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Forums :: Blog World :: Michael Pachla: Impressions of, and questions concerning--RW, Jason Pominville
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seedy
Buffalo Sabres
Location: you don't need an ignore button to ignore someone., CA
Joined: 02.22.2007

Apr 22 @ 4:33 PM ET
You aren't moving him without bringing back a bad contract.
- Lunaion


And permission from him.
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Gronborg's Beard, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Apr 22 @ 4:42 PM ET
Canucks....I thought you were saying he was on the Blues, and I didn't care enough to look.

We have a bad team and cap space, what would it take you to add Louie Eriksson? 50% retain, a 2nd, and they take Sobotka? I'd never consider it.

- Lunaion


That's not apples to apples. If Sobotka made $3.8 for 2 more years, that's the comparable
Lunaion
Joined: 05.23.2016

Apr 22 @ 4:46 PM ET
That's not apples to apples. If Sobotka made $3.8 for 2 more years, that's the comparable
- jcragcrumple


Well, there's no apples, so I chose Sobotka. Does a year change your mind? It wouldn't change mine.
jochfr
Buffalo Sabres
Location: It's totally menstrual , TN
Joined: 07.11.2009

Apr 22 @ 4:53 PM ET
I just ate an apple.
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Gronborg's Beard, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Apr 22 @ 5:06 PM ET
Well, there's no apples, so I chose Sobotka. Does a year change your mind? It wouldn't change mine.
- Lunaion


If Sobotka had 2 years left at $3.8 per:

We trade $3.8m per year of Sobotka for 2 more years, and get Eriksson for $3m a year for four years plus a 2nd?

Yes, I would do it because then you can flip the 2nd round pick you acquired, and Erikkson at $3m, and wash your hands of the whole ordeal.

Or, at least you're saving a $1m per year and you can buy Erikkson out after year 2, and you've saved $1m in the intervening seasons, while acquiring a pick.

Or you simply waive Erikkson who would then only count $2m against the cap, compared to $2.8 to waive Sobotka.

I think Okposo retained at $3m, plus the Blues 2nd for Pearson is slightly more reasonable than you're giving me credit for
Lunaion
Joined: 05.23.2016

Apr 22 @ 5:17 PM ET
If Sobotka had 2 years left at $3.8 per:

We trade $3.8m per year of Sobotka for 2 more years, and get Eriksson for $3m a year for four years plus a 2nd?

Yes, I would do it because then you can flip the 2nd round pick you acquired, and Erikkson at $3m, and wash your hands of the whole ordeal.

Or, at least you're saving a $1m per year and you can buy Erikkson out after year 2, and you've saved $1m in the intervening seasons, while acquiring a pick.

Or you simply waive Erikkson who would then only count $2m against the cap, compared to $2.8 to waive Sobotka.

I think Okposo retained at $3m, plus the Blues 2nd for Pearson is slightly more reasonable than you're giving me credit for

- jcragcrumple


I think you're blinded by your desire to move Okposo. Van doesn't want Okposo + Eriksson any more than we do.
Boss34
Buffalo Sabres
Location: BUFFALO NY, NY
Joined: 12.03.2015

Apr 22 @ 5:27 PM ET
We are probably stuck with him

But something to ponder...
Okposo was Buffalo’s 4TH best forward last year behind Jack, Sam & Skinner

Only had 2 less goals (& points) than Pommer, but basically got zero icetime with Jack
He had 5 less assists than Sheary (both had 14goals), but Okposo spent more time lower in the lineup- including a decent amount of time on Line4, which was used extremely heavily defensively

- jdfitz77



Wouldnt okposo be technically the "5th best" forward

Why would you discount pommer and as you said "2 less goals and points"
Pommer is 4th in goals scored - okposo isnt
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Apr 22 @ 5:43 PM ET
7 even strength goals and 11 even strength assists. He's Girgensons with PP time. Feckin Rodrigues outscored our $6m man. I repeat, he's dreadful
- jcragcrumple


PP goals count exactly as much as even strength ones do

U can’t see objectively past his $6mil pricetag

Just like u can’t see that Larsson & Girgs played well in their roles for us this year

U get that 1 thing that u don’t like that sets u off, and nothing else matters

But here’s the bottom line...
14goals from a 3rd/4th liner is decent
Not the contract- JUST the production
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Apr 22 @ 5:46 PM ET
Wouldnt okposo be technically the "5th best" forward

Why would you discount pommer and as you said "2 less goals and points"
Pommer is 4th in goals scored - okposo isnt

- Boss34


Pommer scored most of his goals/points with Jack,
while Okposo played mostly 3rd/4th line
Pommer did very little when dropped down the lineup

However u want to rank them though...
I was just trying to show that i think Ppl’s viewpoint on Okposo is skewed by the horrible contract

Would i like him gone?
Of course
I just don’t wanna give up the late 1st round pick to do it

