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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Claim 3-2 OT win over Habs, Price Steals a Point; Morin
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bulet13
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Faceoffs, Plus/Minus, and PIMs...the Holy Trinity, TX
Joined: 03.10.2013

Nov 8 @ 11:22 AM ET
I see we're arguing about Hakstol again

TK was not as good as Farabee is in their age 19 NHL season. TK made way more mistakes than Farabee did
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 11:22 AM ET
Myers played like a first pairing defender last night.
- MJL


this is an accurate statement, well done.
juiced
Joined: 06.13.2014

Nov 8 @ 11:23 AM ET
Have there been any examples of guys who missed three full seasons of their early 20's and were able to recover from that? I can't think of anybody off the top of my head.
- Tomahawk



Robert Smith but that is a NFL example
Tomahawk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner Bandwagon
Joined: 02.04.2009

Nov 8 @ 11:29 AM ET
Myers played like a first pairing defender last night.
- MJL


I think eventually that's what he'll be. Perfect compliment to either Sanheim or Provorov.
RustyPipes
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Joined: 03.09.2018

Nov 8 @ 11:34 AM ET
Speaking of coaching - I do like the results of the good coaching that AV, Therrien, and Yeo are giving. Every time they show the Flyers bench I see one of those coaches in a players ear. So far (not last night) the PP is better, the PK is better, the the overall play is better.
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 11:35 AM ET
I think eventually that's what he'll be. Perfect compliment to either Sanheim or Provorov.
- Tomahawk


I can envision once Nisky is gone that Provy and Myers will be a top pairing in the league one day. And until then, Sanheim and Myers make a pretty solid 2nd pairing. Very happy Myers is finally up with the big team.
DrMidnite
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: False-Positive, Texas
Joined: 12.10.2010

Nov 8 @ 11:36 AM ET
I certainly hope so, for Sam's sake. He will give it his all. The sad reality is that he will have missed 90+ percent of three straight seasons -- and crucial years where he'd have naturally evolved from prospect to close to whatever the finished product would be -- plus all the mental hurdles of trusting his knee again and trying to recover his game. I really, really hope he can defy the odds and make it back again.

I no longer have a vote in the Masterton Trophy because I had to give up my PHWA membership when I started working for the Flyers. But if I did, Sam would have my vote.

- bmeltzer


Yeah, there has to be a serious WANT to be willing to go through this twice, hoping it doesn't happen again.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

Nov 8 @ 11:37 AM ET
Speaking of coaching - I do like the results of the good coaching that AV, Therrien, and Yeo are giving. Every time they show the Flyers bench I see one of those coaches in a players ear. So far (not last night) the PP is better, the PK is better, the the overall play is better.
- RustyPipes

That's because Hakstol developed them
Boyer83
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Joined: 12.16.2011

Nov 8 @ 11:39 AM ET
Good performance by the team. AWFUL news on Morin. Poor kid. Gotta feel for him.
biggbear77
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.14.2019

Nov 8 @ 11:44 AM ET
They dominated MTL in possession/shots with the Coots line having an off night. Hayes and G lines really picked up the slack both ways.

Myers has been playing shut down defense since he came into the lineup.

- Tomahawk


yup time to replace hagg for myers. i mean he did outplay him in camp. hee
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 11:54 AM ET
Im really not even talking about anything you mentioned, Im more talking about the individual statistics and underlying numbers of certain young players, such as Lindblom, Konecny, Sanheim, etc. The numbers with Hak and the numbers away from Hak do not lie, they are better without him and it was a detriment to them when he was here.
- sjk540



You aren't considering all the numbers. Your statements here are false.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 12:00 PM ET
yeah everything is either a hilarious response, or the most ridiculous post you've ever heard, or its an absurd thought. your shtick is so so tired, but i digress...

To answer your last part, no, it was Hakstol who ultimately decides the lineup, so it was him who limited their ice time.


- sjk540


It's not a shtick. You actually posted suggesting that decision made on the ice time of a player might have been made by assistant coaches independent of the head coach. My response that your post was hilarious was completely warranted.



Plain and simple, do you think Konecny and Lindblom are better than Lehtera, Weise, et al? If you do, then you cannot agree with the way hakstol employed them. Further more, both players enjoyed more success without Hak than with him. And not like a gradual thing that happened throughout the season, it was immediate when he left. That is not coincidence, that was a head coach hindering his young guys for absolutely no reason. it's evident, and the numbers prove it.

- sjk540



This is not correct. Choosing who to play in a lineup in a game does not just come down to who the coach thinks is a better player. In terms of a young player, if a coach feels that a young player needs to be benched for whatever reason as part of the development process, then his only choices to play in that player place is the players available to him. So your premise agreeing or not agreeing has no merit. It also shows a complete disconnect of how young players and a team are managed. Young players are benched in favor of lesser veteran players as a tool of player development all over the NHL by pretty much every coach.
You have not made a good case that Hakstol hindered young players development. The only case you've made is that you don't understand the handling and development of young players.
Hakstol certainly had his faults as a complete NHL head coach but he was very strong in young player development and did a really good job in that area.
RajaAmpat
Joined: 12.16.2018

Nov 8 @ 12:00 PM ET
Did anyone else enjoy seeing Claude Julien nearly bust an artery last night...?

