Michael Pachla: Which Sabres team will show up tonight @ San Jose? Plus, pipeline notes

First?

Bump

I get your point, but the counter argument here could be that they did. Remember, they picked up ROR's big ass bonus. It's likely that had this gone past the bonus payment deadline, the deal would be sans berglund and likely one of thompson/1st rounder
- Sabresfan-365

I don't think that's how it would have gone done. You're saying the Sabres pay the 7.5M, don't get Berglund nor Thompson/1st? Seems like the Sabres would have gotten more (albeit, how much and what IDK) had they paid the bonus. The Blues are up against the cap I believe, so they had to make the cap work.

They’re gonna get steamrolled !

5-1

They still can’t score.

Bump




I don't think that's how it would have gone done. You're saying the Sabres pay the 7.5M, don't get Berglund nor Thompson/1st? Seems like the Sabres would have gotten more (albeit, how much and what IDK) had they paid the bonus. The Blues are up against the cap I believe, so they had to make the cap work.
- SDSabre

I think it would've turned into no berglund and the first turning into some conditional 2nd rounder.

I dont buy that the price would go up because there were really only 2 suitors for him (MTL and STL). Once montreal bowed out Botts lost a ton of leverage. I think they wanted at least a good prospect and first and St louis wanted Berglunds cap hit off the books so they said they'd give up the first+thompson and pay the bonus as long as the sabres could take both Berglund and Sobotka.

If it goes to august the deal is probably Sobotka, Thompson, two 2nd rounders. Its not as much about his value as much as it is that STL could wait it out to get their price

Edit: I think Berglund had value and would've been moved to another team

Housley confirm Hutton in goal. Berglund out as a scratch. Elie in. #Sabres

I just don't see that. I don't see how getting them to pay the bonus somehow increased the return. If you want to play the as soon as Montreal bowed out, ok, but then more suitors show up once JT signs in Toronto. I don't think you'll ever be able to convince me that getting STL to PAY the bonus INCREASED the return. That's some mental gymnastics I just can't do.

Edit: If you need an example of another suitor, NYI probably jump into the mix.

I think it would've turned into no berglund and the first turning into some conditional 2nd rounder.

I dont buy that the price would go up because there were really only 2 suitors for him (MTL and STL). Once montreal bowed out Botts lost a ton of leverage. I think they wanted at least a good prospect and first and St louis wanted Berglunds cap hit off the books so they said they'd give up the first+thompson and pay the bonus as long as the sabres could take both Berglund and Sobotka.

If it goes to august the deal is probably Sobotka, Thompson, two 2nd rounders. Its not as much about his value as much as it is that STL could wait it out to get their price

Edit: I think Berglund had value and would've been moved to another team
- Sabresfan-365

Agreed, so it really isn't a "cap dump"

I just don't see that. I don't see how getting them to pay the bonus somehow increased the return. If you want to play the as soon as Montreal bowed out, ok, but then more suitors show up once JT signs in Toronto. I don't think you'll ever be able to convince me that getting STL to PAY the bonus INCREASED the return. That's some mental gymnastics I just can't do.

Edit: If you need an example of another suitor, NYI probably jump into the mix.
- SDSabre

Yeah this doesn't sound like a business transaction anyone would enter into, much less a Michigan MBA.

Agreed, so it really isn't a "cap dump"
- sbroads24

Probably not. I think his contract would have put a dent in his actual value. I assume they would have been able to move him without adding assets on their end if that's the definition.

However, it's likely that 2 years from now thats how we'll have to move him. My original point before Fitz jumped in was that he should be included in that list of guys that they should look to move with 21,4,6 over the next 12-18 months so that it doesnt get to a point where you're giving up assets to get rid of his deal.

I just don't see that. I don't see how getting them to pay the bonus somehow increased the return. If you want to play the as soon as Montreal bowed out, ok, but then more suitors show up once JT signs in Toronto. I don't think you'll ever be able to convince me that getting STL to PAY the bonus INCREASED the return. That's some mental gymnastics I just can't do.

Edit: If you need an example of another suitor, NYI probably jump into the mix.
- SDSabre

Im not saying STL paying the bonus increased the return. Im saying had they not, the Sabres wouldn't have accepted taking on both Sobotka and Berglunds contract and I think regardless of that the Blues really didnt want to part with both thompson and a first unless they could find a way to get both of the books. It's likely a separate deal for Berglund involves either a contract coming back or really bad value.

Why Hutton?

Would have definitely gone Ullmark

Housley confirm Hutton in goal. Berglund out as a scratch. Elie in. #Sabres
- adambuffalo

McCabe needs the press box 2 games ago

Agreed, so it really isn't a "cap dump"
- sbroads24

Fine. Don’t call it a Cap Dump if u wanna get into semantics

It’s a bad contract bc he has an NTC,
and it lasts for 3 more years after this

Are u trying to say we should want the “speedy” Berglund for that long?
Bc i sure don’t

What you're not taking into consideration is that they had to get both off the books to fit ROR. And you are saying BUF paying the bonus would decrease the return, so by deductive reasoning that means STL paying the bonus increased the return. If the sabres wouldn't have "accepted" the dirty pod racer and Berglund, then STL comes back and says take off Thompson or the first rounder Botts probably says no deal and we have the man bun in the locker room today ( or on a different roster not in STL)

Fine. Don’t call it a Cap Dump if u wanna get into semantics

It’s a bad contract bc he has an NTC,
and it lasts for 3 more years after this

Are u trying to say we should want the “speedy” Berglund for that long?
Bc i sure don’t
- jdfitz77

Based on his first 6 games? No.

