James Tanner: Coyotes 5v5 Player Usage Explains Why they Never Score

Say all you want about his 5v5 ice time but fatigue is a real thing (probably not a stat for that). The guy played 21 minutes, they had 5 powerplays, would you rather he sit on the bench for the powerplays so he can get more 5v5 ice time?

Why don’t you care about empty net goals? Is it because they don’t effect Corsi? Or are they just lucky goals?

Very true

Sometimes when there are a lot of penalties for and against...the "normal" flow of the game is changed. If top players aren't getting enough ice time when PPs and PKs don't happen, well that's a different story...NOT the case here. Cherry picking one game w/ 10 min. of PP time to make the case that top players aren't getting enough 5v5 ice time is disingenuous....but that is Tanner's thang..no?

Most teams are so equal 5v5 that if you don’t score on the PP, you lose.

Say all you want about his 5v5 ice time but fatigue is a real thing (probably not a stat for that). The guy played 21 minutes, they had 5 powerplays, would you rather he sit on the bench for the powerplays so he can get more 5v5 ice time?
- Tannerisanidiot

Yes actually. You've got a man advantage which means everyone is better. What Phil does 5v5 when he's on can't be replicated the same way

Most teams are so equal 5v5 that if you don’t score on the PP, you lose.
- Garnie

This is true, which is why you've got to play your stars 5v5. On the PP there are guys like Matthews and Ovechkin who's shots make them crazy dangerous, but if you gave some of Kessels pp time to Schmaltz or dvorak and got him a few extra shifts 5v5 youre going to help the team more.

This is true, which is why you've got to play your stars 5v5. On the PP there are guys like Matthews and Ovechkin who's shots make them crazy dangerous, but if you gave some of Kessels pp time to Schmaltz or dvorak and got him a few extra shifts 5v5 youre going to help the team more.
- James_Tanner

I don’t think so, while I realize you play 5v5 a lot more ( most games ) you absolutely need to score on the PP.

I’m sure if we do up the stats we see most teams live and die on the PP.

Yes actually. You've got a man advantage which means everyone is better. What Phil does 5v5 when he's on can't be replicated the same way
- James_Tanner

That’s ridiculous, the more talented players are on the ice for a powerplay because there is more room and time for them to use their talents. A coach would be doing his team a disservice to not try and take full advantage of being a man up, if you can’t see that you understand the game even less than I thought.

I still can’t figure out why Tanner isn’t an NHL coach yet. He knows more about winning hockey then all 31 of them put together.

James Maybe Hockey is not your thing. Why don't you try to blog for a music or political site. Or maybe baseball. That's a sport where you can mainly read stats. Hockey is a game you really need to watch to understand or at least blog about.

Phil Kessel played 21:43 overall in the game vs Pittsburgh

no forward on either team, including Malkin and Guentzel, had more icetime

this blog is a

Does anyone really know where to start with the disconnect of this blogger from actual analysis of a game? Is it even worth trying to explain things?

I still can’t figure out why Tanner isn’t an NHL coach yet. He knows more about winning hockey then all 31 of them put together.
- chazpet

Coach/GM. He can do both and be better than the majority just by using naturalstattrick.com

Tan Tan oh Jimmy Tan Tan continues to jump the shark

James Tanner. The man who can unite the masses!!

James Tanner. The man who can unite the masses!!
- Tonybere

No. Tan Tan can create a tumorous mass

You sure its not cuzza some random bs stat?

Has it ever occured to you that kessels point production, same with Haydens, is why they dont play?

Whats that you say, no because you view them favorably and have no interactions with them as a coach nor see their work ethic in practice nor their attitude, demeanor or willingness to buy into what the coach is selling? Oh well all these cases popping up of coaches being power hungry douchebags is prolly a rare occurance.

OMG IT GETS BETTER.

Upon looking at Haytons stats, i know exactly why the coach rarely uses his "best player" 4 pts in 14 games and they dont want to make him a 3rd/4th line specialist and hes clearly not ready for top line scoring minutes.

That and I root for the Yotes but dont dig into their organization so i assume they cant just send him down to the AHL. So learning and watching and.getting some action from time to time is how it goes. My bet is that hes being groomed to take over a spot in the top six next season

Stay tuned for next week's blog, when we dive into the importance of special teams and the irrelevance of 5v5. As a special holiday season treat you'll learn why renting is better than buying, too. Can't wait!

This is objectively untrue. People around the league discovered nearly a decade ago, that 5v5 play has more of an impact on the result than the PP.

In other words, if you dominate 5v5, but struggle on the PP, you will succeed more than a team that’s good on the PP but struggles at 5v5.

I still think Tanners analysis is off, AND that the coyotes are more than “lucky goaltending” but I am sick of fans stuck in the 80s thinking they are smart by trying to poke holes in analytics.

Stay tuned for next week's blog, when we dive into the importance of special teams and the irrelevance of 5v5. As a special holiday season treat you'll learn why renting is better than buying, too. Can't wait!
- leafsfann

I have to say, I take a special pride in having people like you think I'm the idiot.

This is objectively untrue. People around the league discovered nearly a decade ago, that 5v5 play has more of an impact on the result than the PP.

In other words, if you dominate 5v5, but struggle on the PP, you will succeed more than a team that’s good on the PP but struggles at 5v5.

I still think Tanners analysis is off, AND that the coyotes are more than “lucky goaltending” but I am sick of fans stuck in the 80s thinking they are smart by trying to poke holes in analytics.
- Dahlmanyotes

That wasn't what the blog was about. The blog was about a really poorly thought out criticism of Tanner's towards Tochett's deployment of Phil Kessel.

As far as analytics are concerned. Don't need to try and poke holes in them, they're inherently built in. Especially any Corsi based stats. Not to mention how poorly they're used.