Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR and Goal-Scoring Wingers

Bill thanks for the article. JVR is frustrating at times. He is fun to watch when he gets going.

It will be really tough to move him in a trade that the Flyers win. They will either take a player in a similar situation with his current team that has a similar salary. Or they will pay additional assets for a team to take him. Honestly, I would like to see him play with NoPa or Frost (or whomever wins the 3C job) as his center and maybe Giroux on the left wing. Give him some talent to play with.

To me the coaching staff has to be better in the case of Ghost and JVR. Assuming they are still here thy need to utilize both of their strengths to get production out of them going forward.

In Ghost case I don't think they don't like for whatever reason. He is more talented than Hagg and offers more to me, yet Hagg gets a long rope. A case of the archaic approach to having a supposed "rugged" dman in the lineup. Ghost has his wort's no doubt. Probably is best to cut ties though if still around it falls on the coaches to get the best out of him.

Playing JVR with stiffs doesn't help his cause in any way.

I think my biggest gripe when it comes to evaluation of NHL players is how production is used.

25 goals in a year is pretty good when evaluating in a bubble, but more importantly is how important those goals are. Are they scored when everyone else is scoring? Are they scored with big leads? Are they scored in bunches, which means less scoring many other games?

The Flyers don't need to add more players, especially not high salary, to increase their scoring droughts. They need to get the players who are being paid to play like it more consistently and when it matters. They need to start using the players they have in their system more instead of constantly buying disappointment. If their players aren't good enough in the system to fill roles then there is no point keeping them in the system.

I think my biggest gripe when it comes to evaluation of NHL players is how production is used.

25 goals in a year is pretty good when evaluating in a bubble, but more importantly is how important those goals are. Are they scored when everyone else is scoring? Are they scored with big leads? Are they scored in bunches, which means less scoring many other games?

The Flyers don't need to add more players, especially not high salary, to increase their scoring droughts. They need to get the players who are being paid to play like it more consistently and when it matters. They need to start using the players they have in their system more instead of constantly buying disappointment. If their players aren't good enough in the system to fill roles then there is no point keeping them in the system.
- Glak18

exactly. Are they scored against good teams? against back up goalies (who the flyers seemed to get a lot this year).

I agree Bill, that priority is to strengthen the depth especially through the middle.
I am pretty sure some changes and also to our core are coming, as we need to be honest and admit that our team is not yet in contender shape.
Goaltending and Defense is in good shape, especially if we consider another year under the belt for youngsters.
The forward core is a focus area. I am really scared and upset hearing Giroux in his interview how we are in good position and we get better. Well I disagree.
certain things we observed in bubble are simply unacceptable.
Many Flyers fans, including me and Flyers brand just don'tt settle for mediocre. I accept losing to Islanders as they were simply much better, much better than results show for. The fashion how we performed in bubble, the spirit, missing hunger, trying your best every shift - in playoff, losing board battles like that would be what you are paid for, is simply not something I am happy to watch next season. This team is easy to play against, and that needs to be addressed. And except maybe Couturier, no one should be safe. Gosh I missed angry and hungry Giroux, this complacent guys are really not fitting Flyers culture anymore!

FWIW: On The Athletic this morning, Corey Pronman posted the Mock Draft in which the beat writers (from The Athletic) make the picks for the teams they cover.

Charlie O'Connor has the Flyers taking Noel Gunler, a Swedish winger out of the SHL.

I've literally never heard of him and have no opinion one way or the other whether this is a good pick, a bad pick, or even whether #23 is remotely close to where the Flyers have this kid on their board.

My bet: whatever the Flyers do, within a year, PBrendl55 will be sharpshooting the Flyers for being moronic in not taking some other kid none of us has heard of before.

So if JVR scores the GWG in a 3-2 win against the teams backup goaltender, that's not a good goal?

So if JVR scores the GWG in a 3-2 win against the teams backup goaltender, that's not a good goal?
- MJL

what was the score when he got the 3rd goal?

So if JVR scores the GWG in a 3-2 win against the teams backup goaltender, that's not a good goal?
- MJL

Until they win the cup every goal the Flyers score is bad.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR and Goal-Scoring Wingers
- bmeltzer

I hated the JVR signing when it happened. I hated it even more after last season where he got his goals and did very little else.

But JvR impressed me with his willingness to be more responsible and more detail-oriented this season, especially off-puck. If he can keep that kind of commitment going, I think he can still be a very useful -- albeit grossly overpaid -- part of the solution.

I almost feel we always struggled against the backup goalie haha

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: JVR and Goal-Scoring Wingers
- bmeltzer

I like JvR and I didn’t like his treatment in the early stages in the playoffs when we needed him as a net front presence. When he kept getting scratched when certain players like Derek Grant were offering nothing. With this said, I want a real power forward to replace him. I want that same buzz and excitement as when Wayne Simmonds was brought in. I’d like to see a transition from Carter and Richards, so Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds and Schenn.

