You willing to pay Myers 6+M into his 30's? I wouldn't. He is about to be 29. Has played a full season twice in his career. He barely breaks even in CF% with heavy O-zone starts and has 13 points in 46 games this season being put in a sheltered role considering he start are at 60% in the O-zone.
- Elbows15

Myers is really no better than Connor Murphy. Very limited improvement over the years, but a bad team will sign him, hopefully not Chicago.

Valid points about Vegas. They really only have 2 Dmen that any other team would want (Theodore and Schmidt) but they play team defence in packs of 5. They also have a probable HOF goaltender who plays every night. If he goes down, things might not be so pretty.
- RickJ

It's hard to say exactly on their goaltending. They had a lot of injuries in net last year.

MAF only played 46 games in the regular season going 29-13-4

Subban was 13-4-2
Legace was 6-7-1
Dansk was 3-0-0

the other goalies combined to be 22-11-3 which is pretty damn decent. Only Legace was really bad with a 0.867 SV% and 3.92 GAA. Subban hasn't been outstanding this year, but only started 7 games.

Great as a #5 Dman for now, Campbell would take a hit to make a play and understood the game of hockey, one of my favorite things about him was how he would use his speed along the blue line to keep the puck in and just throw it in deep along the boards, simple fundamental hockey, Gus has a ways to go in kiss.
- BetweenTheDots

And for entertainment purposes Bryan Campbell would occasionally step up and crush a forward with a hit. Just ask RJ Umberger.

It's hard to say exactly on their goaltending. They had a lot of injuries in net last year.

MAF only played 46 games in the regular season going 29-13-4

Subban was 13-4-2
Legace was 6-7-1
Dansk was 3-0-0

the other goalies combined to be 22-11-3 which is pretty damn decent. Only Legace was really bad with a 0.867 SV% and 3.92 GAA. Subban hasn't been outstanding this year, but only started 7 games.
- breadbag

Those goalie injury issues were early in the season last year which they survived. I doubt they would want to play many important games without Fleury in goal right now.

I also think McPhee will make some moves to acquire at least one good Dman.

Would Murphy to Toronto be a good long-term play? Maybe you get a young F on ELC, pick or prospect and salary garbage that expires? Murphy is playing well, multiple years left (affordable) and Toronto has dropped 7 of 10.

I thought Keith to TOR was a given with Babcock's love for #2 but now I think Murphy would pique a lot of interest....
- phantasmo

1st and Kapp and I would be OK with this, but I doubt Toronto would be.

I don't think Toronto is going to make any major trades this year...

Jake Gardner for the Leafs hasn't figured it out defensively either, and he is going to command over $5 mil. as a free agent because of his offensive capabilities.

Tyler Myers is a bum according to the experts here, and yet he is playing 23+minutes a night on the Stanley Cup Contending Winnipeg Jets......

Tyler Myers is a bum according to the experts here, and yet he is playing 23+minutes a night on the Stanley Cup Contending Winnipeg Jets......
- EnzoD

Buff is out injured right now.

He's about to be 27. Shouldn't he have figured out how to play some defense by now?
- Elbows15

So do you agree we should keep him and see how he can improve his defensive game, or do you want to get rid of him like some of the people on here?

I get that he is 27, but you just cant teach that offensive gift. The PP is so important that I can live with his defensive play and he is not making a ton of $$.

So do you agree we should keep him and see how he can improve his defensive game, or do you want to get rid of him like some of the people on here?

I get that he is 27, but you just cant teach that offensive gift. The PP is so important that I can live with his defensive play and he is not making a ton of $$.
- Boisy12

Which is the exact reason I think he would fetch a really good return. A cup contending team can bolster their D with a 3rd pairing defender and then someone who can step in an improve the PP. It all depends, though, on what Stan wants to do with this team. If he has plans for trading/signing top FA's this offseason, then Gus is the 3rd paid/PP QB we need.

Myers is really no better than Connor Murphy. Very limited improvement over the years, but a bad team will sign him, hopefully not Chicago.
- RickJ

Plus Murphy will cost about half the cap. I would also add still improving.

Which is the exact reason I think he would fetch a really good return. A cup contending team can bolster their D with a 3rd pairing defender and then someone who can step in an improve the PP. It all depends, though, on what Stan wants to do with this team. If he has plans for trading/signing top FA's this offseason, then Gus is the 3rd paid/PP QB we need.
- HawksHype

I would keep him, his whole salary could almost be buried next year if you send him down. I don't think he bring you an asset that is going to be better for the dollar than he makes.

I'll just go through my thoughts on the most discussed players to be traded or not traded:

Kruger - Expiring contract. The hope is someone will want an experienced fourth liner for the playoff run. I think he is the most likely one to get traded.

Anisimov - We talk about him all the time as a must trade. Two years left after this one, at a $4.55 mill cap hit. They would either have to retain salary or take on someone else's problem if they want something beyond a 2nd.

Saad - Also has 2 years after this one. $6 mill cap hit. He will also be tough to move. Top 4 D in return? One can only hope, but I think that would have happened already if it was a real possibility.

