What is happening?
- Justin Lowe

The sharks were able to unload Boedker add picks and have money now that they feel that Tavares is really NOT off the market...
add a second next year and move into the 5th this year for a 7th...


COULD Hoffman's deal have included a trade list that stood up only for the first (one) trade? (I never heard of such a thing, but I too would love to hear SJ explanation.


what begs the question is WHY couldn't Ottawa, in a full rebuild try and get that 4th and 5th from Florida directly...

if is not like Mikkel Boedker is comparable or a franchise keystone...

BREAKING: Florida Panthers acquire F Mike Hoffman, 2018 7th-round pick from the #Sharks for 2019 2nd-round pick, 2018 4th-round pick and 2018 5th-round pick #TSNHockey pic.twitter.com/EHZrKE5Fss

— SportsCentre (@SportsCentre) June 19, 2018

- DarthKane

Does the press release mention that Tallon has found Hoffman's girlfriend a full time job in Cuba?

What is happening?
- Justin Lowe

San Jose is clearing cap space....are they preparing to make a run for Tavares?

So in essence, Doug Wilson:

- Traded Boedker (cleared $4 mil/yr of cap space)
- “meh” prospect
- 6th round pick in 2020
- 7th round pick in 2018

And acquired:
- 2nd round pick in 2019
- 4th round pick in 2018
- 5th round pick in 2018
- “meh” prospect
- 5th round pick in 2020

That is some kind of wizardry. Kudos to him.

So in essence, Doug Wilson:

- Traded Boedker (cleared $4 mil/yr of cap space)
- “meh” prospect
- 6th round pick in 2020
- 7th round pick in 2018

And acquired:
- 2nd round pick in 2019
- 4th round pick in 2018
- 5th round pick in 2018
- “meh” prospect
- 5th round pick in 2020

That is some kind of wizardry. Kudos to him.
- TommyHawk

I agree...and Ottawa again look GM Pierre Dorion's work looks ...befuddling.

Forgot they were at ND this yr. Indeed that will raise interest..... First thing I guess is wait until season ticket holders get their tix sometime in August and see what the aftermarket looks like.

Ever been to an outdoor game?
- Mr Ricochet

I guess the season ticket holders presale for that game will be till mid of July, so I'll have a look at what is left then...

No, only went to the SCF in 2013 spontaneously and thought the Winter Classic would be a good opportunity for my 2nd trip to Chicago and to show my girlfriend the passion for the Hawks and the city

I've been to an outdoor game of my favourite team here in Germany once. It was fun, but of course not comparable skill level at all Curious btw how Kahun will do in a Hawks sweater... And just saw Ben Smith signed with another German team joining Desi there.

If neither Edjsell or the pick don’t turn into anything at the NHL level, they didn’t give Hartman away for nothing, they gave him away for what they saw as 2 solid shots at an NHL player a couple years down the line. If the pick and the prospect don’t pan out, it isn’t really fair to say that it was a bad trade at the time it was made because of the probabilistic nature of player development.

Yes my example is an outlier, but it isn’t meant to represent a common scenario, it’s meant to show that there is a flaw in valuing trades for picks and prospects based on what actually happens to these players. These trades have to be assessed based on what the value was of the assets at the time of the trade.

I think it’s best to think of picks and prospects as something like lottery tickets. Let’s say you have a lottery ticket with a 10% chance of winning $100. The real value of that ticket is $10. Now let’s say the ticket is being sold for $5, then it would be smart to buy the ticket, just based on expected value. Much like picks and prospects, the value of the ticket is determined at the time of purchase. If you buy the ticket and it losses, it was still objectively a good purchase, even though you have come up empty handed. That is the same way that I believe we have to assess trades, and I am sure it’s what they are doing at the management level to assess their trading performance.
- LaheysBRandy

If the objective of trades is to make a team better at winning hockey games, then how is a trade that results in no players making it to the NHL good? Again, it's all about asset management - they had a proven useful asset in Hartman and gave him away for a shot at useful assets. If the latter does not turn out to be useful, then they did not get anything of useful value for Hartman. It'd be different if they were getting something like cap space, but they're not.

Jfyi, if an example is an outlier, then it doesn't really prove anything except that there are exceptions to everything imo. And your lottery example says the opposite to me because you still got nothing for your money if you don't win. That's why people say "you're throwing your money away" when you play the lottery.

Perceived value vs realized value = the latter is more important to me. We don't have to agree on this, though, and that's fine.

Since he played on the Memorial Cup winner, Dobson has clearly moved up in the rankings to be the top North American D man available. Remains to be seen if the real hockey guys think he's worth being selected in the top 5 overall. (Although Ottawa might take him so they have a replacement for Karlsson).

