Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Giroux & Voracek, FlyerBuzz, Howe and More

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Giroux & Voracek, FlyerBuzz, Howe and More
- bmeltzer

buwhahahahahaha

Ghost be Gone from Relevance

Miss the days when players spoke their minds during interviews, good for you Mark!

That is a travesty of a list on so many levels. I'm glad you added no commentary to let that insanity stand on its own! LOL

That is a travesty of a list on so many levels. I'm glad you added no commentary to let that insanity stand on its own! LOL
- Boyer83

Yup. I did have to comment, though, on Provorov's total omission.

Yup. I did have to comment, though, on Provorov's total omission.
- bmeltzer

Provy's time will come. Look how long it took Coots to get serious Selke consideration. Granted, this is a list compiled of NHL writers, but I think the same applies. Provy just needs another year of outstanding stats for people to realize just how good he is.

Provy's time will come. Look how long it took Coots to get serious Selke consideration. Granted, this is a list compiled of NHL writers, but I think the same applies. Provy just needs another year of outstanding stats for people to realize just how good he is.
- cdearth23

Hopefully Provorov will have highlight reel goal of the year next season...that is how players are evaluated as the best.

Provy's time will come. Look how long it took Coots to get serious Selke consideration. Granted, this is a list compiled of NHL writers, but I think the same applies. Provy just needs another year of outstanding stats for people to realize just how good he is.
- cdearth23

Exactly, I think Flyers media and fans know that it should have been Provy on the list and Ghost at honorable mention. But as the media around the league sees more of Provy they will learn to appreciate him more. As I said when the discussion of the D list happened when it aired. Give him 2-3 years of consistent play of the level he did last season and he'll be top 5 on those lists.

It's a worthless ranking, but I don't understand the need to put Provorov on a pedestal and diminish an almost 70 point Ghost.

I remember for years people defending Giroux's PP production as equally important to 5v5, but Ghost being the best PP d-man in the league -- and Ivan arguably one of the worst in production -- isn't factored in to "best all-around defenseman." Maybe in terms of well-rounded skill-set, but what happens on the ice is most important. Another feather in Provorov's cap is being the main PKing defenseman......on the 2nd worst PK in the league, even if that wasn't entirely on him. And if you want to use his goals as an argument, which were impressive, 3 were scored on an empty net. That was the most in the league; the 2nd most this decade. I know some people already are linear projecting more goals and more points, but who wants to take the under on goals/points next year? I will.

Ghost played on the same top pair as Provorov for most of the season, and the top pair only took off WITH him. That doesn't mean I don't put more blame on MacDonald for that than Provorov, but the top pair was night and day with Ghost on it. They each improved each other and had amazing chemistry. I view them as each other's yin and yang, continuing to be equally important in different ways. Blasphemy!

1.) I'm guessing Larry Pleau regrets that particular day of trading, but I guess it didn't matter, because the Whalers brought him back in the late 80's as a coach and he went on to a 13 year career as GM with the Blues.

2.) That was a stellar mullet that Mark Howe rocked back then.

It's a worthless ranking, but I don't understand the need to put Provorov on a pedestal and diminish an almost 70 point Ghost.

I remember for years people defending Giroux's PP production as equally important to 5v5, but Ghost being the best PP d-man in the league -- and Ivan arguably one of the worst in production -- isn't factored in to "best all-around defenseman." Maybe in terms of well-rounded skill-set, but what happens on the ice is most important. Another feather in Provorov's cap is being the main PKing defenseman......on the 2nd worst PK in the league, even if that wasn't entirely on him. And if you want to use his goals as an argument, which were impressive, 3 were scored on an empty net. That was the most in the league; the 2nd most this decade. I know some people already are linear projecting more goals and more points, but who wants to take the under on goals/points next year? I will.

Ghost played on the same top pair as Provorov for most of the season, and the top pair only took off WITH him. That doesn't mean I don't put more blame on MacDonald for that than Provorov, but the top pair was night and day with Ghost on it. They each improved each other and had amazing chemistry. I view them as each other's yin and yang, continuing to be equally important in different ways. Blasphemy!


- Mononoke

Obviously Ghost is a great player and most fans are super happy to have him on the team, but put a gun to my head and make me choose between Ghost and Provorov...the Ghost disappears faster than Lindsay Lohan's career.

It's a worthless ranking, but I don't understand the need to put Provorov on a pedestal and diminish an almost 70 point Ghost.

I remember for years people defending Giroux's PP production as equally important to 5v5, but Ghost being the best PP d-man in the league -- and Ivan arguably one of the worst in production -- isn't factored in to "best all-around defenseman." Maybe in terms of well-rounded skill-set, but what happens on the ice is most important. Another feather in Provorov's cap is being the main PKing defenseman......on the 2nd worst PK in the league, even if that wasn't entirely on him. And if you want to use his goals as an argument, which were impressive, 3 were scored on an empty net. That was the most in the league; the 2nd most this decade. I know some people already are linear projecting more goals and more points, but who wants to take the under on goals/points next year? I will.

