Seeing that both will be back yea. Wrong move but understand why so in my opinion and some might disagree but oh well
2 nhl d man
Top 6 forward lw or rw
Size and grit in the forwards and defense
3rd line shutdown center that can win faceoffs at 50% or better
Crawford healthyv100% veteran backup
Saad towes seabrook kieth need comeback years in hugh way
Puckmoving d man that can quarterback a pp
Now some these needs might already be in house and some need to come from free agents signings and smart creative trades.
- Scott1977

Nope they need a new coach .One who will allow defenseman punish players in front of the net .Stay with lines for more then a heartbeat . Coach young players ,not just sit them or put them in the press box .And find a PP scheme that works .(Oates ) I hope he is on a very short lease ,so the players don't spend another year trying to show management he needs to go

still so enjoying last nights ending...i want to see the hawks put chelsea dagger through the blues season and have #91 break a bagful of sticks..

nhl hockey is one helluva of crazy game...

first time all year the blues lose after leading after 2 now 30-1-2
hawks had not won after giving up first goal in 3 months..
thats the first game they won in regulation trailing by 2 going into the third...
and of all players its duncan keith with a one time blast ON NET and in...

maybe just maybe they can win 2 in a row in reg since mid december

Nope they need a new coach .One who will allow defenseman punish players in front of the net .Stay with lines for more then a heartbeat . Coach young players ,not just sit them or put them in the press box .And find a PP scheme that works .(Oates ) I hope he is on a very short lease ,so the players don't spend another year trying to show management he needs to go
- oldduffman

Cannot agree more with you and your points personally both should have been fired but with looming cba conflict after next season and both having to pay both probably had to with the decision to keep both don't how they get better next season compare to this one. Both should be on notice that if they get off to bad start and whatever moves are made in offseason do not work again then both should let go.

This is the guy I keep coming back to. Him and Jet Woo, the right handed D man that most places I've read say he hits like a truck and has a good old school D mentality.
- BlazinMike

Any chance Woo falls to the 'Hawks second 1st round pick?

Ahhh yes bring back the mastermind behind the construction of the Last place Hawks' roster! The guy who traded away a Hart Trophy candidate in Panarin for a 3rd line producer in Saad. The guy who gave away Leddy, Danault, Johns/Sharp, Teravainen and the list goes on back to 2010 with virtually no assets coming back in the Buff, Ladd, Campbell trades either. The guy who gave up two 2nd round picks for 40yr old blood clot Kimmo Timmonen, signed David Rundblad for 2 years, and didn't add to the defense group in 2016 which was that team's fatal flaw. This is the same GM that hasn't drafted a good NHL Dmen in 10 years. What could go wrong?

I hope you all are ready for another year of poop hockey in Chicago! Oh ya, I guess I forgot that 2,7,19+ 50 are gunna find the fountain of youth this summer and Euro League quality defenders in Gustafson, Rutta, and Oesterle are going to magically gain the ability to defend effectively in the NHL at age 27. Status quo for this organization after the last 3 years is ludicrous. Glad I don't have season tickets.
- EnzoD[/img]

You do know Leddy leads the NHL with a whopping -42 +/- by 25% over the next worst player. I'd say Stanbo got rid of train wreck.

Stated another way what is a -42 player worth in the trade market?

Any chance Woo falls to the 'Hawks second 1st round pick?
- 35Tony0

Entirely possible, I've seen him ranked anywhere from a late 1st rounder to an early 2nd round pick.

Nope they need a new coach .One who will allow defenseman punish players in front of the net .Stay with lines for more then a heartbeat . Coach young players ,not just sit them or put them in the press box .And find a PP scheme that works .(Oates ) I hope he is on a very short lease ,so the players don't spend another year trying to show management he needs to go
- oldduffman

I'm not really for or against the decision at this point (as I think with free agency and the cap, every season is it's own entity). That said, how can you justify the comment about young players? Schmaltz, ADB, Forsling, Hinostroza (for most of the year) all have been playing all year, or a large portion of it. They've grown their games and improved as the year has gone on. Duclair was playing virtually every game.

I don't understand this specific criticism of Q.

Ahhh yes bring back the mastermind behind the construction of the Last place Hawks' roster! The guy who traded away a Hart Trophy candidate in Panarin for a 3rd line producer in Saad. The guy who gave away Leddy, Danault, Johns/Sharp, Teravainen and the list goes on back to 2010 with virtually no assets coming back in the Buff, Ladd, Campbell trades either. The guy who gave up two 2nd round picks for 40yr old blood clot Kimmo Timmonen, signed David Rundblad for 2 years, and didn't add to the defense group in 2016 which was that team's fatal flaw. This is the same GM that hasn't drafted a good NHL Dmen in 10 years. What could go wrong?

