Same guys praising Gardiner now have been ripping him since he's been a Leaf.

Defence has improved, forward talent has decreased. For a team that scores a bunch of goals I don't think this is an issue.

How healthy the team can stay, and how well/poor Freddie Andersen plays this year should dictate how the season goes.
- Kinger34

It is quite funny to see how Kadri's and Gardiner's value among other fan bases has risen in the last couple of weeks.

That's why we shouldn't trade Nylander.

He'll be a gem once he's not a Leaf

Same old leaf fans, “fire the coach”

Then we hire the new “coach of the year” and all these guys visit the other threads about how great we are and it starts all over
- Garnie

I'm actually a big Babcock fan. I just think we're going to get to see more of Spezza than we will be happy with

Huh? The biggest increase in the cap in years came the summer after Vegas entered the NHL. There will be a big bust for Seattle.
- RogerRoeper

all that happened is escrow has gone up. revenues went up with vegas, but adding 23 players also increased the cost side.

and escrow is the number 1 issue with the nhlpa right now.

It is quite funny to see how Kadri's and Gardiner's value among other fan bases has risen in the last couple of weeks.

That's why we shouldn't trade Nylander.

He'll be a gem once he's not a Leaf
- walshyleafsfan

Agreed, but in fairness there are a lot of Leafs fans who praise every newcomer and hype them up, while also bashing the guys who leave.

I like both Gardiner and Kadri. I think JG gets far too much flak for his game 7 performances. Freddie has been no better but he doesn't get the hate.

Naz had to go after the suspension in the playoffs this year, you just can't do that to your team - especially 2 years in a row.

I fully expect him to score 30 again this year getting the 2nd line minutes he should be playing.

This speaks volumes for how much you know about hockey outside of the Blackhawks. How many teams have a #1 D better than Rielly? If he isn't a franchise #1 defenseman, then there are only 5 or 6 in the league.

Dermott is solid, and very young. A lot remains to be seen, but so far he's looking like he's on the path to be a very impactful 2nd pairing guy.
- SolidGoldBricks

I don't include Rielly in the category with: Karlson, Doughty, Hedman, Burns, Letang, Suban, etc. Maybe I should watch him play more, but he doesn't seem to be at that level.

Good for the Leafs if Dermott can work out.

Barrie>Gardiner in the Ozone

By the #'s Gardiner>Barrie in the Dzone ( heaven help me, I hope I'm wrong )

#fireBabcock
- Garnie

Exactly why I think it's a wash. Maybe Barrie works out better for the Leafs than Gardiner, but right now I see them as equals..

It is quite funny to see how Kadri's and Gardiner's value among other fan bases has risen in the last couple of weeks.

That's why we shouldn't trade Nylander.

He'll be a gem once he's not a Leaf
- walshyleafsfan

I've never spoken ill about Gardiner. He makes mistakes defensively, but scores and has insane offensive potential. The Hawks have a very similar player in Gus except Gus is getting paid 1.2M (not soon to be ~6M).

I read up on Kadri a few weeks ago and he seems like a solid #2 centermen. I definitely would have liked the Hawks to acquire him, but I didn't think we should have beaten the Avs offer. The leafs were fortunate to have him as a #3.

Right now, I wouldn't trade for Nylander. To much risk from the Hawks perspective. But I do think he will have a turn around season.

I don't include Rielly in the category with: Karlson, Doughty, Hedman, Burns, Letang, Suban, etc. Maybe I should watch him play more, but he doesn't seem to be at that level.

Good for the Leafs if Dermott can work out.
- RedRevenge

After his year last year I would put Doughty, Hedman, and Burns on that list ahead of him. Giordano as well.

I've never spoken ill about Gardiner. He makes mistakes defensively, but scores and has insane offensive potential. The Hawks have a very similar player in Gus except Gus is getting paid 1.2M (not soon to be ~6M).

I read up on Kadri a few weeks ago and he seems like a solid #2 centermen. I definitely would have liked the Hawks to acquire him, but I didn't think we should have beaten the Avs offer. The leafs were fortunate to have him as a #3.

Right now, I wouldn't trade for Nylander. To much risk from the Hawks perspective. But I do think he will have a turn around season.
- RedRevenge

This is probably the most objective post I've seen from you, I agree with everything you've said.

Never said Ek was accurate.. but things change all the time in business. One day someone’s thinking about an offer sheet, they leak it, the next they looked into and decided not. Ppl act like hockey reporting is suppose to be an exact science.. give me a break! If ppl don’t understand that then they are truly idiots! And then to read a guys blog just to continually sh*t on it? You guys are jokes! And funny how ppl don’t believe me saying that I’m a top sales person.. why because you guys are sitting around smelling your own farts? Can’t believe someone on here’s a success because you guys are such losers? Lmao jokes!
- JKSoule

I learned a long time ago that anyone who brags about their own success is most likely a loser. The fact that you brag about your own success while trying to insult others, well, you are for sure a loser who probably earns minimum wage.
Get a life, loser!

Isn't that the same as every fanbase? Buffalo and Ottawa blames the coach and fires one every 2 years.
- RogerRoeper

Perfect, spread your news in their thread.

I'm actually a big Babcock fan. I just think we're going to get to see more of Spezza than we will be happy with
- SolidGoldBricks

I doubt it, but if he's getting the chances and the other lines aren't.......it very well could be.

