Just throwing this out there:

DCAT 27TH AND 3RD FORSLING OR MITCHELL FOR TROUBA AND LOWERY OR HANAFIN ROY/ MCGINN OR SAME TRADE BUT FOR ROR AND 2ND OR PROSPECT
- Scott1977

With StanBow in fear of his job something like this might happen, a Dcat/Schmaltz and a pick/prospect for a front line difference maker plus.

IMO bad yr for a fan with a GM fearing for his job. Enough front line talent and depth in this draft to find two 10 yr core players if you choose wisely and you're willing to develop them patiently.

With StanBow in fear of his job something like this might happen, a Dcat/Schmaltz and a pick/prospect for a front line difference maker plus.

IMO bad yr for a fan with a GM fearing for his job. Enough front line talent and depth in this draft to find two 10 yr core players if you choose wisely and you're willing to develop them patiently.
- Mr Ricochet

Which is why he should’ve been fired and a new GM brought in to have a multi year plan without bias or immediate pressure. Time will tell if Rocky made the right call....

Yeah, Zadina is more of sniper with playmaking ability. The fact that he is a pure goal scorer is great but the playmaking is what makes him more interesting to me because that would be ideal for Saad-Toews. Saad, for example, was one of the best at shooting from the slot this past season in the league but wasn't scoring much - could a better setup player help? If so, you'd have a good balance of shot volume, playmaking, and sniper between Saad-Toews-Zadina.

I still don't think Zadina falls anywhere close to the Hawks' pick, though.
- L_B_R

What do you see Toews as on this line? Shot volume, sniper or playmaker?

No smoke...there are scouts that feel the upside is beyond the second line tag, and he has all these Toews-like qualities.

He controls play.

waits waits waits....make the play.

Let's hope someone likes him before slot 8, it helps!
- wiz1901

Well if Hayton is a Toews of 5 yrs ago player why not go Hayton with the 8th? You still think Kotkaniemi will be a better pro than Hayton as a centerman?

Who is it you hope falls to the Hawks at 8?

Here is the thing: Seabrook played with an injury that draft season
and still had these stats
2002-03 Lethbridge Hurricanes WHL 69 9 33 42 113 -14

At the draft, Pierre mcQuire and I were having conversation and he said Seabrook feet push and balance was world class, but he was playing that season under the duress of an injury, and many of his outings did nothing to his light his skills as a defender.
This isn't some made up this by me...I be darned I really can't remember if it was ankle or what the issue was but that's what got him down to #14 and not in the conversation son the guys above Dion Phaneuf Braydon Coburn or Ryan Suter...if that helps what you are trying to do
- wiz1901

The background on Seabs in his draft yr helps sure, but I was asking does a Bouchard, and to a lesser extent Dobson (more skilled hands, better skater), show similarities in their draft yr? ......... If not do you have similar comparisons of both players in their draft yrs.

I know that's not easy off the top of your head but I'm curious to see what a projection may look like.

Which is why he should’ve been fired and a new GM brought in to have a multi year plan without bias or immediate pressure. Time will tell if Rocky made the right call....
- EnzoD

Or a prez that is a hockey ops guy and not a snake oil salesman that can oversee StanBow and Q to be sure they stick with an agreed upon organIzational plan.

I've been the wet diaper for the last yr saying who plays 1RW, 2C or 4D just does not matter because the GM and coach for whatever reason have shown NUMEROUS times they can not work together and there is nobody to oversee that.

The organIzational structure's shortcomings were ok as long as there was overwhelming talent to overcome it. That overwhelming talent has been in the rear view mirror for a few yrs now and we see the results.

Guess the bright side is if there is another train wreck yr the club will be drafting top 10 again next yr and we get a new GM and or coach if Rocky is a man of his word.

Any good executive who is in charge of personnel needs to have back up plans and be able to read likely scenarios as they begin to unfold, or could reasonably expect to unfold soon.

So without meaning to sound demeaning, just wondering what Bowman learned from his Notre Dame degree. Was he partially to blame for the so called Talking contract screw up. I forget exactly what someone posted on the his site about that

The facts were and continue to be that Seabrook has lost some skating ability; he is slower this last season it really stood out. I understand he appeared worse due to Z3 commentary upon babysitting role; I am not knicking Seabrook due to coaching philosophy, just his actual slowing down. It is just his own capacity due to wear and tear and age. It can be different fir each player.

