Toews earning his paycheck? Ha. Even if you give him credit for showing up the last few games, where was he for the first 40?

In 47 games this season he has SEVEN even strength goals. SEVEN. And only ONE power play goal in 151 minutes of PP time. ONE.

The guy is a contact avoiding cherry picker who only gets on the scoreboard when he has more ice to work with and less opponents skating against him.
- Return of the Roar

Sadly I agree, "too little too late." No different than Trubisky throwing 2 TD passes in the last 3 minutes down 34-0.

those are fair points...yeah the owner gave big money contracts: 8 forwards over 4 mil per with the only with a year remaining; 3 years lef of MAF at 7 mil per...and another stupid contract for mark stone: 7 years left at 9.5 mil...

i guess that's a coaches fault...
- bogiedoc

Maybe there is reason to think that both of you is correct.

I get the concepts, but they have half of an NHL roster. You can't play two lines the whole game.

We can debate the "fresh set of eyes" idea until blue in the face. The fact of the matter is that the largest contracts on this team are locked in until/unless they want to leave.
- Chunk

Your right , but IMO instead of wasting a trade that maybe helps the team short term, Chicago should realize that they need to trade off any players of value for high draft picks and young high value prospects and embrace a true rebuild.

As a example I hear Stan is seriously looking to trade saad yo Boston for John Moore?

That to me seems ridiculous , Chicago has 5 spots currently on lockdown for the foreseeable future,
Try and target a young high defensive prospect for the future or another young high prospect center.

Based on when I've seen his reactions happening: sometimes, it's when the refs really miss a call, but usually the facial expressions and stick slamming and swearing come right after some badly messed up play by his line (including his own mistakes) or after the team gives up a lead or an easy goal. When I was at a game earlier this year he was barking at DBC and Strome more than once as they were coming off the ice.

But you're right, maybe he is actually thinking about how he burnt the lasagne the night before and I'm misreading.

And, I don't believe either he or Toews predicted and "signed up for" belief that signing those contracts would mean a rapid decline of their fellow players and 5-year long depletion of talent on the team. That's just as much putting thoughts in his head as I admittedly am.
- pdx2ord

At minimum you have to admit that there was no "home town discount."

Based on when I've seen his reactions happening: sometimes, it's when the refs really miss a call, but usually the facial expressions and stick slamming and swearing come right after some badly messed up play by his line (including his own mistakes) or after the team gives up a lead or an easy goal. When I was at a game earlier this year he was barking at DBC and Strome more than once as they were coming off the ice.

But you're right, maybe he is actually thinking about how he burnt the lasagne the night before and I'm misreading.

And, I don't believe either he or Toews predicted and "signed up for" belief that signing those contracts would mean a rapid decline of their fellow players and 5-year long depletion of talent on the team. That's just as much putting thoughts in his head as I admittedly am.
- pdx2ord

Did they not know how old Hossa, Keith and Seabrook were? Did they realize there is a salary cap? Did they think young, high end players were going to come from drafting low every year? Or from UFA deals they couldn't give out because of the size of their contacts?

To be clear, I think they earned the contracts and am grateful they are and were Hawks. But they'd have to be awfully naive to think they'd still be near the top of the league by the middle of the deal.

Really? All the vets are two years older than Q's last full season. CDH and Shaw hurt. Saad and Strome have also missed time. And you think it is an improved roster over Q's last full season?

Just one more thing......you say the roster is improving, but they should fire the GM. Does this make sense to you?
- mohel

These players came into the season healthy and clearly by their record they were awful. Who's fault is that , the roster was upgraded.

At minimum you have to admit that there was no "home town discount."
- rpeters01

Yeah, unless Bryson had shown us on paper offers from other teams that were higher for the both of them, that can't be proven or said (tho it was claimed).

I just can't sign up for the idea that either of the players believed that by signing those deals they were putting nail in coffin for the team and that they would be playing on a middling to bad team for the remainder of their years here. Just doesn't seem to jibe with everything we know about them personally, including how they respond to losing.

Not really aimed just at you, but I don't get what people are thinking here. Colliton has benched Seabrook, and a number of other guys who haven't pulled their weight. You are not going to bench Toews in favor of "young player X" at the beginning of the year because he is still the best center on the team. Colliton is playing the young guys (which is apparently good and bad a the same time). He also has a team that has about 50% NHL caliber players at least competing to get into the playoffs. Does he make some decisions that infuriate/befuddle everyone? Yes. Are there likely more influencing forces making some of these decisions (i.e. playing Gus so much)? Yes.

