Respectfully disagree.

Saad at no pay raise, is tough to stomach ROI on this team.

Saad is going to get a pay raise....

Panarin is an ELITE hockey player. You are correct Hawks couldn't pay him, but hes an ELITE player.....

Hammer is not Seabrook. Murphy has been better but he couldn't hold Hammer's jock.
- SteveRain

When Hammer was 23. The Saad trade was a good trade.

Disrespect...nah, I agree is wasnt that

But they had 5 hall of famers reuniting after a game...but they were asked multiple times to "move along" to a meaningless press conference - where reporters and cameras clearly cared more about this reunion than that

And those 5 didnt seem to give a care to the clown asking them to move
- PatShart

Why do you make things up?

You can still hate the Hawks front office, even if they didn't ask everyone to move along.

Toews seems to have developed a Crosby's jockstrap type superstition with his mandated Hawks bball cap or has decided this is one small way he can rebel against the machine. He's wearing the same hat after every game and it is covered in sweat stains.


- pdx2ord

I love it....I didn't notice the sweat stains but that's a riot.

When Hammer was 23. The Saad trade was a good trade.
- rpeters01

We will agree to disagree on Hammer. He is still a very good defensemen.

Don't be shocked to see Saad dealt again when his agent asks for the moon, and Hawks can't fit it in.

Here's the thing on saad…..when you are in the cup window you need guys like him and frolik, bolland, kruger etc....and you make sacrifices because you know what they offer come April-June is invaluable.

When you are out of that window.....what are they truly getting out of Saad? Is Saad better today then what we saw in game 6 vs Tampa? I am not sure he is. He seems to have evened out.

Are you willing to lose a Strome or Kubalik to keep Saad because it may come down to it.

At best they may have 14 million to fit in a #1 goalie, and those 2 guys, and Caggiula, Koekkoek……

I don't envy Bowman's position but I do trust him to make the tough calls....hes done it in the past.

I don't know what to make of it....Hawks overall have a lot of hard calls to make.

They have Crawford, Lehner, Kubalik, Strome. Caggiula.....to start with.

Give credit to bowman...found another gem in Kubalik. Guy has some serious skill and can snipe.

he has 70 million against the cap already with 13 spots, and needs 2 goalies. Delia at 1 million is pretty much a lock to make the team given their cap constraints.

Crawford or Lehner, Strome, and Kubalik and trying to get them to fit in under 11 million will be hard enough. There will HOPEFULLY be a cap increase but.....this is why I am pro trading saad.

Unless Shaw or Seabrook retires.
- SteveRain

All good points, but who Stan could benefit most from trading is Matta, Smith
Shaw and DeHaan all are replaceable

Well Wiz, we are probably from about the same era so you would appreciate a couple of more Eddie Shack stories that I know of:


2) Recall the famous fight at MSG between Gordie Howe and Lou Fontinato of the Rangers? It started after a whistle when Fontinato started giving Gordie grief on the ice for trash talking and threatening Shack who was with the Rangers and sort of out of control in that game. When the puck dropped, Shack and peaceful Red Kelly started fighting and Fontinato then decided to engage Gordie. It is still considered the fiercest fight in NHL history. There are pictures around of what Fontinato looked like as he was being taken to the hospital. What was a mess and it was good old Eddie Shack who precipitated the battle.
- RickJ

Fontinato was a hated goon firefighter who name resonated through the Stadium, "KILL Foninato, KILL Foninato!"

He was a beast ready to smash his fists in the face of anyone w/o hesitation...he certainly met his match when Gordie caught him in one corner of the horn, and waltzed him all the way to the other side as he (Gordie) tamed the beast by pounding him like he wasn't the dominant predator he showed before the super strong Gordie simply handle him lie a walk through the park...
yeah, remember it well...

lost my voice yelling kill Fontinato...

Meh. It's available all over the internet. Doesn't seem like an egregious thing. It played inside the arena just fine; and all parties seemed happy. It was a nice night.

Not sure why some (not directed at you) want to find evidence of ill will among the parties. I guess it helps to advance preconceived memes.
- mohel

It’s something else for Steve to be angry about just like during the Hawks hay day Steve’s concern wasn’t how well the Hawk’s played or the cups they won but rather that the Hawk’s play by play guys would over promote the team.

I don't know what to make of it....Hawks overall have a lot of hard calls to make.

They have Crawford, Lehner, Kubalik, Strome. Caggiula.....to start with.

Give credit to bowman...found another gem in Kubalik. Guy has some serious skill and can snipe.

he has 70 million against the cap already with 13 spots, and needs 2 goalies. Delia at 1 million is pretty much a lock to make the team given their cap constraints.

