Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Cup Droughts, Phantoms, Alumni

Morning Bill,

I would much rather be a Flyers fan and see brushes with possible success than say Washington or St Louis.

But, I want to see a Cup in my lifetime.

Bill,

Since AZ missed on one of the top 2 do you think they would be more inclined to trade it since they could get multiple assets to help rebuild?

Bill,

Since AZ missed on one of the top 2 do you think they would be more inclined to trade it since they could get multiple assets to help rebuild?
- J35Bacher

Quite possibly.

Morning Bill,

I would much rather be a Flyers fan and see brushes with possible success than say Washington or St Louis.

But, I want to see a Cup in my lifetime.
- PhiFaninEdm

Absolutely. But it takes a lot of good luck as well as a lot of good design to get it. That's why a Cup winning season should be treasured -- or even a trip to the Finals -- because you never know when it might be a long time until it comes again, even if the team seems poised (on paper) to contend for years to come.

Along the way over the years, the Caps, Blues and Sharks are among the franchises that had numerous teams that were "good enough" to win the Cup if things broke the right way for them in the playoffs -- good health, a few favorable matchups, a key game here or there that went the other way.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Cup Droughts, Phantoms, Alumni
- bmeltzer

Fine job as always Sir!!

I think what frustrates the fans is the following:

From 1972 to 1989
-17 straight playoff appearances
-10 trips to the Cup semifinals/conference finals
-6 appearances in the Cup finals
-2 Stanley Cup championships
-Hall of Fame players in the prime of their careers: Parent, Clarke, Barber & Howe

However since 1989
-25 total seasons, missed the playoffs in 8 of them
-in the other 17 years, out in the first round 7 times
-only 6 trips to the conference finals
-only 2 finals appearances
-no cups
-Other than Lindros, who should be in the Hall, no hall of fame players in their primes as both Coffey and Pronger were on the down sides of their careers

And, since the lockout
-missed the playoffs 3 times in 10 seasons
-only reached the conference finals twice and the finals once

Since the 2010 finals, the club has missed the playoffs twice and only won 2 rounds total

I completely understand why fans are frustrated as the club has not been the same type of "elite" franchise that they were in the 70s and 80s in recent years.

Quite possibly.
- bmeltzer

Just playing along those lines and the Flyers traded the two 1st rounders and something else to get 3, would Strome be the target? Or could they be interested in someone like Hanifin? I feel the target is a forward this year.

Fine job as always Sir!!

I think what frustrates the fans is the following:

From 1972 to 1989
-17 straight playoff appearances
-10 trips to the Cup semifinals/conference finals
-6 appearances in the Cup finals
-2 Stanley Cup championships
-Hall of Fame players in the prime of their careers: Parent, Clarke, Barber & Howe

However since 1989
-25 total seasons, missed the playoffs in 8 of them
-in the other 17 years, out in the first round 7 times
-only 6 trips to the conference finals
-only 2 finals appearances
-no cups
-Other than Lindros, who should be in the Hall, no hall of fame players in their primes as both Coffey and Pronger were on the down sides of their careers

And, since the lockout
-missed the playoffs 3 times in 10 seasons
-only reached the conference finals twice and the finals once

Since the 2010 finals, the club has missed the playoffs twice and only won 2 rounds total

I completely understand why fans are frustrated as the club has not been the same type of "elite" franchise that they were in the 70s and 80s in recent years.
- BiggE

Absolutely. Can't dispute any of that. But the whole "no Cups in (40) years" stuff is a silly exercise because even a Cup five years ago wouldn't matter to folks now any more than if they'd won in 1987 (as close as a team can get) or another year like 2004 when they absolutely had the players and coaching to do it but then got decimated by injuries at the worst possible time.

Thanks Bill. Can you discuss the potential list of coaches for the Flyers? In addition, do you think that Razor will return as our back up? It seems like Chief lost faith in Razor, since he wasn't played very much during the later part of the season.
Is it September yet?

Bill,

Do you think Zepp is a viable option for NHL back-up next year, or should the team be looking outside of the organization for help? He had some games where he looked good, and some where he looked like an AHL goalie.

Quite possibly.
- bmeltzer

Or take Strome.

Absolutely. Can't dispute any of that. But the whole "no Cups in (40) years" stuff is a silly exercise because even a Cup five years ago wouldn't matter to folks now any more than if they'd won in 1987 (as close as a team can get) or another year like 2004 when they absolutely had the players and coaching to do it but then got decimated by injuries at the worst possible time.
- bmeltzer

I agree to some extent, but, I can only speak for myself, if we had won the cup in 2010, I'd still be pretty happy about it. Also, while certainly not a given, I have to wonder in Laviolette is still coaching in Philly if they had won in 2010.

Now, if they had won in 80 or 87, I totally agree with you. It would have no effect whatsoever on how I feel today.

I think what worries me is that I'm not happy with the overall direction/success rate that the club has had since 2010. However, I do think a lot of that is due to Holmgren trying to patch over the loss of Pronger by making some short sighted moves.

So far, for the most part, I like what Hextall has been doing and hopefully he can get the team moving in the right direction. I just hope the fans and ownership will stay patient and give him a chance, he won't be able to transform this team into a contender overnight, it will take time.

Bill,

Do you think Zepp is a viable option for NHL back-up next year, or should the team be looking outside of the organization for help? He had some games where he looked good, and some where he looked like an AHL goalie.
- jmatchett383

I'm not Bill, but my guess is that they will look to bring in someone with more NHL experience than Zepp.

