As others pointed out, the vancouver deal is different than the toronto one.

Also, I never said he wasn't a poor negotiator. I think he's ahead of the trend of where RFA's will be going. More money on second contracts. I didn't have an issue with Matthew's deal, a slight problem with Marner's (so far) but in the end he got them all signed.

Yup, made mistakes with Nylander but Dubas has shown me he isn't shy to make moves or correct what he feels are mistakes.

I don't know if there's anything to do with the roster during the season due to the cap constraints but we will see.
- Aaron_85

wasn't meant critically of you... I do think he's an "immature" negotiator.
where I differ is the idea that he's good a correcting his mistakes...

he has addressed some issues - such as the Marleau contract because he had no choice.. and he can legitimately stand behind that because he wasn't the one who signed the deal.

BUT.. .he has as of yet not shown an ability to either recognize nor correct one of his own mistakes.

I would go so far as to say that his signings have pretty much all been overpriced.

1) regarding Nylander - waited to loo long to really engage - and overpaid by a bit (and Nylander's lackluster play is making it look worse)
2) Matthews we already covered - somewhat of an overpayment - without term
3) Marner - overpayment by 20%
4) Kerfoot - he deals Kadri's contract at what 4.5 and then turns around and signs Kerfoot 3.5 with term - I would suggest that was a .5M overpayment based on Kerfoot's record
5) Kapanen - probably 300K too much - again 10%
6) Johnsson - same about 10% overpayment

the problem of course is when you add up all those "smaller overpayments" it turns into 1 or 2 players you can't afford


He used the luxury of the Kadri contract value to buy a 3.5M replacement and one year of potentially really good D man.

He hasn't addressed any of his own mistakes as of yet... he just keeps making them

Meh, Kadri hasn't been anything special for the Avs so far.

With all their injuries you would think he would try to make a bigger impact but he hasn't.

They scored 9 goals last night Kadri only 1 point
- LeafGuy89

Kerfoot has been pretty good.
I like him

wasn't meant critically of you... I do think he's an "immature" negotiator.
where I differ is the idea that he's good a correcting his mistakes...

he has addressed some issues - such as the Marleau contract because he had no choice.. and he can legitimately stand behind that because he wasn't the one who signed the deal.

BUT.. .he has as of yet not shown an ability to either recognize nor correct one of his own mistakes.

I would go so far as to say that his signings have pretty much all been overpriced.

1) regarding Nylander - waited to loo long to really engage - and overpaid by a bit (and Nylander's lackluster play is making it look worse)
2) Matthews we already covered - somewhat of an overpayment - without term
3) Marner - overpayment by 20%
4) Kerfoot - he deals Kadri's contract at what 4.5 and then turns around and signs Kerfoot 3.5 with term - I would suggest that was a .5M overpayment based on Kerfoot's record
5) Kapanen - probably 300K too much - again 10%
6) Johnsson - same about 10% overpayment

the problem of course is when you add up all those "smaller overpayments" it turns into 1 or 2 players you can't afford


He used the luxury of the Kadri contract value to buy a 3.5M replacement and one year of potentially really good D man.

He hasn't addressed any of his own mistakes as of yet... he just keeps making them
- BorjeFan4Ever

The weird thing to me about all of this is I think the team can be better with a smaller roster.

I think a player will respond better to being in the lineup every night, rather than getting in every 2nd game (12 minutes as a defenceman) and being constantly terrified that one frank up will get him back in the pressbox.

he was expected to put up 70+pts with Matthews, Marner, Pinky and Nylander
- Symba007

Then babs happened

I think signing Muzzin is more important.

The days of signing 31 year olds so massive huge dollar contracts are over...The leafs should be able to sign him to a slightly bigger Hjarmasonn contract.
- Santo_44

It is. Which is why barrie should be moved.

It's the one criticism I have of Dubas' summer:

There were at least a couple of creative things he could have done on a Ceci contract.

- offer him a contract with most of it payable on Day 1;
- try to get him to go to arbitration so the Leafs could walk away.

