Trevor Shackles: Thursday Think Tank Various thoughts for the day

"Think Tank"

The Ottawa Senators new long term motto?

I believe that Karlsson will be traded but the longer it is delayed, the better. Still think there must be some pressure to try and ensure that the trade of Karlsson does not negatively influence the future sale of the team

I’d be shocked if the Senators ever did something like this because it’s smart business.

FIFY

At this point, if Stone wont re-sign I’d be super angry as a Senators fan. The whole draft and future of the squad would be completely different knowing Stone wouldn’t re-sign. You give up number 4 but probably get 1-3 1st rounders in deals for Stone, Karlsson, and Duchene. Tank hard with your new found youth and pick Hughes number 1. Which would turn the organization over quickly.

None of that happened and to make matters worse the division has gotten harder. Not dogging Ottawa here as the Canes aren’t a model of success.

We are where we are. The Canes could offer a good package of nhl ready futures and roster players to keep you better than NYI while helping the future. It would take something hefty but I’d love Stone and Duchene. Is holding all three until the deadline to maximize points in the standings the better option?

Trevor Shackles: Thursday Think Tank
Various thoughts for the day
- Trevor Shackles

Trevor, you will absolutely get top dollar rental value for EK from 18-20 teams in the hunt for playoffs with EK as that missing piece. Gm's make mistakes on UFA frenzy day & on the Trade Deadline. You would get more than what Shattenkirk got. Curious, do you actually know what was offered at the TDL because maybe it wasnt what was offered but what the whacko ask was. Cough...Hoffman... EK's salary would be easy to fit as a rental, so you certainly could get a bidding at the TDL.
Also, the team may get sold before the TDL, yeah I know, a pipe dream, but it is possible. Maybe Sens have a rebound year & EK starts to have fun again & decides to stay. You also have a shot at getting additional conditional assets should he resign with the team you trade him to. If I were Dorion, I would go public that if teams & EK cant get a deal done by training camp, he'll be taken off the market until the new year.

Man this is hard to stomach. One of the best defencemen in the game rejecting ten million per. Screw off then. There had better be a serious bounty coming back from Tampa or wherever. This whole thing stinks. This is NBA bull. I hate it

If anyone is interested in joining a Fantasy Hockey League on Yahoo hit me up! (PM)

Hockey can't come back quick enough.

More like Sink Tank!

Or maybe stink tank

I believe that Karlsson will be traded but the longer it is delayed, the better. Still think there must be some pressure to try and ensure that the trade of Karlsson does not negatively influence the future sale of the team
- spatso

I think the longer the better too, until the Sens get what they want. Duchene took forever but the Avs got what they wanted. It took some really creative dealing but they what they wanted back and the Sens need to do the same.

I think the longer the better too, until the Sens get what they want. Duchene took forever but the Avs got what they wanted. It took some really creative dealing but they what they wanted back and the Sens need to do the same.
- 13sundin13

This is fairly standard bargaining protocol. Don’t say anything. Use time for leverage. Delay and then delay again. When somebody says they are giving you their best and final offer you can be certain they have more to give.

Dorion is probably out the door once a new ownership group comes in. If he ever wants a decent job in hockey he is better to do nothing and just leave quietly. Saying no to one idea is leaving the door open to saying yes to something else.

But, I also believe the deal with TAMPa is done subject to approval by Ottawa ownership. Just not sure what ownership means when it comes to the SEnators.

At this point, if Stone wont re-sign I’d be super angry as a Senators fan. The whole draft and future of the squad would be completely different knowing Stone wouldn’t re-sign. You give up number 4 but probably get 1-3 1st rounders in deals for Stone, Karlsson, and Duchene. Tank hard with your new found youth and pick Hughes number 1. Which would turn the organization over quickly.

None of that happened and to make matters worse the division has gotten harder. Not dogging Ottawa here as the Canes aren’t a model of success.

We are where we are. The Canes could offer a good package of nhl ready futures and roster players to keep you better than NYI while helping the future. It would take something hefty but I’d love Stone and Duchene. Is holding all three until the deadline to maximize points in the standings the better option?
- gocanes0506

Avs have their 1st round pick next year. It's fair to say Ottawa will not get Hughes.

I think the longer the better too, until the Sens get what they want. Duchene took forever but the Avs got what they wanted. It took some really creative dealing but they what they wanted back and the Sens need to do the same.
- 13sundin13

Yup, might as well try that tactic. Sure seemed to benefit Avs in a big way. And Karlsson has much more value than Duchene.

Avs have their 1st round pick next year. It's fair to say Ottawa will not get Hughes.
- LeafGuy89

Missed the part where I said give up the #4? Ottawa should have given up the #4 OA and looked to tank this season.

A few thoughts:

If the offers for Karlsson are not strong enough right now there are many reasons to wait until the trade deadline:

1. The offers may be almost as good to get him as a rental to try and win the Cup this year. It would also open up the market to many more teams.

2. Having him on the team will make them better this season and reduce the chance of more embarrassment when they have to give a lottery pick to Colorado.

3. It buys time for a potential sale of the team. If that happens before the trade deadline the chance of him re-signing with Ottawa suddenly becomes much higher.

Finally, I agree that taking on some contracts to gain assets would be a smart thing to do. It wold help the team's long-term outlook. Unfortunately, having a broke, penny pinching owner prevents those type of smart, long-term decisions from happening.