Based on what his career has been so far, yeah I don't think it's a huge issue.

He has averaged pretty much exactly 20 goals per 82 games and plays defense.

He's a good 3rd liner at this point

Housley confirm Hutton in goal. Berglund out as a scratch. Elie in. #Sabres
- adambuffalo

😂😂😂

Is Berglund hurt?
Or is he just so average that a guy we claimed off waivers is taking his place?

Any word on lines with Berglund out

Any word on lines with Berglund out
- jcragcrumple

yeah he did too many the other night in vegas and set a poor example for jack and sam

Based on his first 6 games? No.

Based on what his career has been so far, yeah I don't think it's a huge issue.

He has averaged pretty much exactly 20 goals per 82 games and plays defense.

He's a good 3rd liner at this point
- sbroads24

StL has seen this coming
They moved him to the wing bc he wasn’t playing well at Center
Now, we are asking him to take on the tough defensive assignments at the position he hadn’t even been playing

He doesn’t suck
But he’s slow
Has little to no playmaking skill
And we are stuck with him for 4 years

It’s fine if he scores 15-20goals for us
But i doubt that happens

So whether or not u wanna call it a Cap Dump...
these are the types of players/contracts we all want gone
And while there may have been arguments for moving ROR (which i obviously disagree with)
There really aren’t any good arguments for bringing in Sobatka & Berglund

Tell me u wouldn’t replace them with Asplund & Nylander RIGHT NOW
I’ll bet ya almost everyone here would

Any word on lines with Berglund out
- jcragcrumple

Practice lines were:

Sheary-Eichel-Reinhart
Skinner-Mittelstadt-Okposo
Elie-Sobatka-Thompson
Girgensons-Rodrigues-Pominville

Defense the same

StL has seen this coming
They moved him to the wing bc he wasn’t playing well at Center
Now, we are asking him to take on the tough defensive assignments at the position he hadn’t even been playing

He doesn’t suck
But he’s slow
Has little to no playmaking skill
And we are stuck with him for 4 years

It’s fine if he scores 15-20goals for us
But i doubt that happens

So whether or not i wanna call it a Cap Dump...
these are the types of players/contracts we all want gone
And while there may have been arguments for moving ROR (which i obviously disagree with)
There really aren’t any good arguments for bringing in Sobatka & Berglund

Tell me u wouldn’t replace them with Asplund & Nylander RIGHT NOW
I’ll bet ya almost everyone here would
- jdfitz77

Talent-wise you are probably right. Having so many young Swedes on this team though, and having a guy they've all probably looked up to as kids doesn't hurt for now (shrug). ~4M in 3 years might (probably) look gross, but like I said before there are gross contracts on most teams. It's about keeping them to a minimum.

7-2 Sharks

E. Kane with a Gordie Howe hat trick vs Remi Elie

What you're not taking into consideration is that they had to get both off the books to fit ROR. And you are saying BUF paying the bonus would decrease the return, so by deductive reasoning that means STL paying the bonus increased the return. If the sabres wouldn't have "accepted" the dirty pod racer and Berglund, then STL comes back and says take off Thompson or the first rounder Botts probably says no deal and we have the man bun in the locker room today ( or on a different roster not in STL)
- SDSabre

Im probably guilty of poor logic or communication here but to me, BUF paying the bonus means that they won't take on a bad deal, thats positive value. But, as you mentioned, the deal doesn't work unless Berglund is moved as well. Now, they could move him to a different team to create that space, but the return likely involves a contract they dont want coming back. My personal opinion is that the Blues didnt want to move both Thompson and their first. I think they did it because it was the easiest way to a)add talent, b)get rid of both contracts c)not take on a deal they didn't want

I do agree with your conclusion because I believe once the bonus is paid out and Berglund goes in a separate deal both sides stand firm. Im also of the opinion that the isles wouldn't have gotten involved. After taking the hit with Tavares leaving, moving assets for ROR would have just set them back long term.

StL has seen this coming
They moved him to the wing bc he wasn’t playing well at Center
Now, we are asking him to take on the tough defensive assignments at the position he hadn’t even been playing

He doesn’t suck
But he’s slow
Has little to no playmaking skill
And we are stuck with him for 4 years

It’s fine if he scores 15-20goals for us
But i doubt that happens

So whether or not i wanna call it a Cap Dump...
these are the types of players/contracts we all want gone
And while there may have been arguments for moving ROR (which i obviously disagree with)
There really aren’t any good arguments for bringing in Sobatka & Berglund

Tell me u wouldn’t replace them with Asplund & Nylander RIGHT NOW
I’ll bet ya almost everyone here would
- jdfitz77

If it goes that badly (I don't think it will) - buying him out next year is $2m for 2 years, and $1m for 3 years after that. If they wait another year, it goes down.