They haven't made the playoff in a full season since 03-04

The season was over the moment Bernier got hurt the first time.

The season was over the moment Bernier got hurt the first time.
- RogerRoeper

could be. but it's not like Bernier was lighting it up when he went down. he might have won 2 of those games during the streak, maybe. that would still leave the Leafs on the outside looking in ATM. ultimately this streak is the best thing that could have happened to the Leafs. it will obviously push Carlyle out but the real good news in Toronto is that this SHOULD lead to Nonis' dismissal. that guy has done a lot of damage in just one year on the job. he'll destroy that organization if left in the position.

could be. but it's not like Bernier was lighting it up when he went down. he might have won 2 of those games during the streak, maybe. that would still leave the Leafs on the outside looking in ATM. ultimately this streak is the best thing that could have happened to the Leafs. it will obviously push Carlyle out but the real good news in Toronto is that this SHOULD lead to Nonis' dismissal. that guy has done a lot of damage in just one year on the job. he'll destroy that organization if left in the position.
- DoubleDown

I hope they clean house on Management and coaches. I listened to and read most of the interviews they had all season, they are outdated in the approach they take to running a team. Very out of touch with what is really happening with the team.

I suspect its only RC that goes though

http://proxy.autopod.ca/p...OR%20-%20Final%20BTEW.mp3

The season was over the moment Bernier got hurt the first time.
- RogerRoeper

He was covering up the fact they can't play defense and really is an unproven goalie. There are bigger issues than him getting hurt

He was covering up the fact they can't play defense and really is an unproven goalie. There are bigger issues than him getting hurt
- jordan456789

How is he unproven exactly?

The season was over the moment Bernier got hurt the first time.
- RogerRoeper

bernier getting hurt was absolutely NOT the reason the leafs missed.

he had to put up vezina numbers just to keep this team afloat, and cover the deficienies this team has.

your defence played the entire year like an average AHL group (for the record, i think they're better than that, but just a lot of guys having down years at the same time).

You also have a serious lack of depth up front.....if your first line is contained (which is obviously not easy to do), there aren't really any other threats on offence. kadri is dangerous, but he's inconsistent, and didn't have much to play with in terms of linemates.

and the biggest issue, IMO, is your coaching. carlyle has NO CLUE what he's doing with this team. the structure and system is almost non-existent. I thought sens got caught running around and chasing the play in thier own zone, but they look like a well oiled machine when compared to what the leafs do in the defensive zone.

when your goalie has to put up a .940 + sv%, just for your team to stay 6-8pts up on 9th, then there are some SERIOUS underlying issues with your team. those kind of numbers by a goalie should have a team coasting to the president's trophy. believe me, i know, i saw it in ottawa last year

How is he unproven exactly?
- RogerRoeper

how is he proven?

he's gonna be 26, and he's only played ONE SEASON as a starter............and his team didnt' even make the playoffs.

i don't think anyone is suggesting he's not a good player, but he is definitely not a proven starter.

how is he proven?

he's gonna be 26, and he's only played ONE SEASON as a starter............and his team didnt' even make the playoffs.

i don't think anyone is suggesting he's not a good player, but he is definitely not a proven starter.
- sensarmy_11

Yeah because he got injured.

bernier getting hurt was absolutely NOT the reason the leafs missed.

he had to put up vezina numbers just to keep this team afloat, and cover the deficienies this team has.

your defence played the entire year like an average AHL group (for the record, i think they're better than that, but just a lot of guys having down years at the same time).

You also have a serious lack of depth up front.....if your first line is contained (which is obviously not easy to do), there aren't really any other threats on offence. kadri is dangerous, but he's inconsistent, and didn't have much to play with in terms of linemates.

and the biggest issue, IMO, is your coaching. carlyle has NO CLUE what he's doing with this team. the structure and system is almost non-existent. I thought sens got caught running around and chasing the play in thier own zone, but they look like a well oiled machine when compared to what the leafs do in the defensive zone.

when your goalie has to put up a .940 + sv%, just for your team to stay 6-8pts up on 9th, then there are some SERIOUS underlying issues with your team. those kind of numbers by a goalie should have a team coasting to the president's trophy. believe me, i know, i saw it in ottawa last year
- sensarmy_11

Almost everything you are saying is true. But in the end, they were 3rd in the conference when Bernier got injured in LA. The only way to miss the playoffs was to lose every game. And they did that.

And BTW, this isn't quite the same case as Ottawa. Bernier was terrific, but he posted a .925 save%, not 940 like Anderson last season.

Yeah because he got injured.
- RogerRoeper

if you think THAT is the reason the leafs didn't make the playoffs, then your delusional.

i love that your team sets an nhl record of futility, for shots against, and your offence is anemic beyond your top line.......and somehow you figure that the reason you didn't make the playoffs was because your starting goalie missed a few games.

if you think THAT is the reason the leafs didn't make the playoffs, then your delusional.

i love that your team sets an nhl record of futility, for shots against, and your offence is anemic beyond your top line.......and somehow you figure that the reason you didn't make the playoffs was because your starting goalie missed a few games.


