 30. Hart could be both of those things. We'll see.

- Tomahawk


Not to mention its considered the most important position in hockey.... We've had Bargain bin goalies for how many years before Hart? How did that work out?
monty burns
Location: wake forest, NC
Joined: 10.18.2005

May 7 @ 3:05 PM ET
37 saves, 2.00 GAA, .949 Save Percentage

- 32 saves, 1.95 GAA, .941 Save Percentage

- 40 saves, 1.94 GAA, .976 Save Percentage

Sandstrom last 3 games, give the kid the last game...

- wcorvette


fully agree, i understand he is young and not fully tested and adjusting to a new way of life in a foreign country but there's nothing to lose here. do we really need to see lyon or moose again? one game is not going to break his confidence and i'd really like to see some pressure on hart from below. it would also make the game more interesting from a fans point of view, do it fletch and AV
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