As long as they stay the course of developing prospect instead of trying to hit a home run in free agency or making a huge trade and over paying for a vet past his prime, Lord Stanley will find it's way parading down Broad Street

Like the Kings or Phillies fanbase, I think that there are 2 different emotions that come into play when discussing a championship. There is "happy" and "content/satisfied." I don't think any Kings/Phillies fans are happy with their team's current play. However, as a Phillies fan, I am satisfied that I hot to see the 2008 World Series. As the first Philly championship (not counting the Wings/Soul/Phantoms) in my lifetime, I will give every member of that team a lifetime pass. I'd prefer them to do well, but I am satisfied with the 2008 championship that I'm okay if they're terrible.

With the Flyers, I just want one Stanley Cup. It's all I'm asking for. If they win it and are terrible for 10 years following, I won't be happy, but the one Stanley Cup would make me satisfied.

Hey real quick, what do you guys think of Filip Chlapik?

Absolutely. Can't dispute any of that. But the whole "no Cups in (40) years" stuff is a silly exercise because even a Cup five years ago wouldn't matter to folks now any more than if they'd won in 1987 (as close as a team can get) or another year like 2004 when they absolutely had the players and coaching to do it but then got decimated by injuries at the worst possible time.
- bmeltzer

It would absolutely matter if they won it 5 years ago. At least to people under age 35 or so. Ask most of us and we'll say the phillies get a 10 year pass. All we've seen in this city is failure from teams that were primed to win championships up until that team did it. I probably wouldn't be on this damn site as much if the flyers won it 5 years ago

Absolutely. Can't dispute any of that. But the whole "no Cups in (40) years" stuff is a silly exercise because even a Cup five years ago wouldn't matter to folks now any more than if they'd won in 1987 (as close as a team can get) or another year like 2004 when they absolutely had the players and coaching to do it but then got decimated by injuries at the worst possible time.
- bmeltzer

i disagree with you completely about the 2010 cup not mattering. it would buoy many of us who have been fans going back to the 80s and beyond.

you can damn well be sure 87, 04, and 10 would make a huge difference. i'm so tired of hearing 1975, broad street bullies, flyers stuck in the 70s, will never win because their goalies suck.

all of these near misses just make it worse. 04 was their best chance - looking at the other 5 losses - all against teams on the brink of dynasty - montreal, ny islanders (robbed), edmonton, detroit, and chicago. calgary was there for the taking.

don't get me wrong, i love the success the team has had and am thankful for it, rather than suffering for decades at a time with no shot.

having a cup in any recent memory would make down years easier, and to the flyers credit they never stay down for long.

Not to nitpick -- because you've done some excellent work here, Bill -- But Pronger lead the Oilers on a Cup in 2006 (I think you wrote 1996) v. Carolina.

i disagree with you completely about the 2010 cup not mattering.
- hammarby31

Would it change your opinion of this year's team?

OT, but I'd be really happy if:

1) Jack Eichel, after the Sabres GM saying sorry to the fans for having to settle for him, decides to play out the 5 total years of NCAA hockey and then signs with another team a la Justin Schultz.

2) Connor McDavid pulls a Lindros stating that he feels like the Oilers are ill-suited to building a winning franchise and is traded to a team that is not Buffalo.

i disagree with you completely about the 2010 cup not mattering. it would buoy many of us who have been fans going back to the 80s and beyond.

you can damn well be sure 87, 04, and 10 would make a huge difference. i'm so tired of hearing 1975, broad street bullies, flyers stuck in the 70s, will never win because their goalies suck.

all of these near misses just make it worse. 04 was their best chance - looking at the other 5 losses - all against teams on the brink of dynasty - montreal, ny islanders (robbed), edmonton, detroit, and chicago. calgary was there for the taking.

don't get me wrong, i love the success the team has had and am thankful for it, rather than suffering for decades at a time with no shot.

having a cup in any recent memory would make down years easier, and to the flyers credit they never stay down for long.
- hammarby31

I agree with all of this.

especially this...

i'm so tired of hearing 1975, broad street bullies, flyers stuck in the 70s, will never win because their goalies suck.

I know every team does it.. and it's certainly alright to honor your past players and the history of your team. But there is such a thing as living in the past wayyyy too much. I would love for a more recent benchmark to be made, and that would at least hold the fanbase over. This is a whole new era, with new, and younger guys playing on this team. I want THEM to make THEIR legacy in history. I'm all for honoring the past in prudence, but the Flyers legacy seems to hinge solely upon it. I want to see it morph into present day times with the talent this team has.

OT, but I'd be really happy if:

1) Jack Eichel, after the Sabres GM saying sorry to the fans for having to settle for him, decides to play out the 5 total years of NCAA hockey and then signs with another team a la Justin Schultz.

2) Connor McDavid pulls a Lindros stating that he feels like the Oilers are ill-suited to building a winning franchise and is traded to a team that is not Buffalo.
- jmatchett383

I was thinking that too.

It would be awesome to see there tank job fail.

If I were McDavid , I go to the KHL for a couple years, believe he was drafted there, and avoid the Edmonton nightmare

Would it change your opinion of this year's team?
- Scoob

my opinion? no. because they are what they are. mediocre. it was just make it easier to tolerate.

the team would also be different anyway, had they won in 2010. maybe better? maybe worse. who knows. but i'd have those memories and never let go of them.