1) We have NO idea what the FO's actual plans are for this team (development vs being a competitive team.

2) Nobody knows how a different coach will fare with this team., but odds are that the results would be about the same +/- about 3 wins.

3) I wouldn't get your hopes up about a new coach coming in here this year (and likely this offseason) unless there is a seismic shift in the quality of the roster.
- Chunk

You have laid it out pretty darn well. Colliton may have some schematics within the system employed which Toews feels us a hindrance....nonetheless if the team remains near 500 level most if the season then that is good enough to retain a salaried coach whose contract has at least another guaranteed year

Your right , but IMO instead of wasting a trade that maybe helps the team short term, Chicago should realize that they need to trade off any players of value for high draft picks and young high value prospects and embrace a true rebuild.

As a example I hear Stan is seriously looking to trade saad yo Boston for John Moore?

That to me seems ridiculous , Chicago has 5 spots currently on lockdown for the foreseeable future,
Try and target a young high defensive prospect for the future or another young high prospect center.
- Taylorst1

Where did you hear that? If anything, I can see Boston looking for a goaltender as Rask got Crawford, and haven't heard how long he will be out.

If these two are true, then it doesn't matter who the coach is, or what scheme they are running. Q ran a zone and they were brutal before he got fired. Who is blame there? Q for not simplifying his D or the players for not being good enough/smart enough/willing to execute it.
- Chunk

The D manpower has been upgraded since the Q firing. de Haan, Maatta, Boqvist, Koekkoek all have been added since Q was let go. Give Q this defense, I’d argue there would be significant improvement.

Yeah, unless Bryson had shown us on paper offers from other teams that were higher for the both of them, that can't be proven or said (tho it was claimed).

I just can't sign up for the idea that either of the players believed that by signing those deals they were putting nail in coffin for the team and that they would be playing on a middling to bad team for the remainder of their years here. Just doesn't seem to jibe with everything we know about them personally, including how they respond to losing.
- pdx2ord

Brisson used Toews/Kane like he used Crosby's contract at the time with Pitssburgh. He was able to drive up the prices for the stars. Kopitar got $10, Tavares got $11, etc. etc.

Did they not know how old Hossa, Keith and Seabrook were? Did they realize there is a salary cap? Did they think young, high end players were going to come from drafting low every year? Or from UFA deals they couldn't give out because of the size of their contacts?

To be clear, I think they earned the contracts and am grateful they are and were Hawks. But they'd have to be awfully naive to think they'd still be near the top of the league by the middle of the deal.
- mohel

I get what you are saying and, logically, that makes sense.

But, weren't they likely fed the same BS that StanBo bought about the cap always going up? They probably had a big case of denial about the decline of their team mates, just like those individuals did and still do.

Dispassionately and analytically playing out the worst case scenario game, they might have decided they were hurting future of the team. I just don't think they did - they were riding high on two cups and a WC finals appearance when they signed. Hard not to want to believe the people telling you it will go on forever.

They were the guinea pigs / cautionary tale of the salary cap era. It was only after teams and other players, like Stamkos, saw what happened to the Hawks that some opted for lower cost deals to help the team. McD, Matthews, etc. being the exceptions.

The D manpower has been upgraded since the Q firing. de Haan, Maatta, Boqvist, Koekkoek all have been added since Q was let go. Give Q this defense, I’d argue there would be significant improvement.
- scottak

Da Haan wouldn't be on LTIR because of Q's coaching? You forgot Q had a better version of Seabrook than JC did. Q had Jokiarihu that is the second coming of Bill White. Oh, and he might of had even a better defense if he wouldn't of forced Stan to trade Kempney for nothing.

Where did you hear that? If anything, I can see Boston looking for a goaltender as Rask got Crawford, and haven't heard how long he will be out.
- LAHawk

I just read that maybe a week ago or so, it was a trade rumor quoted out of Boston.

I get what you are saying and, logically, that makes sense.

But, weren't they likely fed the same BS that StanBo bought about the cap always going up? They probably had a big case of denial about the decline of their team mates, just like those individuals did and still do.

