Is their play 100% indicative of COVID side effects? I didn't state that and I don't believe it is! Therefore, what line of thinking leads you to believe there isn't any truth to it having any negative impact on the players that were affected by it? We know several players tested positive, games were postponed and that's about it.
- aantny88

Yea in reality what was it, 5 guys? The Covid thing should not be mentioned at all

I wasn't upset about Thompson or Grant leaving, but I liked what Pitlick brought to the lineup most nights.
- aantny88

Yes I liked Pitlick too, but you can find Pitlicks pretty easily in this league.

Yea in reality what was it, 5 guys? The Covid thing should not be mentioned at all
- ClaudeFather

Six players, of whom four reported moderate symptoms for 3-4 days (Giroux, Braun, Laughton, Konecny), one (Lindblom) had mild symptoms and fatigue for a couple days and one was asymptomatic (Voracek) but had positive tests confirmed.

Yes I liked Pitlick too, but you can find Pitlicks pretty easily in this league.
- jd250

Not a dime a dozen but they certainly exist. They have to be bigger-framed guys who are also plus skaters, play a consistent north-south game, are tenacious on the forecheck and back-check and don't take many penalties. Can also pot a few goals, although not their primary role.

So who does that point to though, Giroux or just the team in general lacked that type of individual, or even management? I think it’s clear that G and Jake are competitors but maybe the room just seriously lacks that Pronger like presence.
- ClaudeFather

You may be right but it still bothers me to just accept that the Flyers need to augment their captain with a strong personality in the locker room. Leadership clearly comes from more than the captain, but the captain sets the tone and creates the culture that self-manages itself. What culture does this Flyers team have right now? Its clear its a culture that has no accountability and one that will not take coaching. AV has more accomplishments in his career than any player in the that locker room, and if we care about our young players, we need to be sure they are stepping into the right culture so they grow in the right way.

I liken it to the Patriots over the past 20 years. Tom Brady was the defacto captain of the Patriots, he drove OTAs, he was the first one in the gym, and he was the most vocal on the side lines. Players knew that if they wanted to play for the Patriots, they needed to raise their game and be accountable, otherwise they would be gone! What happened when Brady left the Patriots, a 7-9 season! Brady goes to Tampa and turned that culture around to one that was very accountable and the team wins the Super bowl!

The point should be clear, the Flyers need a person wearing the 'C' that is not only the best player on the team and competes hard, but a person that holds others accountable and creates a culture of no excuses and hard work. G for better or for worse, is NOT that guy, its clear, we have 10 years of this. Time for a change!

Not a dime a dozen but they certainly exist. They have to be bigger-framed guys who are also plus skaters, play a consistent north-south game, are tenacious on the forecheck and back-check and don't take many penalties. Can also pot a few goals, although not their primary role.
- bmeltzer

Ok, maybe not that easy

So who does that point to though, Giroux or just the team in general lacked that type of individual, or even management? I think it’s clear that G and Jake are competitors but maybe the room just seriously lacks that Pronger like presence.
- ClaudeFather

Not sure a team always needs a "Pronger" like presence in the locker room. Not all players respond well to how he handled things. The whole captain/leadership issue being the main culprit of the team's struggles is overblown in my estimation. Players need to do their jobs and hold themselves accountable by being professionals. Wasn't G named captain even though Timonen was still on the team? I doubt anyone would argue that Timonen was an excellent leader even though he wasn't as in your face as Pronger. They could have made him captain! Either the organization simply wanted their star player as captain or G actually is a good leader! I haven't heard any former players question his leadership once they've left the team.

A few weeks ago Patrick and Lindblom were both shut down for at least a day. There was an official statement concerning one of the two, that implied that there was some test or metric that indicated that person was "running on fumes". I immediately thought about Kevin Hayes, because that seems to apply to him this season too.

Ive been firmly against blaming Giroux or calling for taking away the Captaincy or anything related to that.