Next up is Bouchard, played in London Knights system under the Hunters. I think the Hawks would take him if the forwards available don't turn their crank much.

And you are right, Bovqvist has dropped a bit in the rankings due to the recently discovered concussions.

But do you really want another 5'9" defenceman in Hughes?
- RickJ

Of course the size is the concern but this kids speed, puck skills and mind are so far ahead of any Dman, Dahlin is exempt here, that I think NHL types are ok with that. Merkley and Bovquist are the only ones in the same zip code. I think he dispelled size concerns at the World Championships last winter as he was excellent as an 18 yr old vs men.

Yes, I personally am ok with with this kid at 8 but more importantly the speed/skill, no matter the size, loving Hawks organIzation are ok with Hughes IMO.

IMO one of Wahlstrom and Hughes could/should be there at 8 and if so do you take the more important position in the Dman?

In style I'm seeing Dobson as a comparison to Klingenberg as a rangy skater and Bouchard to Doughty in that IQ is their prevailing trait.

Watch Tallon ship Hoffman to Chicago...

What is happening?
- Justin Lowe

Doug Wilson is looking like a genius

I guess the season ticket holders presale for that game will be till mid of July, so I'll have a look at what is left then...

No, only went to the SCF in 2013 spontaneously and thought the Winter Classic would be a good opportunity for my 2nd trip to Chicago and to show my girlfriend the passion for the Hawks and the city

I've been to an outdoor game of my favourite team here in Germany once. It was fun, but of course not comparable skill level at all Curious btw how Kahun will do in a Hawks sweater... And just saw Ben Smith signed with another German team joining Desi there.
- MDGHawk

I'm a season ticket holder and haven't been contacted about this. .......As far as Kahun if Colliton likes his game so do I. We'll see where he fits.

Watch Tallon ship Hoffman to Chicago...
- resqmed99

for seabrook, hossa, and AA to get bjustad and Hoffman haha.

Today is the 30 teams in one day Journey for Hoffman LOL

So in essence, Doug Wilson:

- Traded Boedker (cleared $4 mil/yr of cap space)
- “meh” prospect
- 6th round pick in 2020
- 7th round pick in 2018

And acquired:
- 2nd round pick in 2019
- 4th round pick in 2018
- 5th round pick in 2018
- “meh” prospect
- 5th round pick in 2020

That is some kind of wizardry. Kudos to him.
- TommyHawk

I think I like Wilson's style of dumping a salary as opposed to StanBows. Stan gives up a 2nd to offload a salary, Wilson acquires one!!

More than one way to skin a cat, for some.

So in essence, Doug Wilson:

- Traded Boedker (cleared $4 mil/yr of cap space)
- “meh” prospect
- 6th round pick in 2020
- 7th round pick in 2018

And acquired:
- 2nd round pick in 2019
- 4th round pick in 2018
- 5th round pick in 2018
- “meh” prospect
- 5th round pick in 2020

That is some kind of wizardry. Kudos to him.
- TommyHawk

I'm a season ticket holder and haven't been contacted about this. .......As far as Kahun if Colliton likes his game so do I. We'll see where he fits.
- Mr Ricochet

Dunno, presale started yesterday on ticketmaster.com saying "season ticket holder presale" and you need to enter a code (that I thought you only got as one in advance).


Yes, it's going to be a big step for him, but we'll see.

Of course the size is the concern but this kids speed, puck skills and mind are so far ahead of any Dman, Dahlin is exempt here, that I think NHL types are ok with that. Merkley and Bovquist are the only ones in the same zip code. I think he dispelled size concerns at the World Championships last winter as he was excellent as an 18 yr old vs men.

Yes, I personally am ok with with this kid at 8 but more importantly the speed/skill, no matter the size, loving Hawks organIzation is ok with Hughes IMO.

IMO one of Wahlstrom and Hughes could be there at 8 and if so do you take the more important position in the Dman?

In style I'm seeing Dobson as a comparison to Klingenberg as a rangy skater and Bouchard to Doughty in that IQ is their prevailing trait.
- Mr Ricochet

Marc Edwards with hockeyprospect.com has Dobson at #5, Hughes at #9, Bouchard #10 and Bovquist #11.

I doubt very much that Hughes drops to #9 - people saw what he did in the World Championships. (And coached by Jeff Blashill) So I doubt Detroit would pass him up.

With Dobson and Hughes having been very impressive late in the season, that's why I'm saying there is a longshot chance that Zadina falls 4 or 5 places.