- sensarmy_11

The Leafs have no issues beyond the top line. They had an NHL average amount of points aside from the top line. They have a lot of 20 goal scorers.

Almost everything you are saying is true. But in the end, they were 3rd in the conference when Bernier ot injured in LA. The only way to miss the playoffs was to lose every game. And they did that.

And BTW, this isn't quite the same case as Ottawa. Bernier was terrific, but he posted a .925 save%, not 940 like Anderson last season.
- RogerRoeper

the difference between 3rd, and out of the playoffs, was only like 6 points...........not exactly a convincing argument.

and even when he came back, they continued to lose.

the difference between 3rd, and out of the playoffs, was only like 6 points...........not exactly a convincing argument.

and even when he came back, they continued to lose.
- sensarmy_11

He was rushed back and still injured.

And they had a 7 point cushion. That is pretty good.

The Leafs have no issues beyond the top line. They had an NHL average amount of points aside from the top line. They have a lot of 20 goal scorers.
- RogerRoeper

kadri is good.

lupul is completely incapable of staying healthy.....that's never gonna change.

and if it wasn't for a really hot start to the season, raymond comes nowhere close to 20 goals. he was invisible for about 65% of the season.

if lupul can stay healthy, then you have 2/3 of a good 2nd line, but he'll miss 20-30 games a year (that's as sure as death and taxes) and when that happens, there's nobody to take his place.

He was rushed back and still injured.

And they had a 7 point cushion. That is pretty good.
- RogerRoeper

dude, you seriosuly need to realize that the reason you missed the playoffs was because your team isn't very good..........NOT because bernier missed 7 or 8 games.

admitting it is the first step towards recovery.....unless you're plagued with the same inability to see the faults in your team, as leafs management is......in which case, i feel bad for you.

dude, you seriosuly need to realize that the reason you missed the playoffs was because your team isn't very good..........NOT because bernier missed 7 or 8 games.
admitting it is the first step towards recovery.....unless you're plagued with the same inability to see the faults in your team, as leafs management is......in which case, i feel bad for you.
- sensarmy_11

The facts say otherwise.

You seem to be thinking me stating Bernier's injury ended their season means everything is wonderful.

Again, I'm agreeing with a majority of your points. The thing is, despite all that they had a playoff spot in their hands until the moment Bernier got injured.

The facts say otherwise.

You seem to be thinking me stating Bernier's injury ended their season means everything is wonderful.

Again, I'm agreeing with a majority of your points. The thing is, despite all that they had a playoff spot in their hands until the moment Bernier got injured.
- RogerRoeper

obviously there's no way to know one way or the other, but with the way your team nose dived.......and i don't just mean in teh standings, the entire team was playing AHL calibre hockey for over a month..............i personally don't think bernier would have been able to save that sinking ship. your defence was poop, and your offence dried up (you were scoring only 2 gpg on average). bernier would have likely had to put up like a .950+ sv%, and a GAA under 2, to have stayed in the playoff picture.

if Bernier getting hurt is the reason the leafs missed the playoffs in your opinion you are getting the team you deserve.

if Bernier getting hurt is the reason the leafs missed the playoffs in your opinion you are getting the team you deserve.
- senstroll

Yes. Without a doubt, it came to that. How can people deny this?

And again, aside from the terrible Craig Anderson comparison, I agree with all the points about their problems.

Yes. Without a doubt, it came to that. How can people deny this?

And again, aside from the terrible Craig Anderson comparison, I agree with all the points about their problems.
- RogerRoeper

huh?

what comparison

Yes. Without a doubt, it came to that. How can people deny this?

And again, aside from the terrible Craig Anderson comparison, I agree with all the points about their problems.
- RogerRoeper

Do you realize Detroit lost datsyuk and zetterberg and still made the playoffs, Columbus lost last years vesina winner in bobrocsky and still made it and leafs fans are going to blame bernier getting hurt as the reason. Going into the season you never had a number one and all season we all heard how reimer was a good goalie. Your team is not that good and you collapsed.

huh?

what comparison
- sensarmy_11

You claimed Bernier put-up 940. save % and tried to tie-it-to Ottawa's situation with Anderson.

Do you realize Detroit lost datsyuk and zetterberg and still made the playoffs, Columbus lost last years vesina winner in bobrocsky and still made it and leafs fans are going to blame bernier getting hurt as the reason. Going into the season you never had a number one and all season we all heard how reimer was a good goalie. Your team is not that good and you collapsed.
- jordan456789

Sure they did. They had two very solid goalies going into the season.