And 14goals from a bottom6 forward isn’t as DREADFUL as some would make it seem

We are likely stuck with him anyways
Boss34
Buffalo Sabres
Location: BUFFALO NY, NY
Joined: 12.03.2015

Apr 22 @ 5:50 PM ET
Pommer scored most of his goals/points with Jack,
while Okposo played mostly 3rd/4th line
Pommer did very little when dropped down the lineup

However u want to rank them though...
I was just trying to show that i think Ppl’s viewpoint on Okposo is skewed by the horrible contract

Would i like him gone?
Of course
I just don’t wanna give up the late 1st round pick to do it

But 14goals from a bottom6 forward isn’t as DREADFUL as some would make it seem

- jdfitz77



I agree with you, but okposo received decent pp time.

Pommer hit or exceeded my expectations for the season

Okposo fell short of my expectations for the season

Advantage pommer
homiedclown
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I think we will be good, in 2037, FL
Joined: 02.24.2008

Apr 22 @ 5:54 PM ET
I just ate an apple.
- jochfr

they don't sell apples in west virginia
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Gronborg's Beard, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Apr 22 @ 5:59 PM ET
PP goals count exactly as much as even strength ones do

U can’t see objectively past his $6mil pricetag

Just like u can’t see that Larsson & Girgs played well in their roles for us this year

U get that 1 thing that u don’t like that sets u off, and nothing else matters

But here’s the bottom line...
14goals from a 3rd/4th liner is decent
Not the contract- JUST the production

- jdfitz77


I think that's a fair thing to not see past. That $6m that we will pay him to be bottom 6 should be allocated toward a bonafide top-6 winger. Instead, the money is tied up in the bottom 6, thus making it more difficult to fill a position of need.

Secondly, I agree PP goals count the same as others, but if you're interested in a historic parallel, I urge you look at Matt Moulson's last full good season where the majority of his points were on the PP:


https://www.nhl.com/player/matt-moulson-8470852

Check out '16-'17

This is where we're heading with Okposo. It is of the utmost importance to unload that contract. If we want a modern, up-tempo game, he doesn't cut it, and the salary is the icing on the cake

I'm not going to comment on the Larsson and Girgensons comment. That's a totally different conversation
IonSabres
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I said that months ago, keep up!, FL
Joined: 03.10.2013

Apr 22 @ 6:03 PM ET
my 2 cents, but probably worth a nickel...which is like a 6th rounder...which all know is gold and practically a 1st

Okposo is here, nobody is taking that contract.
Keep the late 1st and invest in the pipeline or use it in a package to trade for a decent player now (ala Montour trade)

Try to get some production from Okposo with Erod and Smith as a 4th that can be dangerous.

Now, onto bigger issues

Here is the Sabres opportunity to acquire a 2C during the off-season.
Bolder are guys I would target either in FA or through a Trade



IonSabres
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I said that months ago, keep up!, FL
Joined: 03.10.2013

Apr 22 @ 6:05 PM ET
Pommer scored most of his goals/points with Jack,
while Okposo played mostly 3rd/4th line
Pommer did very little when dropped down the lineup

However u want to rank them though...
I was just trying to show that i think Ppl’s viewpoint on Okposo is skewed by the horrible contract

Would i like him gone?
Of course
I just don’t wanna give up the late 1st round pick to do it

And 14goals from a bottom6 forward isn’t as DREADFUL as some would make it seem

We are likely stuck with him anyways

- jdfitz77


spot on, stuck for probably 2 years until a Buyout is more favorable.
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Apr 22 @ 6:14 PM ET
I agree with you, but okposo received decent pp time.

Pommer hit or exceeded my expectations for the season

Okposo fell short of my expectations for the season

Advantage pommer

- Boss34


You’re a bit biased towards Pommer,
but that’s fine

My intent was really just to show Okposo is an “ok” bottom6 guy

I ranked him so high to emphasize that where we really need help us the TOP 6,
and we should focus there & not the bottom half of the lineup
Those guys will all get replaced (hopefully at some point) by young talent coming up
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Apr 22 @ 6:18 PM ET
I think that's a fair thing to not see past. That $6m that we will pay him to be bottom 6 should be allocated toward a bonafide top-6 winger. Instead, the money is tied up in the bottom 6, thus making it more difficult to fill a position of need.