Kunitz - Cheap expiring contract. He has control over where he ends up. I'm sure he gets played more often because they want to showcase him for a trade. One can only hope that they can find a home for him.

Ward - They need a trade partner, and it has to be one that is compatible for Ward's family's needs. As I said in the previous thread, if the Bruins signed Turco when their system was depleted by injury, anything is possible here. And I also remember that the Hawks got a 5th for John Scott at the deadline once. Everything's inflated at the deadline. Everything. He is a known commodity, as others have pointed out, but a game like last night says he can still have a decent outing from time to time.

Gus - We all love what he brings to the PP and hate what he brings to the other side of the puck. What's that worth at the deadline to a team desperate for help on the PP? I still think back to what Boston paid for Kaberle in 2011, but then that was Chiarelli. Besides, as said here, can Gus learn defense at all? If he was even an average defender, look out.

Keith - Only if the price is right, and only if he okays the trade. That will make it hard to trade him.

Seabrook - The pipe dream trade. Means picking up a bad contract like Lucic in return, retaining gobs of salary, and/or adding a sweetener to any deal. I think he's til retirement do us part, because the poison pill provisions of any trade proposal are even more costly.
- 333inthe3rd

You have explained everything well and i am in complete agreement.

Another player that a decision might need to be made on - but down the road - is actually having a good season. His scoring is up and i believe he can maintain a higher point average than his career average. He plays too soft and it had cost him and the team at times this season, yet this is the scorer Johny B Good so that is what he offers nowadays.

The situatiin down the road is if he can maintain this scoring pace, if another concussion or mugging could deter his drive to be that scorer. The contract means you live with what he gives you, and he is not likely towalk away early or accept a buyout one day. He earned that contract.

But if a number of prospects pan out and the team improves, the Toewes contract could inhibit a GM from making perhaps some transactions. No one knows what wr het ftom Toewes down the line.

I grumble because liked better and the team needs more the old version of Toewes. Let the notstion on Toewes be that he is not Mr terrific any longer. A good player whom is overpaid and plays a different style. Not as valuable iIMHO but i wouldn't trade him.. Not now but who knows how he and the performs say in two years

So do you agree we should keep him and see how he can improve his defensive game, or do you want to get rid of him like some of the people on here?

I get that he is 27, but you just cant teach that offensive gift. The PP is so important that I can live with his defensive play and he is not making a ton of $$.
- Boisy12

If someone offered a 1st or 2nd, I would move him in a heartbeat. The PK is far more important. IMO. Its nice they are scoring goals on the PP but good teams have bad PP but rarely does a good team have much success with bad PK.

He's about to be 27. I think his defensive game is about what it will be.

I'm not sure how a team in last place with aging high paid players not playing to the value of their contracts should be kept?
Rockford doesn't have the depth now or next year and a few draft picks are not going to fix the depth issues and cap problems this team has.

You have to move , Saad , keith, Seabrook, anismov in order to accomplish 3 things , cap relief, picks, and nhl ready prospects to build depth here and in Rockford.
- Taylorst1

They aren't under the thumb of the cap like they used to be. They have depth coming up from Jrs and college and not all of the d-men will be ready next year. And there are some F in juniors that will be filling that depth in Rockford you are talking about (Entwhistle, Kurashev, Hagel, Hakkarainen, Nordgren).

If you are going to move people, you need to have a replacement in mind.

- Seabrook isn't going anywhere, period.
- If there's another power forward in the system they think is ready, then look to move Saad (there isn't).
- If they think Joki is ready to take the mantle on top D pair, then move Keith (he isn't).
- If there's bottom 6 depth at C, then you move AA (there probably is).
- I don't think Ward will be traded. Delia now has someone who has been through the league to help him out. Ward probably won't be resigned.

Gus is the only one that is iffy. I see why some of ya'll want him to stay. But he has is starting in the offensive zone 60% of the time, but his Corsi is 50.8% and his Fenwick is just below 50%. And he's -7.1 is expected +/-. Might be time to sell high...especially if they think Joki or Boqvist is the next guy.

Tyler Myers is a bum according to the experts here, and yet he is playing 23+minutes a night on the Stanley Cup Contending Winnipeg Jets......
- EnzoD

19:36. He still won't be worth his next salary into his 30's.

No one called him a bum but let's not the facts get in the way of your narrative.

Tyler Myers is a bum according to the experts here, and yet he is playing 23+minutes a night on the Stanley Cup Contending Winnipeg Jets......
- EnzoD

No one is really saying he's a bum, but paying him 6M plus doesn't seem like the best investment for a team already with two 30+ D-Men making 12M combined (plus another 4M for Murphy) on the cap. Even most people who watch Winnipeg would agree that they don't really care for the Myers and Kulikov pairing but for some reason it seems to work for them. Right now he's playing a ton of minutes with Buff out but that will go down once he returns. If we could get him for like 3-4 years at like 4M yeah I'd be interested, but he's likely gonna want 5-6 years and 6M plus with how weak the FA market is this year. Overpaying for Defensemen in FA kills teams and they almost immediately regret it.