You can factor in Keith not having the proper defense partner so that he can play effectively his rover style. Let's be honest here, however: Keith has been able to rise to a very high level and make key plays. He can lay out a bone jarring hit but can also be crushed and dragged along - example see Coyle history vs Minnesota. It is probably fair to say Keith has lost a bit of his skating, but I am not sure if any of that is due to less than total full recovery from that knee injury.

Do Stan couldn't see those developments on the horizon. He couldn't plan for it to likely occur?

His plan appeared to be to promote dmen from AHL and Orsterle gets an opportunity if no one grabs hold of each defense spot 1-6. Bowman knows that he can trade some of his AHL promoted players as well as European signs but they have to receive playing time in order for other GM evaluation

What a plan. But, ok, you have an excess of dmen. You discover also that Murphy has issues transitioning to playing correct defense.

He was mired in Arizona with poor support. But his support from Q and Samuelson was not proper. He needed to develop into a small lid dman, a leader. He may yet be acceptable as muscle on a third pair, although his proper leverage or ability to check (ok, whatever that break down was where he falls short - it was posted on this site) PLUS his skating means he is not going to rise above third pair level. If he is used in a higher pairing, it means we have big headaches on defense

That my friends is where we sit. Big problems on defense Even if the incumbent set plays well, they are not good enough. They are not what is needed to get to the playoffs. Not even better coaching and you get by with these guys. I.see more potential, a higher ceiling with some of our prospects than Oesterle and Gustufsson. Ruuta needs the right partner, then maybe he could be servicable. He has ability and experience albeit only one year NHL.

Forsling just needs to play regularly. Probably another AHL season and coached right at NHL. It is a mistake to give him away, Stan, because you left the defense in shambles. Forsling has weaknesses but he has strength too. He is the best we have at quick decision playing at speed. He needs other parts if his game to progress

The thing that bothers me, is how many non physical dmen can you keep?

Now watch Stan not get the two most elite skill first round because Stan allowed the defense to fall apart. He will say he was forced to use a draft pick to improve his current next season NHL defense. Which is an excuse for fouling up - his fouling up.

It is Q who agitates me more than Bowman.

I wish that Q would depart. He had poor coaching despite his accomplishments.
I won't get into that, other than to remind just one aspect if poor coaching is inability to get players to play properly on pp. Not given ideal players, then a good coach adapts, makes it work

What do you see Toews as on this line? Shot volume, sniper or playmaker?
- Mr Ricochet

Toews has been heavily relied on to be a playmaker on his line but he was more of a mix before. Look at his overlap with Hossa as a comparison (below) - Toews is green, Hossa is orange.



Part of the problem for Toews the last few seasons has been an imbalance on his line imo.

For example, Toews was with two shot volume shooters in Saad-Panik and neither really touch into playmaking (Saad a bit but not enough), so Toews was the only one really feeding the pucks to others and wasn't receiving much in return. When with Hossa, he could help add some playmaking in there, even if shot volume was his most consistent trait, so it allowed someone else to feed Toews the puck on occasion. This is why Sharp-Toews-Kane or Schmaltz-Toews-Panik worked - it was a good combo of two playmakers with at least one shot volume / sniper type. A lot of the other guys they tried there - Garbutt, Shaw, Tikhnov, Duclair, etc - are all either shooters or dependents.

A line doesn't have to be this combo to work obviously, but it seems to the combo that works best for Toews. Maybe Toews should be more flexible / adaptable at his cap hit, but the fact is, as long as he is on the team, we should hope to get the best out of him so that is why I'd love to see a playmaker or playmaker-shooter combo on the line if Saad-Toews stay together.

Is that player on the roster already? Idk. I think Hinostroza worked there decently the like 7 games he got because he's is a playmaker-shooter - he's just not necessarily a top 6 quality one so idk about him being a long term solution. Debrincat can make plays but he's mostly a shooter. Could Sikura be that guy? I don't know enough about him to evaluate his role. Kane is an obvious answer but having him on another line is beneficial to balancing the roster.

It'll be interesting to see how it all comes together. And also all this talk just makes me really miss Hossa.

Well if Hayton is a Toews of 5 yrs ago player why not go Hayton with the 8th? You still think Kotkaniemi will be a better pro than Hayton as a centerman?
Yeah I do think Kotkaniemi has really good feet and has more fluidity to his motion.

