Yeah the supporting players are the issue. They are "Good", but too much of the same. But because those 4 make 40 million, people are blinded to the issues.
- RogerRoeper

I don't think that is true at all. I think the divide in thinking for MOST that see the Leafs flaws and how to address them lies in the RETURN you can get for whatever you move.

I think ALL or MOST ALL would agree that if AM, Marner, Nylander, JT, Kapanen, Johansson are kept and Dubas just tweaks the Barries, Dermotts, spezzas, Cecis,etc they will end up no better next year than the last couple years. An ok to good regular season team and a poor playoff run.

They NEED some different and GOOD elements in the way of grinding forwards and a stud D-man or two. You cannot get that with a "tweak" to the roster.

Trading Kapanen and/or Johnsson MAY get you one of those pieces...but not enough to make a drastic difference.

But, if you moved a Marner or Nylander (Cuz, face it AM and JT go nowhere)....you CAN land a stud D-man and maybe another piece like a solid grinding forward. If, that CAN'T be had, then I agree, trade neither. But, if THAT is what it takes to fit a Pietreanglo, Jones, Josi type D-man then I think you have to entertain it. The Leafs COULD be a force with a stud d-man to help Reilly. Up front, they have plenty, losing Marner or Nylander may smart a little but if the return back addresses what they need it would be the right play.

https://www.capfriendly.c...m/trades/staff/kyle-dubas

If I look at all these deals, the only one a really like is Muzzin. Everything else has been questionable imo

https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/staff/kyle-dubas

If I look at all these deals, the only one a really like is Muzzin. Everything else has been questionable imo
- Hockey_Reverend

Agree. Muzzin is solid, and...more importantly...it fit a glaring need the Leafs had in a physical D-man.
Dubas needs to do more of that. Not just exchange bodies for Cap and analyitic satisfaction, buit to actually add some grit, size, nasty to the team. He also tried with Cliffard, but it was a small-level deal for a 4th line plugger that doesn't add much overall. He needs that type of deal for a top 6 winger and one more stud D-man.

Not sure that's fair. His first year he was good. Then didn't he get some weird sickness and the second year he took a step back? At least he had some 'bite' to his game. 4 mill is not a big deal imo. Rather him AND Brown then Ceci...
- Hockey_Reverend

who gives a poop, he asked to be traded...the best they could do to move him was ceci..that should tell you all you need to know.

also...he wanted out....why are fans still crying about him..he sucked

who gives a poop, he asked to be traded...the best they could do to move him was ceci..that should tell you all you need to know.

also...he wanted out....why are fans still crying about him..he sucked
- senstroll

I only brought it up because someone else said he was poop. Ceci is just as much poop. Connor Brown was a good depth guy. The kind of guy you need because he wont come in demanding a huge contract... So now Ceci walks and we are left with no assets...

I only brought it up because someone else said he was poop. Ceci is just as much poop. Connor Brown was a good depth guy. The kind of guy you need because he wont come in demanding a huge contract... So now Ceci walks and we are left with no assets...
- Hockey_Reverend

nobody was taking him as is...he had zero value as a trade with that contract.

again who gives a poop..they would have given him away for free but couldnt...which would have put them exactly where they are now...with no assets for him.

again..who gives a poop

nobody was taking him as is...he had zero value as a trade with that contract.

again who gives a poop..they would have given him away for free but couldnt...which would have put them exactly where they are now...with no assets for him.

again..who gives a poop
- senstroll

Some people just look for things to complain about, they don’t sit back and take a second to think about it logically.

Venting frustrations are normal, but more thinking about things logically is needed here.

nobody was taking him as is...he had zero value as a trade with that contract.

again who gives a poop..they would have given him away for free but couldnt...which would have put them exactly where they are now...with no assets for him.

again..who gives a poop
- senstroll

Brown was an asset also... The point is its poor asset management. You can do that year after year, trading assets and 1st round picks. it is already coming back to haunt us. Our depth is already questionable...

Some people just look for things to complain about, they don’t sit back and take a second to think about it logically.

Venting frustrations are normal, but more thinking about things logically is needed here.
- Santo_44

Fine...

Everything is fine. Carry on. no changes needed. Dubas is a genius because

Brown was an asset also... The point is its poor asset management. You can do that year after year, trading assets and 1st round picks. it is already coming back to haunt us. Our depth is already questionable...
- Hockey_Reverend

Your problem here is getting mad at Dubas for this, Lou signed those horrific deals and they had to be addressed.

Fine...

Everything is fine. Carry on. no changes needed. Dubas is a genius because
- Hockey_Reverend

Never said that so don't put words into my mouth, I said think about this logically.

They are a cap strapped team and trading a 4.5 million dollar bottom pairing D was a must, they had to give up an asset to do it. If Dubas could give Zaitzev away fore free he would of done it...He didn't give up brown for poops and giggles.

Lou signed that horrific deal and it sucks.

Your problem here is getting mad at Dubas for this, Lou signed those horrific deals and they had to be addressed.
- Santo_44

yes, blame Lou...

Here we go...

Its Lou's fault...

yes, blame Lou...

Here we go...