I hope you all are ready for another year of poop hockey in Chicago! Oh ya, I guess I forgot that 2,7,19+ 50 are gunna find the fountain of youth this summer and Euro League quality defenders in Gustafson, Rutta, and Oesterle are going to magically gain the ability to defend effectively in the NHL at age 27. Status quo for this organization after the last 3 years is ludicrous. Glad I don't have season tickets.
- EnzoD[/img]

You do know Leddy leads the NHL with a whopping -42 +/- by 25% over the next worst player. I'd say Stanbo got rid of train wreck.

Stated another way what is a -42 player worth in the trade market?
- riozzo

And yet he plays 25minutes a night in all situations, including PP1. +/- is a team stat, and while far from a true #1 Dman (like he's been used ever since going to NYI), he is a very useful and talented NHLer. Ville Pokka still with 0 NHL games played in his career. The point is that Stan Bowman has gutted the talent of this team over the last 4 years, while not adequately replenishing the talent via good drafting, and here the team sits LAST by a country mile in the Central Division. Most jobs have performance reviews/metrics/quotas. The Hawks supposedly have "One Goal" to be a Cup Contender every year. Where is the accountability for the mess Bowman has created??

And yet he plays 25minutes a night in all situations, including PP1. +/- is a team stat, and while far from a true #1 Dman (like he's been used ever since going to NYI), he is a very useful and talented NHLer. Ville Pokka still with 0 NHL games played in his career. The point is that Stan Bowman has gutted the talent of this team over the last 4 years, while not adequately replenishing the talent via good drafting, and here the team sits LAST by a country mile in the Central Division. Most jobs have performance reviews/metrics/quotas. The Hawks supposedly have "One Goal" to be a Cup Contender every year. Where is the accountability for the mess Bowman has created??
- EnzoD

I wonder how much of this epic failure falls on McD and the knee-jerk reaction to last year's first round exit. Panarin and Hammer were traded because of this. The utter failure this year were largely due to these trades coupled with Hossa's retirement/injury and the injury to Crow.

Playing devils advocate, he was stuck in a position of weakness ala the Cap where all GM's knew the Hawks' were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Bowman did get us ADB for Shaw, whom he drafted along with Saad. He also got us Cup-winning contributors Richards, Vermette, Versteeg, Frolik, Oduya and Darling. Panarin was acquired because of him as well. And Daley if not for Q's disfavor of him would have made a solid top 4 during our run. The loss to the Blues in 2015-2016 was by 1 goal in a game 7. If the Hawks won that one, they had the talent to make a run.

He did inherit Kane, Toews, Hossa, Campbell, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Ladd, Bickell, Buff, Bolland and Brower though.

You do know Leddy leads the NHL with a whopping -42 +/- by 25% over the next worst player. I'd say Stanbo got rid of train wreck.

Stated another way what is a -42 player worth in the trade market?
- riozzo

Lol. On the team with the worst goaltending tandem in the NHL.

40 point defender consistently that can move the puck with his feet or make a good first pass. Also defends well despite the narrative that buzzed around here for a few years.

That team has been bad and run down by injuries and had horrific goaltending. Nick Leddy dragging Seabrooks carcass around would look markedly better than Keith has this year.

Losing that player hurt.

And yet he plays 25minutes a night in all situations, including PP1. +/- is a team stat, and while far from a true #1 Dman (like he's been used ever since going to NYI), he is a very useful and talented NHLer. Ville Pokka still with 0 NHL games played in his career. The point is that Stan Bowman has gutted the talent of this team over the last 4 years, while not adequately replenishing the talent via good drafting, and here the team sits LAST by a country mile in the Central Division. Most jobs have performance reviews/metrics/quotas. The Hawks supposedly have "One Goal" to be a Cup Contender every year. Where is the accountability for the mess Bowman has created??
- EnzoD

Totally agree Enzo, the guy has lost many trades over the last 8 seasons. Great GMs like Yzerman have consistently pulled rabbits ouf of a hat when crunch time hits. Stan fumbles in crunch time: 2010 selloff, Bickell contract, Saad fiasco, Daley fiasco,

The few things I'll give him credit for: Oduya trade, Versteeg trade, Richards signing, using Kane's LTIR space for Vermette.

Having plenty of decent picks over the last 8 years, and we have what to show for it? Debcrincat, Saad, Schmaltz, and nobody. Everyone else has busted or been traded: Hartman, Teravainen, Fournier, McNeil, Danault, Hayes, Rensfeld, Clendening, Knott.
He let Rockford rot away for way too long before firing Dent last offseason.