That is until I started seeing former players such as Keith Jones and Bundy flat out saying that it is the leadership group that is the only common thread through all these coaches. Basically pointing directly at Voracek and Giroux. And saying pretty vehemently that this is what needs to change.

I would not be surprised to hear rumors that the team asks Giroux for a list of teams he would accept a trade to this off season.

We already know that there is no way Voracek or JVR is protected.

Its time to clean house. This veteran group is dysfunctional. The leadership group is ineffectual. Something needs to be done soon before it permanently takes down the young players on this squad.
- MBFlyerfan

Leadership is a vague term though. It doesnt just cover the Captain. Leadership comes from all the Vets. We all know Giroux is not a vocal guy. Voracek seems like be a vocal guy as does Laughton from what we've heard. Im not sure how accountability plays into things from a leadership stand point. How do the Leaders hold players accountable? That's a coaching process is it not? AV has benched players like Crazy, its hard to believe he isnt keeping players accountable. Especially the younger guys who seem to be on a short leash.

Not a dime a dozen but they certainly exist. They have to be bigger-framed guys who are also plus skaters, play a consistent north-south game, are tenacious on the forecheck and back-check and don't take many penalties. Can also pot a few goals, although not their primary role.
- bmeltzer

Who on this team, currently fills that role? Aube-Kubel could if he would stay out of the box and show a lot more consistency!

Hatrick from Carter! And Hex easily beat Fletcher in the luxury suites fight 🥊

Jayson Tatum from the Celtics is one example that I know of. Here's an article:

https://nba.nbcsports.com...en-lungs-up-before-games/
- aantny88

Ah thanks. When you said other leagues, I thought you meant other hockey leagues. Still interesting. I personally know people who still haven't recovered a year after infection but they are older and not athletes.

Interesting thing is, when the disease first appeared, asthma sufferers and people who have to use inhalers were thought to be high risk. But even though it is a pulmonary disease, asthma has now largely been ruled out as an at-risk co-morbidity. #of asthmatics in hospital with covid is not much different than # who come in anyway.

Who on this team, currently fills that role? Aube-Kubel could if he would stay out of the box and show a lot more consistency!
- aantny88

I don't about you, but I am all set with NAK, he is nothing more than a 4th liner, and a dumb one at that. This is a case where the Flyers should move on from a young player while he has some perceived upside.

Ah thanks. When you said other leagues, I thought you meant other hockey leagues. Still interesting. I personally know people who still haven't recovered a year after infection but they are older and not athletes.

Interesting thing is, when the disease first appeared, asthma sufferers and people who have to use inhalers were thought to be high risk. But even though it is a pulmonary disease, asthma has now largely been ruled out as an at-risk co-morbidity. #of asthmatics in hospital with covid is not much different than # who come in anyway.
- PT21

My brother is a respiratory therapist and he's seen people from all ages groups, that had COVID who have suffered and still suffer from significant lung damage. I'm sure athletes can withstand it a bit better than those who aren't in optimal physical condition, but that has to be rough!

From what I understand when the flyers came out of the COVID break, they changed to a more aggressive forechecking strategy sending two forwards in. They were playing primarily a 1-2-2 prior to that and had more success slowing teams through the neutral zone

Can we discuss why the coaching staff has continued to stick with a forechecking system that, while it’s what the league has gone to for the most, doesn’t really seem to fit the makeup of the forwards of this team?

What it has looked like all year when other teams easily navigate our two plodding fore checkers is something like Terrell Owens catching a crossing pattern pass and running in open field past linebackers and safeties, all....year....long.

I don't about you, but I am all set with NAK, he is nothing more than a 4th liner, and a dumb one at that. This is a case where the Flyers should move on from a young player while he has some perceived upside.
- jd250

I'm ok with moving on from him at this point, unless they find a way to get more consistency and less dumb penalties from him. Maybe someone on the Phantoms can play a Pitlick type of game?