Secondly, I agree PP goals count the same as others, but if you're interested in a historic parallel, I urge you look at Matt Moulson's last full good season where the majority of his points were on the PP:


https://www.nhl.com/player/matt-moulson-8470852

Check out '16-'17

This is where we're heading with Okposo. It is of the utmost importance to unload that contract. If we want a modern, up-tempo game, he doesn't cut it, and the salary is the icing on the cake

I'm not going to comment on the Larsson and Girgensons comment. That's a totally different conversation

- jcragcrumple


Like i said...
I’d obviously prefer not to have him

BUT since he’s actually putting up 14goals as a bottom6 player- he’s not as dreadful/useless/etc as ppl are saying

And since he does provide a bit (not a lot- i know) to the bottom6
I don’t wanna use that late 1st to get rid of him
Bc that’s what it would take

I wanna use that late 1st to continue building much needed talent

And unfortunately...
it might get to the point where we eventually have to bury him like we did Moulson
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Apr 22 @ 6:20 PM ET
spot on, stuck for probably 2 years until a Buyout is more favorable.
- IonSabres


Thanks

Maybe at some point we can get with Seattle or a team trying to get to the Cap floor to take him off our hands-
for a reasonable price though
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Apr 22 @ 6:22 PM ET
my 2 cents, but probably worth a nickel...which is like a 6th rounder...which all know is gold and practically a 1st

Okposo is here, nobody is taking that contract.
Keep the late 1st and invest in the pipeline or use it in a package to trade for a decent player now (ala Montour trade)

Try to get some production from Okposo with Erod and Smith as a 4th that can be dangerous.

Now, onto bigger issues

Here is the Sabres opportunity to acquire a 2C during the off-season.
Bolder are guys I would target either in FA or through a Trade




- IonSabres


I like the age range you’re targeting

Cost might be too high for me considering we have Mitts as our “2C in waiting”
And we could be drafting another guy this year with that high of a ceiling also

I’m thinking more long term, than short term here
Boss34
Buffalo Sabres
Location: BUFFALO NY, NY
Joined: 12.03.2015

Apr 22 @ 6:22 PM ET
You’re a bit biased towards Pommer,
but that’s fine

My intent was really just to show Okposo is an “ok” bottom6 guy

I ranked him so high to emphasize that where we really need help us the TOP 6,
and we should focus there & not the bottom half of the lineup
Those guys will all get replaced (hopefully at some point) by young talent coming up

- jdfitz77


Sure I'm bias towards pommer

But even if I wasnt, he had more points then okposo, thus he had a better season.

I like okposo too. Probably the only one.
Khymlev13
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Jimbo83 is a steaming turd tha, NY
Joined: 07.22.2006

Apr 22 @ 6:23 PM ET
my 2 cents, but probably worth a nickel...which is like a 6th rounder...which all know is gold and practically a 1st

Okposo is here, nobody is taking that contract.
Keep the late 1st and invest in the pipeline or use it in a package to trade for a decent player now (ala Montour trade)

Try to get some production from Okposo with Erod and Smith as a 4th that can be dangerous.

Now, onto bigger issues

Here is the Sabres opportunity to acquire a 2C during the off-season.
Bolder are guys I would target either in FA or through a Trade




- IonSabres


Good post. I don’t know how realistic Karlsson/RNH/Schenn are, but Nelson and Hayes can be targeted for sure. And even better is that we don’t have to give up picks or players for them. I initially preferred Nelson but got freaked because of the Curse of the Islanders.
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Gronborg's Beard, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Apr 22 @ 6:25 PM ET
Like i said...
I’d obviously prefer not to have him

BUT since he’s actually putting up 14goals as a bottom6 player- he’s not as dreadful/useless/etc as ppl are saying

And since he does provide a bit (not a lot- i know) to the bottom6
I don’t wanna use that late 1st to get rid of him
Bc that’s what it would take

I wanna use that late 1st to continue building much needed talent


And unfortunately...
it might get to the point where we eventually have to bury him like we did Moulson

- jdfitz77


That's a straw man trade, so I'm not going to argue about that. There are numerous other options out there

But if you're asking me for straw men, I'd have that late pick and Okposo over the cap space, I'll take the possibility of Duchene or Eberle over Okposo and Roslovic
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Apr 22 @ 6:28 PM ET
Sure I'm bias towards pommer

But even if I wasnt, he had more points then okposo, thus he had a better season.

I like okposo too. Probably the only one.

- Boss34


I think Okposo did better in the bottom6 than Pommer did

*for the record, i like Pommer too
I just think he can’t do much away from Jack at this point
jdfitz77
Buffalo Sabres
Location: buffalo, NY
Joined: 05.21.2007

Apr 22 @ 6:29 PM ET
That's a straw man trade, so I'm not going to argue about that. There are numerous other options out there

But if you're asking me whether I'd have that late pick and Okposo over the cap space, I'll take the possibility of Duchene or Eberle over Okposo and Roslovic

- jcragcrumple


We see that differently i guess

Overpaying Duchene will end up being a mistake too
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Gronborg's Beard, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Apr 22 @ 6:39 PM ET
We see that differently i guess

Overpaying Duchene will end up being a mistake too

- jdfitz77


You're assuming again
homiedclown
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I think we will be good, in 2037, FL
Joined: 02.24.2008

Apr 22 @ 6:39 PM ET
guys who put up similar numbers to okposo last season
simmonds
eriksson
e-rod
maroon
brad richardson
sam bennett
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