Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Vigneault on Vet Intangibles, Williams, and More

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Vigneault on Vet Intangibles, Williams, and More
- bmeltzer

You make that Markov for Williams trade every day of the week at that time.

You make that Markov for Williams trade every day of the week at that time.
- corduroy

You are correct, but for hindsight champions it's totally wrong.
Thank you, Bill for explaining one more time the role of vets, leadership, and intangibles on the team. Unfortunately, not every fan has a clear understanding how a team works.
If anything, 2018-2019 playoffs are the testament to team culture, team work and importance of coaching in building that.

After talking about young players and vets in their prime, he said that he still sees value in a team carrying at least one older veteran whose statistics (presumably either primary stats or analytics) may not look pretty at this stage of his career but who still brings a significant intangible value in terms of locker room dynamics.
- bmeltzer

As long as the intangibles vet is somebody who can produce (e.g. Jags, JWil) I'm totally on board. Flyers were one of the youngest teams in the league, and it showed on the ice at times.

What we all probably don't want to see is to have them bring on a Matt Martin or Adam McQuaid... full of intangibles but a liability on the ice.

In regard to the trade way back in 2004 that sent Williams from the Flyers to Carolina for Danny Markov, it turned out to be a bad trade in the long term but it certainly helped the team in the short-term. The Flyers of 2003-04 were deep up front but had needs on the blueline.
- bmeltzer

That was pretty much a case study in why you don't want to ever trade long-term solutions for short-term fixes/needs.

As long as the intangibles vet is somebody who can produce (e.g. Jags, JWil) I'm totally on board. Flyers were one of the youngest teams in the league, and it showed on the ice at times.

What we all probably don't want to see is to have them bring on a Matt Martin or Adam McQuaid... full of intangibles but a liability on the ice.



That was pretty much a case study in why you don't want to ever trade long-term solutions for short-term fixes/needs.
- Tomahawk

I agree with your first statement- the vet should fit overall team plan.

In regards to your second statement: I would avoid any generalization there. Again, it depends on team's plan and window of opportunity. Had Flyers won the cup after that trade, would you have changed your opinion?

Is anyone thinking that Wayne Simmonds fits that "vet intangible" mold? I worry about his skating and overall play away from the net front. Will he (could he) be a valuable contributor on PK? 2nd PP unit as net front. Is he too much of a liability? Did he need this season to fully heal?

Interesting.

The Flyers have had a tendency to bring back former Flyers. Given his consistent production over time, I’m surprised Williams hasn’t been brought back.

Pass on Simmonds. Unless he was playing through substantial injury all season then I think he's on a steep downtrend. That said, if he is coming off substantial injury do I really want him anyway?

The Flyers have had a tendency to bring back former Flyers. Given his consistent production over time, I’m surprised Williams hasn’t been brought back.
- Sublime55

Weren't we supposedly in on him a few years back and a deal was reported to be close?

In regards to your second statement: I would avoid any generalization there. Again, it depends on team's plan and window of opportunity. Had Flyers won the cup after that trade, would you have changed your opinion?
- missingmike

Probably not, since Williams went on to win 3 himself.

The deal was made right before the lockout, when the entire paradigm shifted from buying/trading your way out of problems, to building from the draft.

I can't blame them for making it at the time, but it's a lesson of what not to do in the current climate.

Don’t worry guys a full season of Hart will get us into the play offs

Is anyone thinking that Wayne Simmonds fits that "vet intangible" mold? I worry about his skating and overall play away from the net front. Will he (could he) be a valuable contributor on PK? 2nd PP unit as net front. Is he too much of a liability? Did he need this season to fully heal?

Interesting.
- cdearth23

Simmonds isn’t bad for the 3rd or 4th line

Simmonds at this point is a poor skater, a poor defensive player, and a poor ES scorer. Three things the Flyers don't need to be adding in free agency.

Simmonds at this point is a poor skater, a poor defensive player, and a poor ES scorer. Three things the Flyers don't need to be adding in free agency.
- Feanor

But veteran presence

Simmonds was most recently on our third line and was indeed bad.

intangibles are important. No doubt about it.

Never had any issue with the markov trade. Clarke messed up by moving him and singing hatfher and rathje. Markov was a legit top 4 dman.

As long as the intangibles vet is somebody who can produce (e.g. Jags, JWil) I'm totally on board. Flyers were one of the youngest teams in the league, and it showed on the ice at times.

What we all probably don't want to see is to have them bring on a Matt Martin or Adam McQuaid... full of intangibles but a liability on the ice.



That was pretty much a case study in why you don't want to ever trade long-term solutions for short-term fixes/needs.
- Tomahawk

matt martin isnt a liability on the ice

I can't believe either one of Carolina or the Islanders will be in the conference finals.

I can't believe either one of Carolina or the Islanders will be in the conference finals.
- Pelle31Forever

To be honest it makes me feel we are not as far off as we think we are, or talked about on this site. Not overly impressed with any of the East teams this year.

Hextall shouldn't have let Filppula walk. You could see it left a hole up front , , , although it did help the Fishsticks.

Ryan Callahan

I can't believe either one of Carolina or the Islanders will be in the conference finals.
- Pelle31Forever

Superior talent to the Flyers. Both of them.

Superior talent to the Flyers. Both of them.
- PLindbergh31

superior team

Hextall shouldn't have let Filppula walk. You could see it left a hole up front , , , although it did help the Fishsticks.
- fls13

our coach was just crap at utilizing him

Ryan Callahan
- backfire

Good lord no