I also thought in spite of the PP total advantages the Habs got away with a lot that would have been called otherwise ( human pity factor)
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 12:02 PM ET
haha yea he pretty much did. same with Lindblom, same with Sanheim. Hakstol basically refused to play Sanheim over guys like Amac and brandon manning. It is comical how you defend Hak and think he was a good thing for our team. Like what games were you watching? What line combos did you agree with and also didn't make you question his hockey knowledge? What lineup decisions were you looking at that you thought was advantageous for our team in the present but also looking towards the future. Hakstol was not a successful coach in the NHL with the flyers, plain and simple, in almost every regard/

how you think he was responsible for all the small successes the flyers had is absurd, asinine, ridiculous.

- sjk540



Both Provorov and Gostisbehere had their best NHL seasons as young players playing under Hakstol! The numbers don't lie. Konecny had his best statistical jump in the NHL under Hakstol. The numbers don't lie!

You don't have anything here but ramble!
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 12:04 PM ET
Have there been any examples of guys who missed three full seasons of their early 20's and were able to recover from that? I can't think of anybody off the top of my head.
- Tomahawk



I think the odds of him becoming a full time NHL player at this point are remote. However eh could get back to be an AHL player and possibly put himself in position as a veteran short term call up player. He also could get back to possibly playing a building a craeer overseas. My main point is that he should not give up playing.
SuperSchennBros
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot!
Joined: 09.01.2012

Nov 8 @ 12:17 PM ET
Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Claim 3-2 OT win over Habs, Price Steals a Point; Morin
- bmeltzer

Isn’t it strange that every time Sam was sent to the minors and probably shouldn’t have been put in that situation to begin with, he’s gotten hurt every single stint?
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Nov 8 @ 12:18 PM ET
Im really not even talking about anything you mentioned, Im more talking about the individual statistics and underlying numbers of certain young players, such as Lindblom, Konecny, Sanheim, etc. The numbers with Hak and the numbers away from Hak do not lie, they are better without him and it was a detriment to them when he was here.
- sjk540


That is not at all what the numbers suggest which is what I said. Konecny did well under Hakstol. He went off this year because it is the next step in his development just like Lindblom. Provorov and Ghost did not improve last season either.

Is AV the reason why Sanheim has struggled? That is what the numbers suggest with your logic

Young players get better over time. That is their development. There are usually bumps in the road but its all natural regardless of coach.
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Nov 8 @ 12:20 PM ET
Isn’t it strange that every time Sam was sent to the minors and probably shouldn’t have been put in that situation to begin with, he’s gotten hurt every single stint?
- SuperSchennBros


It is strange that he tore his ACL doing absolutely nothing at all

[insert Flanders nothing at all Gif here]
SuperSchennBros
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot!
Joined: 09.01.2012

Nov 8 @ 12:21 PM ET
It is strange that he tore his ACL doing absolutely nothing at all


- xShoot4WarAmpsx[insert Flanders nothing at all Gif here]

I don’t get this but sure...
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 8 @ 12:22 PM ET
That is not at all what the numbers suggest which is what I said. Konecny did well under Hakstol. He went off this year because it is the next step in his development just like Lindblom. Provorov and Ghost did not improve last season either.

Is AV the reason why Sanheim has struggled? That is what the numbers suggest with your logic

Young players get better over time. That is their development. There are usually bumps in the road but its all natural regardless of coach.

- xShoot4WarAmpsx



All absolutely 100% correct. Coaching does absolutely have an influence though. Good and bad.
PLindbergh31
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Company Stogeville, NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

Nov 8 @ 12:24 PM ET
Agreed with everything you said.

I really like the coaching staff as a whole right now.

- opeth_pa


Vigneault has got a team to a game 7 of the Cup Finals. And another team to the Finals as well.
With a bounce of a puck he could have won a championship. I don't have any issues with him as a coach. His resume is very good. I think the notion of him burying young kids and being over reliant on veterans is overblown.

My concern is much more the GM. He's already done some puzzling things imo, nothing crippling yet. The signing of Hayes now, although I do not like the term was necessary given the situation with Patrick.
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Nov 8 @ 12:30 PM ET
I don’t get this but sure...
- SuperSchennBros


From what I heard he wasnt doing anything at the time of injury. He just went down.

Flanders thing is from the simpsons. Much better to just look it up rather than me fail at explaining it. Just google "Flanders nothing at all"
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 12:33 PM ET
It's not a shtick. You actually posted suggesting that decision made on the ice time of a player might have been made by assistant coaches independent of the head coach. My response that your post was hilarious was completely warranted.
- MJL


No I never said this, please show me where I did. here's a hint, you won't find it, cause I didn't

what i said was the developments of players don't necessarily come hand in hand with the head coach. sure the coaching staff in general, but somewhere at some time a young kid developed just fine and it had nothing to do with the head coach. see what you do is twist the narrative of people then use your shtick to say it's hilarious or ridiculous or whatever your magic 8 ball comes up with.

Ill say it again, it's tired.
hereticpride
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

Nov 8 @ 12:37 PM ET
Robert Smith but that is a NFL example
- juiced

The Cure went to poop after Disintegration
sjk540
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Joined: 01.28.2016

Nov 8 @ 12:38 PM ET
That's because Hakstol developed them
- ClaudeFather


when will i learn my lesson to not debate with the wall that is MJL. its like gambling, when i think im out they pull me right back in
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