Instead, we have a guy making $4.5 million, counting $4.5 million against the cap, and playing like a $2 million d-man.
- Atomic Wedgie

there has to be some sort of Cap wrinkle we dont know in regards to Ceci.
the whole move doesnt make sense to me.

if they dont trade him this season, i am baffled as to what they wanted out of this

there has to be some sort of Cap wrinkle we dont know in regards to Ceci.
the whole move doesnt make sense to me.

if they dont trade him this season, i am baffled as to what they wanted out of this
- senstroll

The only plausible explanation I've heard is that they had advanced metrics that showed that Ceci could hockey.

Yeah, I know.

I'm a little bitter still about that bone-headed play by Ceci last night.. So, any deal including Ceci, I'm all for it..
- PatC80

It was a bang bang play, could have happened to any of our D. Unfortunately it was CC and the hate magnifies.

they are def trying to play a different style. dont see the stretch pass like last season.

Lower event..the last 2 games were of the Boring Variety for most of it.
Is that Better? We will see
- senstroll

I think he prefers the low-scoring, boring style.. If not for one bad play by Cody franking Ceci.. (I'm sorry... I'm still bitter), Andersen might have had a shutout.

The only plausible explanation I've heard is that they had advanced metrics that showed that Ceci could hockey.

Yeah, I know.
- Atomic Wedgie

so far they show me he isnt as bad as I thought he was..but thats not saying a lot.

But, at 4.5mil it just too much money for a 4/5/6 dman.
i guess at 2nd pairing 4th D, thats not too much money. but thats best case scenario.

It was a bang bang play, could have happened to any of our D. Unfortunately it was CC and the hate magnifies.
- Garnie

It was a quick play, but he lacked any 'hockey smarts' on that play.. Should have been more aware of where he was on the ice and to slap the frank out of the puck...Go high and hard, not softly, and on the ice.

wasn't meant critically of you... I do think he's an "immature" negotiator.
where I differ is the idea that he's good a correcting his mistakes...

he has addressed some issues - such as the Marleau contract because he had no choice.. and he can legitimately stand behind that because he wasn't the one who signed the deal.

BUT.. .he has as of yet not shown an ability to either recognize nor correct one of his own mistakes.

I would go so far as to say that his signings have pretty much all been overpriced.

1) regarding Nylander - waited to loo long to really engage - and overpaid by a bit (and Nylander's lackluster play is making it look worse)
2) Matthews we already covered - somewhat of an overpayment - without term
3) Marner - overpayment by 20%
4) Kerfoot - he deals Kadri's contract at what 4.5 and then turns around and signs Kerfoot 3.5 with term - I would suggest that was a .5M overpayment based on Kerfoot's record
5) Kapanen - probably 300K too much - again 10%
6) Johnsson - same about 10% overpayment

the problem of course is when you add up all those "smaller overpayments" it turns into 1 or 2 players you can't afford


He used the luxury of the Kadri contract value to buy a 3.5M replacement and one year of potentially really good D man.

He hasn't addressed any of his own mistakes as of yet... he just keeps making them
- BorjeFan4Ever

Everyone overlooks his biggest correction. He absolutely was dumb with the whole Nylander negotiations and how they played out. He learned and did not make that mistake twice.

Even as going and using the media to ensure he looks good throughout the whole Marner situation. With Nylander he kept his mouth shut about any of it whereas with Marner he would talk here and there about what was going on.

I think you're nitpicking a few of the contracts. Many other teams would do the same deals for those guys.

To be as objective as possible, you're right that he fixed previous mistakes mostly but he's still new enough to need time before correcting specific mistakes.

He did go out and get 2 new legit defensemen within a 6 month period. He recognized his team and made moves to change that. The fact Barrie may not work out isn't his fault.

On Kerfoot, people complain about him at 3.5 million whereas Bozak got 5 million playing a similar style (not as good as Kerfoot) and won a cup. I think he and his deal are totally okay.

It is. Which is why barrie should be moved.
- Fakepartofme

Im giving Barrie until January.

The guy is talented and should be able to figure it out.

If not? Barrie was Dubas's second choice...Got to wonder if the Flames would work out Brodie/Barrie. You gotta think Dubas was talking contract if he was going to take Janakowski and Brodie over Barrie and Kerfoot....You'd hope

I think he prefers the low-scoring, boring style.. If not for one bad play by Cody franking Ceci.. (I'm sorry... I'm still bitter), Andersen might have had a shutout.
- PatC80

I think they want them to play like this...but generating more high danger scoring opportunities.

