Ryan Wilson: Power play failures seeping into other areas Power play failures seeping into other areas

A lot of time being spent arguing over where to lay blame. Does it really even matter anymore? At the least this team needs a shock to its system. Can Reirden and go from there. Status quo will have us in the basement by XMAS.

Too much overreaction around here tonight IMO. Flyers were better team tonight overall but not by that much. Pens were just super sloppy. It happens sometimes. 3 on 3 hockey is wack and a crapshoot. Never put too much stock in W's or L's in one.
- MattStrat

I think you're wrong. This isn't about last night, it's about the entire season.

They have the 3rd most odd-man rushes given up per game. Their PP can't get their heads out of their asses. The 2nd line has been trash since Rakell went down. Graves has been an utter disappointment and waste of 4.5m per season.

I think you're wrong. This isn't about last night, it's about the entire season.

They have the 3rd most odd-man rushes given up per game. Their PP can't get their heads out of their asses. The 2nd line has been trash since Rakell went down. Graves has been an utter disappointment and waste of 4.5m per season.
- j.boyd919

Yeah, this is a season I wasn't sure they'd even make the playoffs haha. I think people expected a lot more than I did and that's where the emotional overreactions are coming from. You can cherry pick some great stats about them too, if you wish...well I mean, you did when you showed a few weeks ago they had three of the top 20 lines at 5 on 5 leagues in the league. That was you, wasn't it?

I think you're wrong. This isn't about last night, it's about the entire season.

They have the 3rd most odd-man rushes given up per game. Their PP can't get their heads out of their asses. The 2nd line has been trash since Rakell went down. Graves has been an utter disappointment and waste of 4.5m per season.
- j.boyd919

Did you catch any of his games in NJ last year? If so did he seem worth the contract at signing? I was excited to see him as a Pen but knew nothing about him.

The contact seems like a gross overestimation of his skill right now.

Did you catch any of his games in NJ last year? If so did he seem worth the contract at signing? I was excited to see him as a Pen but knew nothing about him.

The contact seems like a gross overestimation of his skill right now.
- Thorny87

He has not been good at all, really. Looks nervous and shaky to me a lot of nights.

He has not been good at all, really. Looks nervous and shaky to me a lot of nights.
- MattStrat

Agreed, I'm just wondering how he got that contract? His numbers must have been good in NJ? He's a big awkward pilon right now

At 5-on-4 PP:

* They have scored 6 goals and given up 4, making them only +2 in 24 games at 5-on-4.

* They haven't scored in 11 straight games and are -2 during that stretch.

* Going back 14 games they're -2 on their own PP. It's not until 15 games back that they reach even. What's the longest streak ever of being a minus on your own PP?

* At 5-on-5 their GF-GA per 60 are 2.9-2.1. At 5-on-4 those are 3.5-2.3 ... yes, they're giving up more goals per 60 on their own PP than at 5-on-5!

It's a Cap league, there are always going to multiple areas you could improve, but if their PP was even just league average, they'd be doing OK in the standings. It's really amazing that with these players they can be this bad on the PP.

Agreed, I'm just wondering how he got that contract? His numbers must have been good in NJ? He's a big awkward pilon right now
- Thorny87

hahaha I don't know ...he was part of a pretty good 3rd pairing with Marino last season for Jersey, making 3.16 mill per year. Jersey rolled their pairings equally a lot though last season, though, so it wasnt like a sheltered role by any means.

At 5-on-4 PP:

* They have scored 6 goals and given up 4, making them only +2 in 24 games at 5-on-4.

* They haven't scored in 11 straight games and are -2 during that stretch.

* Going back 14 games they're -2 on their own PP. It's not until 15 games back that they reach even. What's the longest streak ever of being a minus on your own PP?

* At 5-on-5 their GF-GA per 60 are 2.9-2.1. At 5-on-4 those are 3.5-2.3 ... yes, they're giving up more goals per 60 on their own PP than at 5-on-5!

It's a Cap league, there are always going to multiple areas you could improve, but if their PP was even just league average, they'd be doing OK in the standings. It's really amazing that with these players they can be this bad on the PP.
- MickV

That's right, the fact of the matter is if they had at least league average PP% they are 2nd in the division and no one is saying much of any negative at all.