Whether or not it’s inevitable that Karlsson is traded is now besides the point. The Senators may be done in Ottawa. The resulting backlash from the fan base for losing EK65 will see the CTC with crowds at half capacity. I am starting to believe that this has been Melnyck’s plan all along. Create a hostile relationship with the fan base, trade away the franchise player and use the resulting ill-will and poor attendance as his basis for convincing Bettman that he should be allowed to re-locate. He’s already made the comment at the outdoor game and his actions with regards to the roster show something is afoot.

This will be the worst season for the Senators in the modern era. I honestly can find no silver lining to the situation as it now stands.

If Melnyk for the sake of saving $$$ is stupid enough to gut the Senators by getting rid of all his good players (i.e. Karlsson, Stone and Duchene), then he deserves to own a worthless franchise that will have few if any fans. But in this case I think he is too shrewd to allow the Sens value to tank, considering it is his remaining asset of any value, and I believe he does want to sell, despite what he tells the media.

At this stage Trev, everyday you should think tank.

Whether or not it’s inevitable that Karlsson is traded is now besides the point. The Senators may be done in Ottawa. The resulting backlash from the fan base for losing EK65 will see the CTC with crowds at half capacity. I am starting to believe that this has been Melnyck’s plan all along. Create a hostile relationship with the fan base, trade away the franchise player and use the resulting ill-will and poor attendance as his basis for convincing Bettman that he should be allowed to re-locate. He’s already made the comment at the outdoor game and his actions with regards to the roster show something is afoot.

This will be the worst season for the Senators in the modern era. I honestly can find no silver lining to the situation as it now stands.
- jaz258

Don't worry about this happening. It is entirely beyond Melnyk's control. The team is controlled by its creditors. This would include both the financing on the team and on the CTC centre as well. My understanding is that local Ottawa interests have been buying up some of the Melnyk debt already.

A few thoughts:

If the offers for Karlsson are not strong enough right now there are many reasons to wait until the trade deadline:

1. The offers may be almost as good to get him as a rental to try and win the Cup this year. It would also open up the market to many more teams.

2. Having him on the team will make them better this season and reduce the chance of more embarrassment when they have to give a lottery pick to Colorado.

3. It buys time for a potential sale of the team. If that happens before the trade deadline the chance of him re-signing with Ottawa suddenly becomes much higher.

Finally, I agree that taking on some contracts to gain assets would be a smart thing to do. It wold help the team's long-term outlook. Unfortunately, having a broke, penny pinching owner prevents those type of smart, long-term decisions from happening.
- punchanello77

Firstly your #1 point I mentioned the other day & may be the best option for a couple of reasons.

Secondly, the bolded. I'm still waiting to see what the Yotes have done with their assets obtained by taking on other teams garbage. Last I looked they were still swirling around the bowl waiting to get flushed.

A few thoughts:

If the offers for Karlsson are not strong enough right now there are many reasons to wait until the trade deadline:

1. The offers may be almost as good to get him as a rental to try and win the Cup this year. It would also open up the market to many more teams.

2. Having him on the team will make them better this season and reduce the chance of more embarrassment when they have to give a lottery pick to Colorado.

3. It buys time for a potential sale of the team. If that happens before the trade deadline the chance of him re-signing with Ottawa suddenly becomes much higher.

Finally, I agree that taking on some contracts to gain assets would be a smart thing to do. It wold help the team's long-term outlook. Unfortunately, having a broke, penny pinching owner prevents those type of smart, long-term decisions from happening.
- punchanello77

1. wasn't the deal at least year's trade deadline the offers weren't good enough and they were suppose to be better at the draft? I doubt they'll be more serious bidders. only 3-4 (similar to now) will be making good offers at the tdl. 20 games plus 1 playoffs isn't going to cost a ton. see kovaluchuk.

2. sunk costs. can't worry about that pick for future decisions.

3. this seems reasonable.

Whether or not it’s inevitable that Karlsson is traded is now besides the point. The Senators may be done in Ottawa. The resulting backlash from the fan base for losing EK65 will see the CTC with crowds at half capacity. I am starting to believe that this has been Melnyck’s plan all along. Create a hostile relationship with the fan base, trade away the franchise player and use the resulting ill-will and poor attendance as his basis for convincing Bettman that he should be allowed to re-locate. He’s already made the comment at the outdoor game and his actions with regards to the roster show something is afoot.

This will be the worst season for the Senators in the modern era. I honestly can find no silver lining to the situation as it now stands.
- jaz258

I really don't think moving the team will help Melnyk one bit. Everyone knows how bad of an owner he is and how cheap he is. Even if he did move the team would any fan want to follow a team still owned by him?

I really don't think moving the team will help Melnyk one bit. Everyone knows how bad of an owner he is and how cheap he is. Even if he did move the team would any fan want to follow a team still owned by him?
- kratosmr

The league will NEVER let them move. Expansion fees earn the league and owners 500mil. Plus, forcing a change in ownership is much easier than moving a team, especially when ottawa is a good market.

The league will NEVER let them move. Expansion fees earn the league and owners 500mil. Plus, forcing a change in ownership is much easier than moving a team, especially when ottawa is a good market.
- sensarmy_11

There are at least two very affluent local groups competing to buy the team and take control of the LeBretton development. This project can be in the range of $3.5 to $8.0 billion depending on how you compute the multiple level of projects and the variety of interests wanting the Sens to locate downtown.

Melnyk is just hanging on trying to push the price higher. Creditors continue to tighten the noose. Local businesses are backing away from him and the outcome is inevitable. I believe everyone has known for awhile the names and numbers that will be involved in the sale of the team.