Crawford or Lehner, Strome, and Kubalik and trying to get them to fit in under 11 million will be hard enough. There will HOPEFULLY be a cap increase but.....this is why I am pro trading saad.

Unless Shaw or Seabrook retires.
- SteveRain

Saad was the second best player on the ice last night!

Saad was the second best player on the ice last night!
- Hockeygirl222

That is good and a nice accolade but when he is a third line wing asking for more coin, it is time to trade him. His trade value decreases after the trade deadline as teams scramble to assemble their best players to protect and try to mitigate their loss from the expansion draft (even though one season away).

Of course with Saad we are better but the sad ("Saad") fact is that the team is still a long shot to make playoffs. Compare rosters. Improving teams with young players are hungry and will add pieces at deadline. Only Edmonton minus McDavud is likely to slip. And if the slip differential is only the Oilers, then we miss playoffs. We do not have depth to sustain a major player's injury ....so another reason to be pessemistic.

That is good and a nice accolade but when he is a third line wing asking for more coin, it is time to trade him. His trade value decreases after the trade deadline as teams scramble to assemble their best players to protect and try to mitigate their loss from the expansion draft.

Of course with Saad we are better but the sad ("Saad") fact is that the team is still a long shot to make playoffs. Compare rosters. Improving teams with young players are hungry and will add pieces at deadline. Only Edmonton minus McDavud is likely to slip. And if the slip differential is only the Oilers, then we miss playoffs. We do not have depth to sustain a major player's injury ....so another reason to be pessemistic.
- jhawk59

Stop right there - my own post - so.if Edmonton and Winnipeg fall out then we have the last playoff spot to chase?!Winnipeg has been slipping. But they have been a resilient group after their loss player wise from last season. They are reliant upon Pionk playing big minutes. Not sure if that is good for them. I did notice that Dahlstrom is depth for them

Get your mailbag questions in!!!

I'm writing up a blog tonight.

Fontinato was a hated goon firefighter who name resonated through the Stadium, "KILL Foninato, KILL Foninato!"

He was a beast ready to smash his fists in the face of anyone w/o hesitation...he certainly met his match when Gordie caught him in one corner of the horn, and waltzed him all the way to the other side as he (Gordie) tamed the beast by pounding him like he wasn't the dominant predator he showed before the super strong Gordie simply handle him lie a walk through the park...
yeah, remember it well...

lost my voice yelling kill Fontinato...
- wiz1901

I'm now having visions of you and Wonthecup as younger men standing in the Stadium thirsting for the blood of Mr. Fontinato to be spilled on Chicago ice.

Incidentally, after hockey 'Leapin Lou' was a cattle farmer near Guelph, Ontario until he died and I think he treated those cows much more gently than he did hockey players on opposing teams.

Saad was the second best player on the ice last night!
- Hockeygirl222

And what happened? They lost. Which is what's going to happen most of the time when Saad is the first or second best player on the ice.

It’s something else for Steve to be angry about just like during the Hawks hay day Steve’s concern wasn’t how well the Hawk’s played or the cups they won but rather that the Hawk’s play by play guys would over promote the team.
- paulr

How is life back in 2015? You enjoying it?

And what happened? They lost. Which is what's going to happen most of the time when Saad is the first or second best player on the ice.
- 6628

Apparently its NOT ok to like a player but NOT like his AAV.

Saad the player is solid. He's not great at anything but solid at a lot of things.....Yet like usual so many fans want to play the sentimental card about how he has to stay here, and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Hawks PK success is more attributed to Carpenter's emergence on it then anything else.

Again....I don't envy Bowman's position....he's got some very tough calls to make on a few key RFAs and with Koekkoek's recent emergence throw his name into the pile as well.....

Bowman did excellent taking Saad in JUne of 2015 and flipping him for AA knowing the price tag didn't fit his budget. Same with Panarin after signing him to a smaller bridge deal.

What will be fascinating is the next 11 games out of the break leading up to the deadline....how the team plays will largely determine what Bowman does...sell, stand pat, buy.....think a combination of all 3 makes sense IF this team continues to show the improvement they did BEFORE the break.

And what happened? They lost. Which is what's going to happen most of the time when Saad is the first or second best player on the ice.
- 6628

He should be about the 6th best player which he would still be a bargain at with his salary.