He has gotten discounts only out of aging vets on their last years: Campbell, Richards, Sharp.

EVERYONE else he's overpaid: Toews, Bickell, Crawford the first two years, Kruger, Seabrook, Ruuta, Gustafsson, Anisimov, Panik, and on and on.

He loses trades, loses signings, absolutely loses drafts. Yes we've won three cups, and two of them were because of things he's done. Chiarelli won a cup in Boston, and now he's the worst GM in the league besides maybe Garth Snow. The game has passed up some of these guys, time to let a fresh mind take over.

I'll go to my grave thinking the loss of Hossa, then Crow were, by far, the biggest factors in this year's record.
And completely out of the control of the 'Hawk brass.

I'll go to my grave thinking the loss of Hossa, then Crow were, by far, the biggest factors in this year's record.
And completely out of the control of the 'Hawk brass.
- 35Tony0

Exactly.

I wonder how much of this epic failure falls on McD and the knee-jerk reaction to last year's first round exit. Panarin and Hammer were traded because of this. The utter failure this year were largely due to these trades coupled with Hossa's retirement/injury and the injury to Crow.

Playing devils advocate, he was stuck in a position of weakness ala the Cap where all GM's knew the Hawks' were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Bowman did get us ADB for Shaw, whom he drafted along with Saad. He also got us Cup-winning contributors Richards, Vermette, Versteeg, Frolik, Oduya and Darling. Panarin was acquired because of him as well. And Daley if not for Q's disfavor of him would have made a solid top 4 during our run. The loss to the Blues in 2015-2016 was by 1 goal in a game 7. If the Hawks won that one, they had the talent to make a run.

He did inherit Kane, Toews, Hossa, Campbell, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Ladd, Bickell, Buff, Bolland and Brower though.
- Popsghostly

I think you are right on with why Panarin and Hammer were traded. IMO Bowman didn't get us those other guys as much as the scouting dept. did. God only knows how many good deals he past up.

So what I was hearing was wrong... and happy to admit it: https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1515164


... well at least with Q.

Stan! Put together a better team and let Joel coach a competent team. You need: 2x Dmen (maybe both shut down guys), a C that can win some faceoffs and some grit.


What is everyone's thoughts on this?
- Justin Lowe

I'm really happy about Q is coming back, it is what I've wanted all along. He has some term left on his contract and you don't want the Blues to snatch him up. He was not given a good roster and he played along when the organization decided to use this as developmental year for the youngsters. And, in hindsight, he was right about the trades that upset him on the first day of the draft.

Definitely need to add a couple D, a C, and maybe a top 6 winger and a bottom 6 winger. Everyone needs to play better next year. If that happens, they'll be back in the playoffs. Maybe good enough to add a guy or two at the TDL and make another run.

If next year ends up like this year, there will be a different outcome for Q and StanBo, and that's totally understandable.

I wonder how much of this epic failure falls on McD and the knee-jerk reaction to last year's first round exit. Panarin and Hammer were traded because of this. The utter failure this year were largely due to these trades coupled with Hossa's retirement/injury and the injury to Crow.

Playing devils advocate, he was stuck in a position of weakness ala the Cap where all GM's knew the Hawks' were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Bowman did get us ADB for Shaw, whom he drafted along with Saad. He also got us Cup-winning contributors Richards, Vermette, Versteeg, Frolik, Oduya and Darling. Panarin was acquired because of him as well. And Daley if not for Q's disfavor of him would have made a solid top 4 during our run. The loss to the Blues in 2015-2016 was by 1 goal in a game 7. If the Hawks won that one, they had the talent to make a run.

He did inherit Kane, Toews, Hossa, Campbell, Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Ladd, Bickell, Buff, Bolland and Brower though.
- Popsghostly

They could have taken a more conservative approach and kept more players around, but they likely would have been a team getting bounced in round 1 again. I think this season is very much a transition as they team got a lot younger, but probably the team hoped they'd still be in the playoff picture, but so many things went wrong.

I wouldn't really say this season is the big failure, but to me the epic failure was last year when they hit the playoffs and got bounced in 4 games. They made big changes to embrace the rebuild and the result is not making the playoffs this season, but they got some pretty good results from the young guys. I think they are setting up the team to bounce back in the next season or two. They've got guys growing into new roles, playing special teams and learning the NHL game still. They will learn to take more and more big minutes.

