It's all about the sample size.

Fowler falls into that Shattenkirk area. Shatty's numbers and ability were inflated due to being surrounded by very good dmen, just like Fowler.
- Rinosaur

Nah. Shattenkirk has a positive impact when he is on the ice. Fowler does not.

Nah. Shattenkirk has a positive impact when he is on the ice. Fowler does not.
- Feds91Stammer

Shattenkirk is as bad defensively as JJ.

Shattenkirk is as bad defensively as JJ.
- Rinosaur

Shatty has 9 consecutive seasons with a positive Rel CF% so I am going to have to disagree with you there.

I would try for Petan and bump Sheahan to 3C
- Feds91Stammer

Please no.

Shattenkirk is as bad defensively as JJ.
- Rinosaur

This just isn't true.

Please no.
- Rinosaur

Sheahan was actually very good a 3C last season.

Sheahan was actually very good a 3C last season.
- j.boyd919

That was another comparison posted on Twitter last night. Sheahan 17-18 at 3C compared to Brass's time here at 3C. It wasn't pretty.

I liked Sheahans game when he comfortable here. Haven't seen him anywhere near that level this year.

Hasn't Petan been a healthy scratch all year?

That was another comparison posted on Twitter last night. Sheahan 17-18 at 3C compared to Brass's time here at 3C. It wasn't pretty.

I liked Sheahans game when he comfortable here. Haven't seen him anywhere near that level this year.
- Thorny87

I'm not the biggest fan of Sheahan, but to his defense this year he's been grossly misused.

I'm not the biggest fan of Sheahan, but to his defense this year he's been grossly misused.
- Rinosaur

You mean playing wing? He's never really played above his head if we're thinking of putting him at 3C. A short stint on Geno's wing.

That was another comparison posted on Twitter last night. Sheahan 17-18 at 3C compared to Brass's time here at 3C. It wasn't pretty.

I liked Sheahans game when he comfortable here. Haven't seen him anywhere near that level this year.
- Thorny87

I still believe that the biggest problem is how GMJR constructed the defense and that replacing Brass or any other forward isn’t going to help the problem.

I still believe that the biggest problem is how GMJR constructed the defense and that replacing Brass or any other forward isn’t going to help the problem.
- j.boyd919

So why not approach it the other way. If Sheahan had decent 3C numbers here trade Brass for a defender that can help out? Not sure who we'd target that we could afford.

So why not approach it the other way. If Sheahan had decent 3C numbers here trade Brass for a defender that can help out? Not sure who we'd target that we could afford.
- Thorny87

DeKeyser.

So why not approach it the other way. If Sheahan had decent 3C numbers here trade Brass for a defender that can help out? Not sure who we'd target that we could afford.
- Thorny87

This is a lot easier said than done. Part of adding a quality dman is at least one dman having to get moved out.

Letang, Dumo, Maatta, Oleksiak, Schultz, JJ and Pettersson. Someone has to move out and I don't know how likely it is that the ones that would need to move out would actually get moved out.

I agree with j.boyd that improving the forward core doesn't fix the problem, but I do think it's something that is much easier to accomplish and would help a little.

So why not approach it the other way. If Sheahan had decent 3C numbers here trade Brass for a defender that can help out? Not sure who we'd target that we could afford.
- Thorny87

I wouldn’t be opposed to that. But the problem is they have JJ, JO, Petterson, and Rikolla who don’t fit the mold. So one or two of them have to go too. I don’t see JJ getting traded so who do you move out? Oleksiak? Maatta? Rikolla?

I’d like to see Oleksiak and Rikolla shipped out and run:
Letang-Dumo
Trade-Maatta
JJ-Petterson

Until Schultz gets pack and then stick JJ in the press box when he gets back.

I still believe that the biggest problem is how GMJR constructed the defense and that replacing Brass or any other forward isn’t going to help the problem.
- j.boyd919

You mean how he destructed it...Shultz could hardly find ice time in our 15-16 run. Im not saying lovejoy, daley, cole were superstars, but they were at least competant players who could handle making more than 1 pass without puking on themselves. Our bottom 4 are absolutely atrocious now.

I wouldn’t be opposed to that. But the problem is they have JJ, JO, Petterson, and Rikolla who don’t fit the mold. So one or two of them have to go too. I don’t see JJ getting traded so who do you move out? Oleksiak? Maatta? Rikolla?

I’d like to see Oleksiak and Rikolla shipped out and run:
Letang-Dumo
Trade-Maatta
JJ-Petterson

Until Schultz gets pack and then stick JJ in the press box when he gets back.
- j.boyd919

I don't see the need to move Riikola since he's on a two-way contract. I also disagree that he doesn't fit the mold. He's still green, but I think his style is more in-line with the 15/16 team. I'd hold on to him since it doesn't have a real affect on the roster.

We all know JJ isn't going anywhere. The players the make the most sense to get moved out are Maatta and Olekisak, but we still don't know how highly they regard JO.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure if Riikola is a two-way contract.

This is a lot easier said than done. Part of adding a quality dman is at least one dman having to get moved out.

Letang, Dumo, Maatta, Oleksiak, Schultz, JJ and Pettersson. Someone has to move out and I don't know how likely it is that the ones that would need to move out would actually get moved out.

I agree with j.boyd that improving the forward core doesn't fix the problem, but I do think it's something that is much easier to accomplish and would help a little.
- Rinosaur

You have a problem with that? Moving any of JJ, Oleksiak, Petersson, Maatta?

You have a problem with that? Moving any of JJ, Oleksiak, Petersson, Maatta?
- Thorny87

Do I have a problem with it? No, that's not what's relevant. It's two things:

1) Have the Pens soured on either of them enough to move them?
2) Is it that easy to move them?

So why not approach it the other way. If Sheahan had decent 3C numbers here trade Brass for a defender that can help out? Not sure who we'd target that we could afford.
- Thorny87

This would be a great way to do it, if other GM's had the 2016 Brass in their head. But Brass has little to no value because of how bad he has been playing and his injuries. So I think his potential value to us at his percieved low cost is much higher than anything we could get in return, until the trade dealine.

I wouldn’t be opposed to that. But the problem is they have JJ, JO, Petterson, and Rikolla who don’t fit the mold. So one or two of them have to go too. I don’t see JJ getting traded so who do you move out? Oleksiak? Maatta? Rikolla?

I’d like to see Oleksiak and Rikolla shipped out and run:
Letang-Dumo
Trade-Maatta
JJ-Petterson

Until Schultz gets pack and then stick JJ in the press box when he gets back.
- j.boyd919

Does anyone stick out to you?

Hasn't Petan been a healthy scratch all year?
- Thorny87

Basically he hasn't been given an opportunity.

DeKeyser.
- RafiDRW

x2

Do I have a problem with it? No, that's not what's relevant. It's two things:

1) Have the Pens soured on either of them enough to move them?
2) Is it that easy to move them?
- Rinosaur

If one of them is paired with a low cost Brassard? Any way you look at it the other team would have to eat or take back salary. Brass' hit is pretty sweet.

I think JO still has value.

If one of them is paired with a low cost Brassard? Any way you look at it the other team would have to eat or take back salary. Brass' hit is pretty sweet.

I think JO still has value.
- Thorny87

But do the Pens want to move JO? We don't know. Last we knew they feel he has a pretty high ceiling.