25 goals in a year is pretty good when evaluating in a bubble, but more importantly is how important those goals are. Are they scored when everyone else is scoring? Are they scored with big leads? Are they scored in bunches, which means less scoring many other games?
- Glak18

FYI, JVR scored 10 of his goals at ES with game being within a goal, which was 2nd on the team after TK's 11. 5 of those goals broke ties. 4 others put the team up 2 goals.

I know you weren't talking about JVR specifically, but he didn't sandbag this year.

Are there any stats that show a players performance the years AFTER the long term deal is signed. It "feels" like too many players sign and then slow down... There is something there, I just don't know how to quantify, and show it.

It's like their "heart" for the game goes, as it's taken over by the math side of their brain. (slow down, get more years of playing out of your body...)

JVR
Jake
Ghost...

G and TK (though still smallish) are certainly still passionate...

Hey Bill. What do you think of the rumour about the Flames considering Gaudreau for JVR + Gostisbehere?

Hey Bill. What do you think of the rumour about the Flames considering Gaudreau for JVR + Gostisbehere?
- Kooleus

Doesn't pass the smell test of having to even think about for more than a second as to why Calgary would ever in a hundred million years do that.

Hey Bill. What do you think of the rumour about the Flames considering Gaudreau for JVR + Gostisbehere?
- Kooleus

Great! Trade 2 guys that disappear in the playoffs for 1...
Johnny Soccers' size and diving skills don't work in the playoffs.

I like JvR and I didn’t like his treatment in the early stages in the playoffs when we needed him as a net front presence. When he kept getting scratched when certain players like Derek Grant were offering nothing. With this said, I want a real power forward to replace him. I want that same buzz and excitement as when Wayne Simmonds was brought in. I’d like to see a transition from Carter and Richards, so Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds and Schenn.
- SuperSchennBros

Goes back to the archaic way of coaching to me.

What real power forwards are really out there? Of those who is available?

Hey Bill. What do you think of the rumour about the Flames considering Gaudreau for JVR + Gostisbehere?
- Kooleus

I love Ghost, but if that's a real thing (with no other major pieces involved), Calgary's GM should be fired on the spot.

JVR does more than just score

His net presence opens space for others, and he gets nothing on the scoresheet for screening the goalie

He's also skilled at turning board play into passes for shots from the point, and on a team where i expect us to have several offensive threats at the point (Provy, Sanheim, Myers and more) that should pay off a lot

The notion or thought process that JVR's 25 goals would need to be made up for by the single player inserted into the lineup to replace him is ridiculous. In fact, the idea that there has to be a specific plan in place to replace his goals prior to moving on from him is off base too IMO. If any reasonable opportunity to move on from him presents itself, they should do it. The goals will come collectively from the rest of the lineup.

I'm not saying that JVR is a completely useless player that has no place in the NHL. But I do think he stinks, and has no place on the Flyers roster. I really don't care what any fancy stats say, or how much he improved away from the puck this past season prior to the stoppage. My eyes tell me he is pretty much shot. The fact that he has to play with the team's best set-up men in order to be effective is such a detriment to what AV can do with his lines. As evidenced by the fact that he was a $7M healthy scratch on a team desperate for goal scoring, which is the main thing that he was brought here to do.

Hey Bill. What do you think of the rumour about the Flames considering Gaudreau for JVR + Gostisbehere?
- Kooleus

Where is this rumor coming from? Flyers fans?

I love Ghost, but if that's a real thing (with no other major pieces involved), Calgary's GM should be fired on the spot.
- jmatchett383

first thought is you are right but I think we are undervaluing JVR and even Ghost. Ghost has a skill set that is unique, he doesn't fit right now in the 6, if he fits Calgary then I think he will have a bounce back season. Though if he stays I would pair him with Nisk and see if Nisk could help Ghost like he did Provy. JVR is just better than most give him credit for, the 7 mil is bad but it is only 3 more years. Again is he a fit for Calgary Can I see Calgary taking on both contracts and all that risk? you are right the GM should be fired. Lucic has 3 years left at 5.25 and had a little come back last year, Flyrs could use some sandpaper. There probably is a deal there but with the flat cap I think they can find something better.

The notion or thought process that JVR's 25 goals would need to be made up for by the single player inserted into the lineup to replace him is ridiculous. In fact, the idea that there has to be a specific plan in place to replace his goals prior to moving on from him is off base too IMO. If any reasonable opportunity to move on from him presents itself, they should do it. The goals will come collectively from the rest of the lineup.

I'm not saying that JVR is a completely useless player that has no place in the NHL. But I do think he stinks, and has no place on the Flyers roster. I really don't care what any fancy stats say, or how much he improved away from the puck this past season prior to the stoppage. My eyes tell me he is pretty much shot. The fact that he has to play with the team's best set-up men in order to be effective is such a detriment to what AV can do with his lines. As evidenced by the fact that he was a $7M healthy scratch on a team desperate for goal scoring, which is the main thing that he was brought here to do.
- Big_E_88

JVR has his flaws but if your eyes tell you that he's pretty much shot. I would see an optometrist. JVR had a solid regular season. He matched Giroux in ES points. The overwhelming majority of goal scoring wingers in this league need line mates to help them create and get scoring chances.