Marc Edwards with hockeyprospect.com has Dobson at #5, Hughes at #9, Bouchard #10 and Bovquist #11.

I doubt very much that Hughes drops to #9 - people saw what he did in the World Championships. (And coached by Jeff Blashill) So I doubt Detroit would pass him up.

With Dobson and Hughes having been very impressive late in the season, that's why I'm saying there is a longshot chance that Zadina falls 4 or 5 places.
- RickJ

I would love to see Stan move up to select (funky cold) Zadina, he would step right onto the team next season. Failing that Hughes would be a solid selection.

I have no issue with the Hawks trading #8 for immediate help, as long as the guy is young enough to keep around for several years (i.e. Trouba).

Marc Edwards with hockeyprospect.com has Dobson at #5, Hughes at #9, Bouchard #10 and Bovquist #11.

I doubt very much that Hughes drops to #9 - people saw what he did in the World Championships. (And coached by Jeff Blashill) So I doubt Detroit would pass him up.

With Dobson and Hughes having been very impressive late in the season, that's why I'm saying there is a longshot chance that Zadina falls 4 or 5 places.
- RickJ

And Kravstov at 6 and Kotkaniemi at 8. Interesting. No doubt Kravstov is really skilled but don't think I've seen him that high. .......... IMO the only way Zadina falls is if MTL takes Kotkaniemi and OTT takes Tkachuk then you need AZ, DET and VAN to pass. Tough to see with a probable NHL ready guy.

First, it was one blow out game, not a few.

Second, how many times was Hartman used in a situation in a close game this season vs last? How many close games did the Hawks have compared to last season considering the goaltending? Context and situational data is useful for those types of arguments. Shot volume was down in close, but his shot rate was up overall. I'm not surprised though there might be some drop as he was tasked with being a playmaking center last year between two shooters in Sharp-Debrincat.

Third, I showed that he maintained his production with lower quality linemates - unless you think 34 yo Sharp+Debrincat are in the Kane/Hossa category? In fact, if you remove the blow out game you're fixated on, that puts Hartman's production to be more favorable away from Kane than with.

Anyway, more data suggests that Hartman improved in a many areas. Below is a side-by-side of Hartman's 2nd and 1st years. And to me, the eye test backed up these stats.




Though again, none of this really matters because even if Hartman did have a slump, then it's not out of the norm and even star quality players have them in second season (MacKinnon, Larkin). But man, if that's all it takes to get traded, better hope Debrincat doesn't have a down year next season least he be on another team by after the TDL.

Edit to add: Again, I'm not even arguing the value of the trade anymore - just that it is not unreasonable that some might have preferred Hartman, who had decent usefulness. That's it.
- L_B_R

Actually no, it wasn't one game. There were many blowouts both ways last season and you need only look as far as game #2 to see the second.

The Hawks in general played less with the score close, as I had said, but still adjusted for that his effectiveness was significantly down. Hartman got away from a lot of what made him effective in his first season and the data does back that up. He didn't do the things that got him the opportunity to play higher in the lineup.

Those 19 points he got in the 55 games following those two blowouts to start the year don't impress me. 9th best on the team doesn't stand out...old man Sharp scored nearly as many in fewer games over that span.

He didn't do much in close games to be a factor, not like he showed in that rookie season where his presence was better. He took some dumb penalties at bad times. I believe he was traded for a reason and a part of it was his disappointing season IMO.

If it's truly firesale time in Ottawa, what about making a play for Duchene or Zack Smith? Both could help the Hawks down the middle.

While I'm sure the price on Duchene would be high (and you'd have to figure out an extension with him as he's UFA after the year), weren't there rumblings last year the Hawks were interested in him?

So in essence, Doug Wilson:

- Traded Boedker (cleared $4 mil/yr of cap space)
- “meh” prospect
- 6th round pick in 2020
- 7th round pick in 2018

And acquired:
- 2nd round pick in 2019
- 4th round pick in 2018
- 5th round pick in 2018
- “meh” prospect
- 5th round pick in 2020

That is some kind of wizardry. Kudos to him.
- TommyHawk

Damn.

If it's truly firesale time in Ottawa, what about making a play for Duchene or Zack Smith? Both could help the Hawks down the middle.

While I'm sure the price on Duchene would be high (and you'd have to figure out an extension with him as he's UFA after the year), weren't there rumblings last year the Hawks were interested in him?
- Hawksfan37

Anisimov and a 3rd for Pageau!

Dunno, presale started yesterday on ticketmaster.com saying "season ticket holder presale" and you need to enter a code (that I thought you only got as one in advance).