If someone offered a 1st or 2nd, I would move him in a heartbeat. The PK is far more important. IMO. Its nice they are scoring goals on the PP but good teams have bad PP but rarely does a good team have much success with bad PK.

He's about to be 27. I think his defensive game is about what it will be.
- Elbows15

Not a late #2. Talent drop off although a deep draft. I had hoped something along line of Crawford and Gus for a #1. But that will not happen after Crawford is out again with a serious hockey playing career maybe on the line.

O


I know we have had this debate before about the hawks not needing to make a trade and Keith etc. I respect your opinion. However this team has to use every available tool to turn this organization as a whole around.

I'm sorry to say this but Keith and Seabrook are no longer part of the long term solution , their age and salary along with their decline in play are indicators that it is time to move on .


The teams last playoff appearance they got rolled only to follow up with missing the playoffs and the trend has not stopped their again they will miss the playoffs and are currently in dead last place.


They need to move out , Saad , Keith, anisomov, Seabrook, and a few others to rebuild a lacking depth on this team and in Rockford.

They can not accomplish that while paying salaries to players who are not contributing to the value of their respective contracts.


Draft picks are great but no guarantee and the fact that Rockford is lacking serious depth and direction is a indicator of how deep the problems stem inside the organization.

- Taylorst1

It's a great debate, and parts of what you say I agree with. Seabrook unfortunately is almost un-movable, so get used to him being around. Can you maybe move him if you retain salary, or give up a player/prospect? Maybe, but he has a full NMC and there are limited teams out there that can absorb his cap hit and term, so its unlikely.

You don't trade a Keith or Saad for "depth" or "Rockford/Organizational" guys. Keith may not be Norris caliber anymore, but he is far from a bottom pairing guy. There are D-men in the pipeline, but none of them are ready to step in and come close to what Keith gives you now and most likely for the next few years. Once again, NMC means he has a say in whether he stays or goes, and you don't give him away for nothing. Keith is fully worth the salary/cap hit he is getting.

Saad is also not something to be given away. If he is moved you need a comparable return. He is still young and still can be part of the future. His salary is totally in line with what players his age and accomplishments are making.

Plus Murphy will cost about half the cap. I would also add still improving.
- Elbows15

Exactly. Myers reputation is greater than his play. He burst on the scene and won the Calder in 09/10 and hasn't had a better season since then. He's 3 years older than Murphy and will cost a bunch more. All things considered I wouldn't trade Murphy for Myers straight up.

It's a great debate, and parts of what you say I agree with. Seabrook unfortunately is almost un-movable, so get used to him being around. Can you maybe move him if you retain salary, or give up a player/prospect? Maybe, but he has a full NMC and there are limited teams out there that can absorb his cap hit and term, so its unlikely.

You don't trade a Keith or Saad for "depth" or "Rockford/Organizational" guys. Keith may not be Norris caliber anymore, but he is far from a bottom pairing guy. There are D-men in the pipeline, but none of them are ready to step in and come close to what Keith gives you now and most likely for the next few years. Once again, NMC means he has a say in whether he stays or goes, and you don't give him away for nothing. Keith is fully worth the salary/cap hit he is getting.

Saad is also not something to be given away. If he is moved you need a comparable return. He is still young and still can be part of the future. His salary is totally in line with what players his age and accomplishments are making.
- TheTrob

Yes. Re read. This is all reality.

Disagree 100%. The NHL is so even with the Cap that 1-2 key players added, with continued growth from Cat, Strome, Joki, Murphy and the emergence of Mitchell and Boquist....they are a playoff contender. Not a powerhouse, but a wild card team. Anything can happen once you make the tournament
- EnzoD

Haha, if it is allocated correctly all for it!

You do have to ear mark some for D-Cat and Strome (barring he doesn't regress) next offseason.

I still don't trust Bowman with properly allocating said cap space.
- bhawks2241

Crawford's $6M will come off the books at the end of next season. That $6M will cover Debrincat's raise. Move Ansisimov by next year, if not sooner, and his 4.5M could be used toward Strome's new contract.

On Gus:

You just can't get rid of the guy. Play him as a 5/6 when the game is on the line, and as a 1/2 when we need a goal.
Regardless, you have to keep the guy for the PP. Gus and Kane are the QB's of the PP and having a great PP makes all the difference most times.

I get that he is a defensive liability, but he can fix that and you can't teach the skills he has on offense and no moving him to forward is not a good solution.
- Boisy12

I and others have mentioned this before. Going down the stretch, why not experiment with Gus as a forward for some games to make use of his offensive capabilities. God knows we have plenty of defensemen on the team and in the system, most if not all are better defensively than Gus.

I and others have mentioned this before. Going down the stretch, why not experiment with Gus as a forward for some games to make use of his offensive capabilities. God knows we have plenty of defensemen on the team and in the system, most if not all are better defensively than Gus.
- boilermaker100

The last defenseman that was converted and successful as a forward was John Scott (oh wait), Actually all I can think of was Doug Mohns and Red Kelley. Byfuglein did play forward with the Hawks, and Brett Burns played forward for a while with the Wild, but both are back on defense.