He should be about the 6th best player which he would still be a bargain at with his salary.
- rpeters01

IMHO you only move Saad and his $6mil cap hit next year if you can get back (in the same trade or a separate trade) a younger version of Saad that has a lower cap hit and/or more cost controlled years. I do not think the Hawks currently have a prospect in their system who can do the things that Saad can do on the NHL level.

If you trade him for a 1st round pick it will probably be a mid to late first round pick that will be NHL ready in 2 to 3 years (and that is not a guarantee). If you trade him for a 1st round pick and a prospect, chances are the prospect would be a "B" level prospect and those are a dime a dozen (and the Hawks already have plenty of them).

I am ok with trading anyone if the return is right.

I don't know what to make of it....Hawks overall have a lot of hard calls to make.

They have Crawford, Lehner, Kubalik, Strome. Caggiula.....to start with.

Give credit to bowman...found another gem in Kubalik. Guy has some serious skill and can snipe.

he has 70 million against the cap already with 13 spots, and needs 2 goalies. Delia at 1 million is pretty much a lock to make the team given their cap constraints.

Crawford or Lehner, Strome, and Kubalik and trying to get them to fit in under 11 million will be hard enough. There will HOPEFULLY be a cap increase but.....this is why I am pro trading saad.

Unless Shaw or Seabrook retires.
- SteveRain

It’s really 16 players in that 70 m Shaw dehann and seabrooks salary are part of the 70 m but they are not counted in the total player number I know getting Kubalik Strome and drakes raises into what’s left after signing which ever goalie stays still won’t be easy. A smith buyout helps and I believe Maatta could be traded without much cost

Joy ... 8 more days of game-less squabbling on the message board. Riveting.

On a more positive topic - since Koekkoek has been playing noticeably better lately, I looked up his stats/history and was surprised to find that despite playing some games in 6 NHL seasons, he has played in only 130 games total. If the old adage that it takes a d-man 250 games to reach his potential - KKKK is only half way there. I guess what I'm saying/hoping is that he is getting better because he is maturing and that maybe he'll turn out to be the d-man he was projected to be when he was taken 10th in the 2012 draft. And wouldn't that be very cool.

Isnt he having his best year with assists and shot attempts?
- PatShart

I've read he is using a longer stick this year (not sure why exactly). That could be the reason for all the one timer shanks....anyone who golfs or plays hockey try adding 3-4 inches onto your driver/hockey stick and see how much harder it is timing and control wise.

He probably has shanked 10 plus one timers with a wide open net to shoot at.

Joy ... 8 more days of game-less squabbling on the message board. Riveting.

On a more positive topic - since Koekkoek has been playing noticeably better lately, I looked up his stats/history and was surprised to find that despite playing some games in 6 NHL seasons, he has played in only 130 games total. If the old adage that it takes a d-man 250 games to reach his potential - KKKK is only half way there. I guess what I'm saying/hoping is that he is getting better because he is maturing and that maybe he'll turn out to be the d-man he was projected to be when he was taken 10th in the 2012 draft. And wouldn't that be very cool.
- EbonyRaptor

I like how he has looked lately. He can skate too. It still looks like he gets moving to fast or the game is too fast for him at times. Hopefully it slows down with more games under his belt.

He actually carries the puck from the backend and does something useful with it... can't complain about that.

Joy ... 8 more days of game-less squabbling on the message board. Riveting.

On a more positive topic - since Koekkoek has been playing noticeably better lately, I looked up his stats/history and was surprised to find that despite playing some games in 6 NHL seasons, he has played in only 130 games total. If the old adage that it takes a d-man 250 games to reach his potential - KKKK is only half way there. I guess what I'm saying/hoping is that he is getting better because he is maturing and that maybe he'll turn out to be the d-man that was projected to be when he was taken 10th in the 2012 draft. And wouldn't that be very cool.
- EbonyRaptor

I have liked K4 for a while. He should be a nice cheap piece in our defense next year.
Keith, Boqvist, Murphy
Maatta (if not traded)
deHaan (if healthy),
Mitchell (if signed)
Seabs (not going anywhere, let's hope the surgeries make a difference.)
K4 (if re-signed)

If deHaan is healthy and Mitchell is signed they could move Maatta, but I would wait until the Summer when we get medical updates on Seabs and deHaan and see how Mitchell performs.

The trade topic has been discussed by plenty of people on this site so instead of picking one to respond to, I have just a summation of what I think is the better choice because it is the most sensible approach going forward.

This team has stepped up to play much better hockey and overcome - at least to some extent - some issues which dogged the team from playing well and actually winning. Overall the team may hoover around .500 record assuming the goaltending remains stellar.