Its Lou's fault...
- Hockey_Reverend

Who's fault is it for Zaitzev getting a 35 million dollar deal? enlighten me

Brown was an asset also... The point is its poor asset management. You can do that year after year, trading assets and 1st round picks. it is already coming back to haunt us. Our depth is already questionable...
- Hockey_Reverend

They had to move contracts to fit Marner and Matthews

2mil for a 4th liner who will score 5-10 goals for you is too much..for a team that needs every penny.

Brown is a good asset on a bad team (2016 Leafs and 2020 Sens), but he wasnt getting top 6 mins on the Leafs

they had to give some value back to dump NZ...and lose some $$ ..

complain for the sake of it..but what does connor (frank)ing brown change about anything this season?

They had to move contracts to fit Marner and Matthews

2mil for a 4th liner who will score 5-10 goals for you is too much..for a team that needs every penny.

Brown is a good asset on a bad team (2016 Leafs and 2020 Sens), but he wasnt getting top 6 mins on the Leafs

they had to give some value back to dump NZ...and lose some $$ ..

complain for the sake of it..but what does connor (frank)ing brown change about anything this season?
- senstroll

Apparently Z has value as a D man.

I wonder why all 30 NHL teams turned down the chance of getting him for free? Did they not get the memo he was available?

you forgot to mention the part where the father of the kid asked the cops to scare him a bit.
(that's bad parenting as well btw in my view - in particular if it's a problematic child. seems the kids parents don't get along at all (not alligned on what to do with their kid) -- broken families are definitely not a goot environment for kids to grow up in , and any potential development issues only get worse when parents are not up for the job)
- MaximusAurelius

It's just so bizarre that you continue to distort these issues. The police had no place handcuffing and arresting an 8 year old special needs kid when the school messed up and had a teacher who was unaware of his issues.

The fact that you diminish this condition is irrelevant. This kid was charged with felony battery and faced the prospect of a criminal trial for 8 months before the charges were dropped. I get that empathy is tough but think about what that means that the kid and is mom faced criminal trial for that long.

So, whatever weird ideas you have about what are valid disorders and what aren't, just drop it.

Who's fault is it for Zaitzev getting a 35 million dollar deal? enlighten me
- Santo_44

its 4.5 a year. In the grand scheme its not horrid. You hold onto him until a better trade option is available. What difference would he make over Ceci? Just watch, we will sign another piece of garbage for 4 plus million...

Same with Marleau. Hold onto him until the contract is up and save the pick. But that requires a hard decision like trading a Nylander... but he has nice hair, so

Apparently Z has value as a D man.

I wonder why all 30 NHL teams turned down the chance of getting him for free? Did they not get the memo he was available?
- Santo_44

It was a nothing trade. Sideways. and you lose Brown. I would rather have Brown then some of these soft skilled losers.

Apparently Z has value as a D man.

I wonder why all 30 NHL teams turned down the chance of getting him for free? Did they not get the memo he was available?
- Santo_44

How do you know Other teams werent in on zaitsev?
Dubas liked (and still likes) Ceci so Maybe he turned down deals from other teams.

Muzzin and Zaitsev were playing really well 5v5 last year vs Bruins.

It was a nothing trade. Sideways. and you lose Brown. I would rather have Brown then some of these soft skilled losers.
- Hockey_Reverend

Freeing up 30 million is not a "nothing" trade.

Come on man.

its 4.5 a year. In the grand scheme its not horrid. You hold onto him until a better trade option is available. What difference would he make over Ceci? Just watch, we will sign another piece of garbage for 4 plus million...

Same with Marleau. Hold onto him until the contract is up and save the pick. But that requires a hard decision like trading a Nylander... but he has nice hair, so
- Hockey_Reverend

why are you ignoring that NZ asked for a trade?

was Dubas supposed to ignore that and make him play?

its 4.5 a year. In the grand scheme its not horrid. You hold onto him until a better trade option is available. What difference would he make over Ceci? Just watch, we will sign another piece of garbage for 4 plus million...

Same with Marleau. Hold onto him until the contract is up and save the pick. But that requires a hard decision like trading a Nylander... but he has nice hair, so
- Hockey_Reverend

Are you kidding me? 4.5 million? For a bottom pairing D? That is horrid.

They had to give up a good asset and take on a bad asset to get him off the team. The Z contract was awful and he is gone. Be happy about it not (frank)ing mad.

ffs

It's just so bizarre that you continue to distort these issues. The police had no place handcuffing and arresting an 8 year old special needs kid when the school messed up and had a teacher who was unaware of his issues.

The fact that you diminish this condition is irrelevant. This kid was charged with felony battery and faced the prospect of a criminal trial for 8 months before the charges were dropped. I get that empathy is tough but think about what that means that the kid and is mom faced criminal trial for that long.

So, whatever weird ideas you have about what are valid disorders and what aren't, just drop it.
- Canada Cup

So you still think the other kids in class have zero rights, and the kids with problems can hit them and their teachers?

Leafs didn't make the playoffs so Shanahan and Dubas should be canned

How do you know Other teams werent in on zaitsev?
Dubas liked (and still likes) Ceci so Maybe he turned down deals from other teams.

Muzzin and Zaitsev were playing really well 5v5 last year vs Bruins.
- MaximusAurelius

dude.

No. Just no.

it doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

Go back to educating yourself so you can stop being a complete moron on here.