Ghost played on the same top pair as Provorov for most of the season, and the top pair only took off WITH him. That doesn't mean I don't put more blame on MacDonald for that than Provorov, but the top pair was night and day with Ghost on it. They each improved each other and had amazing chemistry. I view them as each other's yin and yang, continuing to be equally important in different ways. Blasphemy!


- Mononoke

I love that this debate is about 2 Flyers! I am happy that they will both be a part of this organIzation for many years to come!

I hope that this debate continues throughout the entirety of both of their careers! and at some point Sanheim gets thrown in there.

It's a worthless ranking, but I don't understand the need to put Provorov on a pedestal and diminish an almost 70 point Ghost.

I remember for years people defending Giroux's PP production as equally important to 5v5, but Ghost being the best PP d-man in the league -- and Ivan arguably one of the worst in production -- isn't factored in to "best all-around defenseman." Maybe in terms of well-rounded skill-set, but what happens on the ice is most important. Another feather in Provorov's cap is being the main PKing defenseman......on the 2nd worst PK in the league, even if that wasn't entirely on him. And if you want to use his goals as an argument, which were impressive, 3 were scored on an empty net. That was the most in the league; the 2nd most this decade. I know some people already are linear projecting more goals and more points, but who wants to take the under on goals/points next year? I will.

Ghost played on the same top pair as Provorov for most of the season, and the top pair only took off WITH him. That doesn't mean I don't put more blame on MacDonald for that than Provorov, but the top pair was night and day with Ghost on it. They each improved each other and had amazing chemistry. I view them as each other's yin and yang, continuing to be equally important in different ways. Blasphemy!


- Mononoke

Yup. Some people are going to think you're saying Ghost carried the pair and/or Provorov is bad/overrated. Both are false.

There was a whole lot of times this season where people would say "wow, Provorov is (frank)ing amazing". Simply put, more people need to say that about Ghost more often.

What a pair to have.

Yup. Some people are going to think you're saying Ghost carried the pair and/or Provorov is bad/overrated. Both are false.

There was a whole lot of times this season where people would say "wow, Provorov is (frank)ing amazing". Simply put, more people need to say that about Ghost more often.

What a pair to have.
- Giroux_Is_God

Agreed, it's a great problem to have and most teams would love to have that situation. It is just unfortunate that one player gets more credit due to a more lively play style.

So in like 15 years?

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Giroux & Voracek, FlyerBuzz, Howe and More
- bmeltzer

It’s not that I don’t like Shayne Gostisbehere, I do. It’s just that Ghost isn’t an all situation defenseman. The very best defensemen play on the top pair, eat the most minutes nightly among all their teammates, play on the top PP and start most, if not all PK’s. This is what top defensemen who contend for Noris trophies should be.

Provorov does everything I listed outside of play on the number one PP and if there wasn’t a Shayne Gostisbehere on this team, I have no doubt Ivan Provorov would slide right into that spot. Not to mention Ivan Provorov makes whoever he plays with better. No other Dman on this team does this.

Apparently defenseman have to post significantly high offense. Anybody who pays close attention to the Flyers and understand the game of hockey knows how good he is. Pay no mind to that list.

Some sick lettuce Howe was sportn'.

Ghost played on the same top pair as Provorov for most of the season, and the top pair only took off WITH him. That doesn't mean I don't put more blame on MacDonald for that than Provorov, but the top pair was night and day with Ghost on it. They each improved each other and had amazing chemistry. I view them as each other's yin and yang, continuing to be equally important in different ways. Blasphemy!


- Mononoke

What were the game situations where Gostisbehere was taken off of the pairing and replaced with MacDonald?

What were the game situations where Gostisbehere was taken off of the pairing and replaced with MacDonald?
- MJL

What were the game situations where Gostisbehere was taken off of the pairing and replaced with MacDonald?
- MJL

I’m gonna start with a poor playoff preference, when hockey matters the most. People have to stop with the Ghost is a top pair, number one defenseman stuff.

Great speed. Great with the puck. Best point shot on the team. None of this is defense related.

- Nucker101

Agreed, it's a great problem to have and most teams would love to have that situation. It is just unfortunate that one player gets more credit due to a more lively play style.
- Glak18

classic

I really like Ghost but imo he's struggled in his two playoff showings so far.

I really like Ghost but imo he's struggled in his two playoff showings so far.
- flyer_nutter

Playoffs? Are you talking playoffs...playoffs? We talkin' bout playoffs? Playoffs?