Hayton has upside and isn't finishing developing or reaching his high point. The draft is much like a pack mentality...after the scouts have ingrained opinions on each other that sometimes may not be as reliable as taking a position and sticking with it.

Who is it you hope falls to the Hawks at 8?
- Mr Ricochet

I want Jesperi Kotkaniemi, or Brady Thachuk or Quinn Hughes to Oliver Wahlstrom in that order.

[quote=Mr Ricochet]The question to Wiz, or anyone who remembers Seabs' draft yr and follows jrs, was what was Seabs' strengths and weaknesses coming into the draft and are Bouchard's or even Dobson's equivalent for comparisons/projections sake. If you find those comparisons unacceptable, all right shots, all Major Junior players, all 6ft+, none finesse players, all known to be responsible in their own zone, I'd be happy to look at who you find as an acceptable comparison should you choose to offer one/some.
His strength was his feet, his PP and OK ability and that he used his body in his to make turnovers, force players where they didn't want to be and was good in holding position in his end.
Ok, Dobson has significant upside to be Seabrook plus but that is going to be an investment of time and body build...Seabs was big to begin with, thicker at draft day.
Evan Bouchard is an uncanny shooter, passes the puck extremely well, and maybe more importantly has the high end hockey sense that Seabrook also has. Bouchard CAN play nasty, but it doesn't last where Seabrook seems always willing to body players for advantage.

I guess my hesitancy with Bouchard is I haven't seen him against the other kids in the class in World competitions.

Please I am not looking to poison the kid with negativity.

I have said all along that at #8 the Hawks have a good player coming there way, and I am thrilled they will and I actually trust Mark Kelley, and he will get last say this time, so he know more than me, his staff knows more, and I trust they will not reach, and I am not worrying.

There are two Canadian teams who may select Evan Bouchard contrary to my opinions - same with Dobson - this is also about perception new beginnings and long term achievement after the players are done playing against kids....

I want Jesperi Kotkaniemi, or Brady Thachuk or Quinn Hughes to Oliver Wahlstrom in that order.
- wiz1901

At #27?

I want Jesperi Kotkaniemi, or Brady Thachuk or Quinn Hughes to Oliver Wahlstrom in that order.
- wiz1901

Wiz at 27 who would you like give us a center wing and d man in that order?

Montréal will take Kotkamiemi at 3 searching for that elusive 1C, book it!
- EnzoD

Yep

*NEW BLOG UP* - http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=93420

It's a fun one... should spark a lot of solid conversation... enjoy.

Toews has been heavily relied on to be a playmaker on his line but he was more of a mix before. Look at his overlap with Hossa as a comparison (below) - Toews is green, Hossa is orange.



Part of the problem for Toews the last few seasons has been an imbalance on his line imo.

For example, Toews was with two shot volume shooters in Saad-Panik and neither really touch into playmaking (Saad a bit but not enough), so Toews was the only one really feeding the pucks to others and wasn't receiving much in return. When with Hossa, he could help add some playmaking in there, even if shot volume was his most consistent trait, so it allowed someone else to feed Toews the puck on occasion. This is why Sharp-Toews-Kane or Schmaltz-Toews-Panik worked - it was a good combo of two playmakers with at least one shot volume / sniper type. A lot of the other guys they tried there - Garbutt, Shaw, Tikhnov, Duclair, etc - are all either shooters or dependents.

A line doesn't have to be this combo to work obviously, but it seems to the combo that works best for Toews. Maybe Toews should be more flexible / adaptable at his cap hit, but the fact is, as long as he is on the team, we should hope to get the best out of him so that is why I'd love to see a playmaker or playmaker-shooter combo on the line if Saad-Toews stay together.

Is that player on the roster already? Idk. I think Hinostroza worked there decently the like 7 games he got because he's is a playmaker-shooter - he's just not necessarily a top 6 quality one so idk about him being a long term solution. Debrincat can make plays but he's mostly a shooter. Could Sikura be that guy? I don't know enough about him to evaluate his role. Kane is an obvious answer but having him on another line is beneficial to balancing the roster.

It'll be interesting to see how it all comes together. And also all this talk just makes me really miss Hossa.
- L_B_R

Obviously a stretch considering he has very little NHL experience, but Ejdsell is that type of player. Really good shot, and can make plays at speed (although his speed isn’t great at the moment). He started to excel when he was put on wing instead of center.