I think you are right on with why Panarin and Hammer were traded. IMO Bowman didn't get us those other guys as much as the scouting dept. did. God only knows how many good deals he past up.
- Savoy

I believe Bowman was told to shake this team up and no genius himself McD left the details to complete fool Bowman so Panarin and Hammer were traded simply because it was easy to do (no NTC in either case) especially if he didn't have to be concerned about the return he was going to get much to the both short and long term detriment of the team and the fanbase and hockey in general. Otherwise those trades as well as some other moves made no sense at all.

And yet he plays 25minutes a night in all situations, including PP1. +/- is a team stat, and while far from a true #1 Dman (like he's been used ever since going to NYI), he is a very useful and talented NHLer. Ville Pokka still with 0 NHL games played in his career. The point is that Stan Bowman has gutted the talent of this team over the last 4 years, while not adequately replenishing the talent via good drafting, and here the team sits LAST by a country mile in the Central Division. Most jobs have performance reviews/metrics/quotas. The Hawks supposedly have "One Goal" to be a Cup Contender every year. Where is the accountability for the mess Bowman has created??
- EnzoD

To have 40 points and be a -41 even if is a team number - is just plain bad. And no different with Keith being a -24 - just bad.

I believe Bowman was told to shake this team up and no genius himself McD left the details to complete fool Bowman so Panarin and Hammer were traded simply because it was easy to do (no NTC in either case) especially if he didn't have to be concerned about the return he was going to get much to the both short and long term detriment of the team and the fanbase and hockey in general. Otherwise those trades as well as some other moves made no sense at all.
- Savoy

Please explain how you know that everything was up to Bowman? Are you in the office next to his listening to the conversations with his boss?

Hind sight is always 20-20 but a lot of the trades made a lot of sense at the time even if they haven't panned out as well as we'd hoped. It wasn't like the Hawks had a ton of options to change up the roster in a meaningful way.

McD interviewed re: Bowman and Q decision in the first part of this podcast. Also discusses who will be accountable for fixing what.

https://chicago.suntimes....dcast-lazerus-myers-2018/

To have 40 points and be a -41 even if is a team number - is just plain bad. And no different with Keith being a -24 - just bad.
- riozzo

Plus/Minus is a stat that some people dismiss much too quickly. It is a team influenced stat but over the long term, it paints a picture of what is happening when you are on the ice. When you are far and away worse than everyone on your team in that stat and at the bottom of the entire league...it tells you something. Some of it is outside your control but not all of it.

If they don't get rid of Bowman now you may be watching ABD on some other team.
- Savoy

ADB is one of Bowman's success stories. No way Bowman would trade him.

Please explain how you know that everything was up to Bowman? Are you in the office next to his listening to the conversations with his boss?

Hind sight is always 20-20 but a lot of the trades made a lot of sense at the time even if they haven't panned out as well as we'd hoped. It wasn't like the Hawks had a ton of options to change up the roster in a meaningful way.
- breadbag

Hind Sight? Even blind people saw what this really was as it happened. Don't be fooled by the fake posters spewing the company excuses.
These trades never made any sense. When is the last time somebody traded a budding superstar in only his second year for an average wing and a 3rd string goalie? When is the last time somebody traded a top three rated in the league shutdown defenceman for a below average defenceman who couldn't even stick with a last place team and a forward who was rated below the top 15 prospects of that team? And don't give me the silly propaganda that you expected more out of Saad. On his best day minus 8 this year 6mm dollar Saad is half the player Panarin is. There is no comparison just ask Kane who supplied the defense on his line last year. It certainly wasn't minus 19 this year Kane but indeed it was plus 21 this year Panarin. Second worst trade in team history.

Hind Sight? Even blind people saw what this really was as it happened. Don't be fooled by the fake posters spewing the company excuses.
These trades never made any sense. When is the last time somebody traded a budding superstar in only his second year for an average wing and a 3rd string goalie? When is the last time somebody traded a top three rated in the league shutdown defenceman for a below average defenceman who couldn't even stick with a last place team and a forward who was rated below the top 15 prospects of that team? And don't give me the silly propaganda that you expected more out of Saad. On his best day minus 8 this year 6mm dollar Saad is half the player Panarin is. There is no comparison just ask Kane who supplied the defense on his line last year. It certainly wasn't minus 19 this year Kane but indeed it was plus 21 this year Panarin. Second worst trade in team history.
- Savoy

Oh yes Jhammer been great in and out of the line up with injuries . Jhammer was a warrior for the HAWKS but was running on fumes two years ago ,and Stan showed great judgment by moving him before it was to late .Maybe if Q had not had a hissy fit over the deal then taken it out on a strong young player (Murphy) that trade would look even better . Again on Panarin good riddance .Saad will be okay and I would take him in the playoffs any day over Panaran ,Saad has proved he can perform in the playoffs unlike poor tired Panarin