They have been generating shot attempts. Time to make those count.

Im giving Barrie until January.

The guy is talented and should be able to figure it out.

If not? Barrie was Dubas's second choice...Got to wonder if the Flames would work out Brodie/Barrie. You gotta think Dubas was talking contract if he was going to take Janakowski and Brodie over Barrie and Kerfoot....You'd hope
- Santo_44

That's it.. Barrie, Petan and Kap for Josh Anderson and David Savard.

edit; After January of course

It was a bang bang play, could have happened to any of our D. Unfortunately it was CC and the hate magnifies.
- Garnie

Yeah I am all for not overreacting on bad plays.

He doesn't do it every game....YET.

So its just a move on type of play.

It was a quick play, but he lacked any 'hockey smarts' on that play.. Should have been more aware of where he was on the ice and to slap the frank out of the puck...Go high and hard, not softly, and on the ice.
- PatC80

I don’t like him, but it kind of just ended up on stick real quick...anyways, we stole the 2 points...be nice to beat both Philly and Chi.

That's it.. Barrie, Petan and Kap for Josh Anderson and David Savard.
- PatC80

The Leafs like what they have.

They aren't going to create that much roster turnover in deals anymore.

Plug and play on expiring deals if they don't plan on keeping them but they aren't trading any guys with term. IMO

I don’t like him, but it kind of just ended up on stick real quick...anyways, we stole the 2 points...be nice to beat both Philly and Chi.
- Garnie

I think we can beat both Philly and Chicago..

Hutch has to get a win eventually

The Leafs like what they have.

They aren't going to create that much roster turnover in deals anymore.

Plug and play on expiring deals if they don't plan on keeping them but they aren't trading any guys with term. IMO
- Santo_44

I would like Dubas to move Petan the way St.Louis moved Fabbri.

The Leafs like what they have.

They aren't going to create that much roster turnover in deals anymore.

Plug and play on expiring deals if they don't plan on keeping them but they aren't trading any guys with term. IMO
- Santo_44

I know, but still it would be nice to have a Josh Anderson on this team..

I know, but still it would be nice to have a Josh Anderson on this team..
- PatC80

CBJ is thinking the same thing.

Patrik Laine has 3 goals and 11 assists.

WTF???!?!?!?!

He was an RFA, but Ottawa had given him a qualifying offer ($4.3 million, IIRC).

Leafs had to honour that offer (and all night long, it was honour and offer!).

Anyhoo, it is what it is.
- Atomic Wedgie

We've all beaten this around a few times.

Ceci was qualified at $4.3m. He had indicated that he was willing to go to Arbitration, and whether it's accurate or not, Dreger had claimed that based on precedent an arbiter would likely have awarded Ceci $5m.

If an arbiter had awarded Ceci $4.39m or more, the Leafs had the option to walk-away.

So the only reason Ceci is on the team is that the management team felt he was worthwhile for one year.

Based on the RHD who were available _at that time_, it's likely a fair assessment of the market. Also based on the fact that _at that time_ Jake Gardiner was projected to be getting around $6.5m.

So Ceci was an overpriced, yet short term, answer to their right-side D.

We've all beaten this around a few times.

Ceci was qualified at $4.3m. He had indicated that he was willing to go to Arbitration, and whether it's accurate or not, Dreger had claimed that based on precedent an arbiter would likely awarded Ceci $5m.

If an arbiter had awarded Ceci $4.39m or more, the Leafs had the option to walk-away.

So the only reason Ceci is on the team is that the management team felt he was worthwhile for one year.

Based on the RHD who were available _at that time_, it's likely a fair assessment of the market. Also based on the fact that _at that time_ Jake Gardiner was projected to be getting around $6.5m.

So Ceci was an overpriced, yet short term, answer to their right-side D.
- Monkeypunk

I was just thinking today that he wasn't given any bonuses to minimize money the Leafs have to spend on him on the cap so they can upgrade him at the TDL.