Yes, it's going to be a big step for him, but we'll see.
- MDGHawk

Yep, just got the email. Bastard Hawks, shovel face with Rocky's ok, outsourced the thing so the idiots who kept their season tix can be gouged by Ticketmaster.

If I were to call my ticket rep right now I would get a machine and "they" will get back to me when it's "convenient" for "them". They did this when I called to renew!!!! When they are losing season ticket holders!! They don't give a $#@* and if they do are too dumb to realize the club sucks and they are no longer a ticket people want.

I like it just flip duch and smaltz plus Zadina would be awesome or the big finn

Still think hawks need to go with a forward mainly a center at 8.
- Scott1977

Yeah, you could flip flop Duchene and Schmaltz. I had Schmaltz with Kane and Maroon and Duchene with DeBrincat and Sikura to distribute offense and make 3 solid lines.

What I don't like is I would like a 3C who is hard to be play against and Duchene, while great on faceoffs and has top shelf offense, isn't exactly a checking center. Toews would be so in that regard. Nash at 4C helps but would be even better to have 2 new centers who have grit and strong defensive acumen to complement Toews and Schmaltz.

O'Reilly would check off that box so he's worth considering instead of Duchene.

Of Dobson, Bouchard, Hughes and Bovquist what are you hearing in the great country of Canada, around town and the rinks, as far as ranking and biggest potential for a bust?

As far as forwards I think the best chance they have of a player being there in the 8 slot is Wahlstrom. Don't think Zadina or Tkachuk makes it but maybe just maybe Hughes falls to them and if so IMO they'll take him.
- Mr Ricochet

I changed my mock draft board today again, feeling that after Dahlin, Ottawa Vancouver and even Arizona, may be comfortable taking the defenders...every team thinks, well, we won't be picking so close to the top again, and there may not be a class so thick so this is the opportunity...."

My board below is changed to cause fan interest, and I like tossing bones (like I did to Blackhawks and Edmonton), but unless the three aforementioned above the hawks teams (and Wings going hometown with Hughes before the Canucks select (and those goofy Bouchard & Dobson go earlier, which I think is a stretch for me),

AT VERY LEAST,

three of the guys in slots 4 - 10 are there.

No one who loves the hawks should think anything but highly if they are able to select Quinn Hughes.

No one who loves the hawks should think anything but highly if they are able to select any of the three forwards, and they are all different
Filip Zadina is simply so smart active in three zones, creative active and is deadly shooter, and all the perimeter player horsefeathers is just that. he is fearless, goes gets the pucks in the battle zones and on the wall, he plays hungry to score. He backs the defenders into the zone carries on the entires, etc.

Oliver Wahlstrom has incredible numbers and also can secure zone entires and the guy has so much accuracy and snap behind his Patrick-Sharp-like quickness. He does make contact, and fight for pucks, but similar to my criticism of Nick Schmaltz in his draft year, he looks for line-mates to unearth and get him many of his chances. Don't get me wrong: he is a threat to score after bursting through, b/c he has terrific straight away speed, just don't think you are getting a Schmaltz type agile East-West attacker.

Brady Tkachuk is the dream...I have extensive detailed why I love him, defended his upside, and he is the dream drop, because as you will start reading no scouts see any of the misgivings people are attempting to attach to him here.

By the way if you go to DraftSite, I have a whole bunch of other stuff written on all these guys and most of the entire seven rounds and anybody else you like I don't have listed in my top seven rounds...search their names and see.

one last thing: I think Wahlstom decided to uncommit from Boston College or at least leave it open? (I may be incorrect) If so that tells me he is trying to make himself more attractive to draft and develop as a soon to play NHLer.

1 Buffalo logo Buffalo Rasmus Dahlin D (SHL) 6' 2.75" 185
2 Carolina logo Carolina Andrei Svechnikov RW(OHL) 6' 2" 192
3 Montreal logo Montreal Jesperi Kotkaniemi C (SM-liiga)6' 2 181
4 Ottawa logo Ottawa Evan Bouchard D (OHL) 6' 2" 196
5 Arizona logo Arizona Noah Dobson D (QMJHL) 6' 3" 177
6 Detroit logo Detroit Filip Zadina RW (QMJHL) 6' 0" 197
7 Vancouver Vancouver Quinton Hughes D Michigan 5' 10" 176
8 Chicago logo Chicago Brady Tkachuk LW Boston U 6' 3" 192
9 NY Rangers NYRangers Adam Boqvist D Bryn(SHL)1.5" 165
10 Edmonton Edmonton Oliver Wahlstrom LW USNTDP (USHL) 6' 1"