Who on this team, currently fills that role? Aube-Kubel could if he would stay out of the box and show a lot more consistency!
- aantny88

Nobody really. Aube-Kubel doesn't do it consistently enough and also isn't part of the PK rotation. Pitlick's departure has been felt this season -- not as much as Niskanen but not inconsequentially, either -- although I can understand why the Flyers weren't going to offer what Arizona did.

I'm ok with moving on from him at this point, unless they find a way to get more consistency and less dumb penalties from him. Maybe someone on the Phantoms can play a Pitlick type of game?
- aantny88

Yes, I'm anxious to watch Allison and see more of Laczynski and see what they can do down the stretch here.

Not sure a team always needs a "Pronger" like presence in the locker room. Not all players respond well to how he handled things. The whole captain/leadership issue being the main culprit of the team's struggles is overblown in my estimation. Players need to do their jobs and hold themselves accountable by being professionals. Wasn't G named captain even though Timonen was still on the team? I doubt anyone would argue that Timonen was an excellent leader even though he wasn't as in your face as Pronger. They could have made him captain! Either the organization simply wanted their star player as captain or G actually is a good leader! I haven't heard any former players question his leadership once they've left the team.
- aantny88

Well this team for sure might need a Pronger because whatever is going on ain’t working

More Flyers ice ballet trash...oh boy. I can't wait until this season is over. Not enough of ANYTHING on this team, including toughness or skill.

Leadership is a vague term though. It doesnt just cover the Captain. Leadership comes from all the Vets. We all know Giroux is not a vocal guy. Voracek seems like be a vocal guy as does Laughton from what we've heard. Im not sure how accountability plays into things from a leadership stand point. How do the Leaders hold players accountable? That's a coaching process is it not? AV has benched players like Crazy, its hard to believe he isnt keeping players accountable. Especially the younger guys who seem to be on a short leash.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

In my job. I’ve got a lot of time on compared to other guys. So I slack and I don’t get blowback from supervisors that the young guys do for doing the same things. The young guys know this. Whose fault is it?

Well this team for sure might need a Pronger because whatever is going on ain’t working
- ClaudeFather

Maybe this is what CF meant when he stated that the mix of the team wasn't right

Nobody really. Aube-Kubel doesn't do it consistently enough and also isn't part of the PK rotation. Pitlick's departure has been felt this season -- not as much as Niskanen but not inconsequentially, either -- although I can understand why the Flyers weren't going to offer what Arizona did.
- bmeltzer

Yes, Pitlick is a tough player to play against. He is big and uses his size. Who on the Flyers really throw their weight around? I think this has been another overlooked piece missing from this team, they need a line that goes out and punishes the other team, and they need defenseman that use their size to punish opposing forwards in the corners and in front of the net. I think Morin does this, but no one else really. The Flyers need to augment this roster with physical players that can skate, they need to get that Flyers snarl back.

More Flyers ice ballet trash...oh boy. I can't wait until this season is over. Not enough of ANYTHING on this team, including toughness or skill.
- CupOnBroadSt.

You don’t like Ron Hextall’s Washington Generals tonight? Come on man.

Dale Weise was on SC and he said the team had an accountability problem while he was here. Also said Hak was way in over his head. Didn't know how to coach adults. He also sang the praises of Jake Voracek as a competitor.

Just some random semi-related insights.

Edit: apparently not happy w/ how Fletch treated him, too.
- Tomahawk

I definitely thought Hak was in over his head. When people say, "The problem wasn't the coaches..." I think that's too broad a brush. I think Hak should have been let go after the first season when we lost in the first roound, and the fact that he wasn't let go when we went backwards and missed the playoffs... at least he should have been let go mid 2nd season. It was just weird watching the team: he kept trying the same things, saying the same things, and it just got worse.

You know we keep saying the Leadership Group is G and Jake. Does it include anyone else? I'd love to know what Dale was thinking beyond them. I don't think the "Richards showing up without working out and leading us silently" is a good leadership model for G. But who else is a "leader" in the room? JvR? Hayes? Any defenseman since Pronger?