Now that the team has an identity and some confidence as well as enjoying playing the game within a redefined structure -!and each team does have some sort of system no matter how strictly adhered or not - the big question is whether a buyer or seller at the deadline.

In terms of building for the future the answer is to be a seller..

Although this team is close to making the playoffs, there is no depth and the other teams that are bunched near us will probably be adding some pieces. Except for Edmonton (minus McDavid), those teams are on an upswing, are improving and hungry and have descent goaltending. I don't see any of them stumbling.

You can probably expect that Bowman does not make any trade of major proportion. Not that he won't consider such, but his mandate remains a rebuild
on the fly.without tearing the team apart. Adding a bad contract could occur but only if Bowman is making out somewhat as a thief in the transaction.

There is no pressure to make a trade now. Really there is not since Bowman knows that he is going to move both Gus and Saad after the season if not at the trade deadline. This team is not going to be impacted as in significantly better by subtracting a piece in Gus or Saad and adding some player at the same or another position.

And we are not going to play at a .750 clip or whatever to make the playoffs. We struggle to win and with our strong net presence we are most likely a .500 team. Capability that is such....but know that it is hard earned points in tense hard played games the remainder of the season. Expecting to play .750 clip is just not happening!

Trading a goaltender is tempting but really once carefully reviewed is not really a good idea. Sure if someone gives you a #2 for Crawford and he is amenable to moving on, alright do it. Bowman is nuts to trade a #1 goaltender in Lehner. Bowman just has to decide where he gets salary cap room insofar as to fit Lehner into the mix next season.

Saad, Gus and Crawford each for any combination of or seperately: a prospect, a draft choice, or taking on a bad contract is the way to go. Ideally to gain a first round pick even if we had to surrender our #2 is not totally unrealistic.

Perhaps after the season Bowman could trade a veteran like Maate but not likely Murphy if he feels like Koekkoek is the real deal and another kid (Mitchell) will step up.

Of course this affects depth but maybe Bowman wants Gilbert or Carlsson or even Beaudin to progress should they be recalled due to Injuries. Totally plausible since Bowman is transforming the roster piecemeal in small incremental steps.

The rebuild just needs to retain Lehner to be a credible rebuild on the fly. That is the biggest decision Bowman makes. Some who feel Saad is so nice to keep......yes, nice player but too much coin for a third line when he can be replaced eventually later next season by a Rockford player. Some cuts have to be made to get the additional money for Lehner.
- jhawk59

.750 isn't happening for anyone. The best team in the NHL this season (WSH) is at 72.4%.

I posted earlier, but for the 8-9 bubble teams, 60% of possible points gets them into the playoffs. 50% misses the playoffs. Anything between 50% & 60% is a crap shoot.

60% for the Hawks the rest of the way is 91 points.

The Athletic is currently projecting the Hawks with 88 points and a 35% chance of getting in.

This is their current projection:

NSH 93 points WC #1
EDM 92 points WC #2
VGK 91 points
CHI 88 points

Joy ... 8 more days of game-less squabbling on the message board. Riveting.

On a more positive topic - since Koekkoek has been playing noticeably better lately, I looked up his stats/history and was surprised to find that despite playing some games in 6 NHL seasons, he has played in only 130 games total. If the old adage that it takes a d-man 250 games to reach his potential - KKKK is only half way there. I guess what I'm saying/hoping is that he is getting better because he is maturing and that maybe he'll turn out to be the d-man he was projected to be when he was taken 10th in the 2012 draft. And wouldn't that be very cool.
- EbonyRaptor

The more the merrier. Funny you posted this about the number of games played as I was wondering about that the other day but never looked it up. Thanks!

IMHO you only move Saad and his $6mil cap hit next year if you can get back (in the same trade or a separate trade) a younger version of Saad that has a lower cap hit and/or more cost controlled years. I do not think the Hawks currently have a prospect in their system who can do the things that Saad can do on the NHL level.

If you trade him for a 1st round pick it will probably be a mid to late first round pick that will be NHL ready in 2 to 3 years (and that is not a guarantee). If you trade him for a 1st round pick and a prospect, chances are the prospect would be a "B" level prospect and those are a dime a dozen (and the Hawks already have plenty of them).

I am ok with trading anyone if the return is right.
- -Doh-

I believe this team should stand pat or if they could pick up some more depth for a late pick or B prospect add .They are a middle of the pack team who have been playing better of late .They have a A+ Goaltending A+ PK add another scorer and that not easy or cheap but could give them a A + PP and that is some good playoff ammunition . Unless they Sh-t the bed when come back and are totally out of it by the deadline then go ahead and sell