Well last year, the Leafs had Gardiner, Rielly, Muzzin and couldn't get past the first round. They replaced Gardiner with Barrie...... You see how there isn't much improvement?

Your top 3 are solid defensemen, but none of them scream franchise #1 defensemen (No Doughty, 2013 Keith, Letang, etc).

I don't know who Dermott is? Is he relevant? He didn't seem to make a difference last year?
- RedRevenge

OMG - are you really that clueless about anything none Chicago related?

Morgan Rielly is not a hands down # 1 dman? 25yr old voted 5th in Norris trophy voting.
Barrie isnt a little better than Gardiner, he is WAY better. He also fills a huge hole as a RHD, which Leafs were missing and playing guys on wrong side.
Dermott is going to be a top 4 D...

Leafs D this year compared to last year is much different.

I don't include Rielly in the category with: Karlson, Doughty, Hedman, Burns, Letang, Suban, etc. Maybe I should watch him play more, but he doesn't seem to be at that level.

Good for the Leafs if Dermott can work out.
- RedRevenge

First off, you only named 6 guys....how many #1 dmen are there in the NHL?
Out of those 6 guys, Doughty, Hedman and Burns are the only ones I would rank ahead of Rielly. You can argue the rest one way or another but Rielly is definitely in that mix.

Understanding this, I made a deal to lock in a high salary but dropped my commission. I gave up 30K in commission to have a guaranteed contract and so that my company could thrive.

So let me get this straight, you took a higher salary but dropped your commission but your salary was guaranteed?

So if your company didnt do well in sales, your salary was getting paid no matter what!! What a guy!!!

I don't include Rielly in the category with: Karlson, Doughty, Hedman, Burns, Letang, Suban, etc. Maybe I should watch him play more, but he doesn't seem to be at that level.

Good for the Leafs if Dermott can work out.
- RedRevenge

Guess who:

Drafted 2002. NHL points 7 years after being drafted: 128

Drafted 2012. NHL points 7 years after being drafted: 243

Eklund: Quiet Marner Deadline Set? Gardiner Close, Salary Arbitration Dates.
- Eklund

marner, kawhi, marner, kawhi, marner, kawhi, marner, kawhi, marner, kawhi, marner, kawhi, aho, marner, kawhi, marner, kawhi, kawhi, kawhi, kawhi, marner, marner, kawhi, marner, kawhi, vlad guerrero jr.

I don't include Rielly in the category with: Karlson, Doughty, Hedman, Burns, Letang, Suban, etc. Maybe I should watch him play more, but he doesn't seem to be at that level.

Good for the Leafs if Dermott can work out.
- RedRevenge

Yeah that would be becaus he's a leaf

Exactly why I think it's a wash. Maybe Barrie works out better for the Leafs than Gardiner, but right now I see them as equals..
- RedRevenge

3 months ago there's no way you say Barrie and Gardiner are equals.

Nylander's value was at it's highest 2 seasons ago. The Leafs could have traded him for a legit, young, top 4 defensemen. Instead, they tried to sign him. He played hard ball and they didn't sign him until December. He was paid 7M.

His point production diminished and so has his value. 27 points last season playing next to some of the best offensive players in a league. What a fail...

His contract then screwed up negotiations with Matthews (only on a 5 year contract seems like a mistake) and now with Marner (who knows how long he will hold out for?)
- RedRevenge

Yup, a 23yr old is a complete bust already.
How did Nylander negotiations have any barring on Matthews contract?
Talk about clueless.

Ferland with the Canucks

3 months ago there's no way you say Barrie and Gardiner are equals.
- HealthyScratch6

Except Gardiner was great all last year:

https://public.tableau.com/profile/sean.tierney#!/vizhome/ControllingthebluelinepoweredbyCoreySznajderShutdownLine/Dashboard1?publish=yes

The leafs shouldn't overreact to losing to Boston. Sometimes stuff happens. They had a decent shot at the cup last year. They lost. Trotting out the exact same team wouldn't mean they don't win it next year. There is a lot of luck in this stuff. If we played the playoffs again, St Louis probably doesn't win it all. We could have been a lucky bound or two from a Vegas vs Toronto final.

That said, I like Gardiner's offense more than Barrie's. I like Barrie defensively better though. Losing Kadri hurts a lot, Kerfoot is good but not as good IMO. Zaitsev and Ceci...idk, I really don't care about either of them. The leafs on paper are probably the same or slightly worse, but it is a long season and lots changes with the maturation or young guys. They probably have another 5 legitimate shots at the cup.
- matty12345

Stop it! You're forcing me to rethink my opinion of Sabres fan because of your combination of positivity & logic. It is both conflicting & confusing.

I don't include Rielly in the category with: Karlson, Doughty, Hedman, Burns, Letang, Suban, etc. Maybe I should watch him play more, but he doesn't seem to be at that level.

Good for the Leafs if Dermott can work out.
- RedRevenge

I'd say he's considerably better than Subban. Otherwise, your list is a pretty strong one haha. Hard to be as good as those guys.

Guess who:

Drafted 2002. NHL points 7 years after being drafted: 128

Drafted 2012. NHL points 7 years after being drafted: 243
- Tumbleweed

my first guess was bouwmeester vs reilly, but it's duncan keith isn't it?