Dispassionately and logically, playing out the worst case scenario game, they might have decided they were hurting future of the team. I just don't think they did - they were riding high on two cups and a WC finals appearance when they signed. Hard not to want to believe the people telling you it will go on forever.

They were the guinea pigs / cautionary tale of the salary cap era. It was only after teams and other players, like Stamkos, saw what happened to the Hawks that some opted for lower cost deals to help the team. McD, Matthews, etc. being the exceptions.
- pdx2ord

Well, teams were having to trade good players for cap reasons for about 10 years prior to them signing their current deal. One of those teams was the Chicago Blackhawks every year after 2010. Their own teammates had to leave for cap reasons. And yet, they didn't know the ramifications of their deals?

I can see Gallant sitting out a year getting paid by Vegas, then sign up as coach of the Seattle team, hoping to repeat his earlier success with an expansion team.

These players came into the season healthy and clearly by their record they were awful. Who's fault is that , the roster was upgraded.
- Taylorst1

How so? In theory maybe. Maatta playing like crap, Gus being Gus, Joki for Nylander (not saying anything about his future, but he is not a good hockey player now), Kahun gone, Seabrook (and he was playing better this year than last), is it the GM and JC's fault that ADB lost his mojo, Smith.

I just read that maybe a week ago or so, it was a trade rumor quoted out of Boston.
- Taylorst1

Here is the article. It says the Hawks might be interested in Moore, and the Bruins are looking for a Saad/Kreider type of forward. No mention that the Hawks would trade Saad for Moore.

https://bostonhockeynow.c...awks-interested-in-moore/

I just read that maybe a week ago or so, it was a trade rumor quoted out of Boston.
- Taylorst1

https://bostonhockeynow.c...awks-interested-in-moore/

Speculation...

https://bostonhockeynow.com/2020/01/09/boston-bruins-and-blackhawks-talking-hawks-interested-in-moore/

Speculation...
- Chunk

The fact checkers are out !!!

Here is the article. It says the Hawks might be interested in Moore, and the Bruins are looking for a Saad/Kreider type of forward. No mention that the Hawks would trade Saad for Moore.

https://bostonhockeynow.c...awks-interested-in-moore/
- LAHawk

But Chicago is looking at Moore, even the consideration of moore to me seems a bit of a waste of a trade if that does happen.

Well, teams were having to trade good players for cap reasons for about 10 years prior to them signing their current deal. One of those teams was the Chicago Blackhawks every year after 2010. Their own teammates had to leave for cap reasons. And yet, they didn't know the ramifications of their deals?
- mohel

True, they'd seen 2010 and could have predicted. Maybe the fact they won another Cup and went the WC after that happened made them downplay the potential impacts.

Well, has been fun discussing with you nonetheless. Fact is the deals handed to the SC vets have hampered the team. Why they agreed and whether they knew when signing the impact they'd have will be forever debatable until one of the players speaks.

Da Haan wouldn't be on LTIR because of Q's coaching? You forgot Q had a better version of Seabrook than JC did. Q had Jokiarihu that is the second coming of Bill White. Oh, and he might of had even a better defense if he wouldn't of forced Stan to trade Kempney for nothing.
- LAHawk

Please. Davidson, Forsling & Manning took regular shifts last year. The D roster in G1 this season is vastly superior to the D roster G1 of last season

Your right , but IMO instead of wasting a trade that maybe helps the team short term, Chicago should realize that they need to trade off any players of value for high draft picks and young high value prospects and embrace a true rebuild.

As a example I hear Stan is seriously looking to trade saad yo Boston for John Moore?

That to me seems ridiculous , Chicago has 5 spots currently on lockdown for the foreseeable future,
Try and target a young high defensive prospect for the future or another young high prospect center.
- Taylorst1

Almost all contending teams that want to add at the TDL are up against the cap and can't afford to take on, for example, Saad's 6M without sending a salary back. As much as I would like to see the Hawks get a high pick and the next David Pastrnak from someone, it likely isn't happening.

https://bostonhockeynow.com/2020/01/09/boston-bruins-and-blackhawks-talking-hawks-interested-in-moore/

Speculation...
- Chunk

Anything we mention that we've read is speculation , possibilities . But Stan has made some awful decisions regarding some of his trades on the return aspect, panarin for saad or joker for Nylander