I think you're wrong. This isn't about last night, it's about the entire season.

They have the 3rd most odd-man rushes given up per game. Their PP can't get their heads out of their asses. The 2nd line has been trash since Rakell went down. Graves has been an utter disappointment and waste of 4.5m per season.
- j.boyd919

The goal tending is saving them for the most part the last couple weeks. If that goes south a little bit, watch out. Might dig a hole they can't recover from.

There's definitely positives, but everything seems so disjointed. They're not going to fire Sullivan, but this is the kind of situation that would normally justify it. Somebody mentioned bringing in a PP specialist coach.....they should do that today.

Just calling Rak a 0G winger is a bit short sighted IMO. He's shown to be much more than that in his career and saying they're spiraling is a bit of an exaggeration IMO as well.

Rak was playing very good just not burying goals. He had 7 shots in some games. The Pens had 3 of the top 20 5 on 5 lines in the league when Rak was healthy and the 3rd line was Z, Doc and Eller.
- MattStrat

I’m glad Rak is skating because his presence could fix 2/3’s of the team imo.

And if the pp… if dubas doesn’t change someone though nothing is going to change and that’s that. They mid a pp1 Sid unit and a pp2 geno unit and not switch it. Don’t know how a multi million dollar coach can’t see this.

Did you catch any of his games in NJ last year? If so did he seem worth the contract at signing? I was excited to see him as a Pen but knew nothing about him.

The contact seems like a gross overestimation of his skill right now.
- Thorny87

Not last year, but the year before I did some work for the Devils so I had to watch a bunch of their games. He never really stood out, which for a non-offensive D-man, that's usually what you want?

I think a lot of people thought that the Graves contract was not going to be a good one when he became a free agent. He doesn't play as big as he is, he's not really physical, his first pass is meh, he has a rocket of a shot but his accuracy is trash, that's his only mindset is get the puck and shoot -- I think a lot of cycles/possession ends with him missing the net.

The thing I've noticed most this year, is his gap control is terrible. As puck carriers skate in on him, he never closes the gap with an active stick, but instead backs up giving shooters "screens," his stick is never active on those gap controls like they should be. He regularly chases guys into the corner and never recovers, it's like he gets fixated on puck carriers and gets out of position.

Lindy Ruff said the Devil's system "made Gravy a lot of money" when they talked about how the Pens in-zone defensive scheme is the polar opposite of NJD's lol so some of it might be attributed to getting used to a new system.

I personally think Graves would be better on a balanced/shut down type d-pairing as opposed to one with an offensive defenseman, even though Letang has dialed b ack the offensive a bit this year.

Yeah, this is a season I wasn't sure they'd even make the playoffs haha. I think people expected a lot more than I did and that's where the emotional overreactions are coming from. You can cherry pick some great stats about them too, if you wish...well I mean, you did when you showed a few weeks ago they had three of the top 20 lines at 5 on 5 leagues in the league. That was you, wasn't it?
- MattStrat

Yep, that was, and while they do have one of the best lines in the Sid line, Geno's line fell off when Rakell got hurt, the Eller line (minus DOC) has been 1 GF 2GA since. And the PP is an albatross.

The problem is the quality chances the Pens are giving up with all of the odd-man rushes and turnovers on the PP, those can flip a game regardless of how good the process is.

hahaha I don't know ...he was part of a pretty good 3rd pairing with Marino last season for Jersey, making 3.16 mill per year. Jersey rolled their pairings equally a lot though last season, though, so it wasnt like a sheltered role by any means.
- MattStrat

Graves said the NJD system is complete polar opposite to the Pens system.

Yep, that was, and while they do have one of the best lines in the Sid line, Geno's line fell off when Rakell got hurt, the Eller line (minus DOC) has been 1 GF 2GA since. And the PP is an albatross.

The problem is the quality chances the Pens are giving up with all of the odd-man rushes and turnovers on the PP, those can flip a game regardless of how good the process is.
- j.boyd919

Yeah I totally agree with all that. A lot of this can be rectified, that isn't me saying it will be, but it can be. 58 games left in very close striking distance of 2nd and 3rd in division. For me there's been an awful lot to like so far this season as well.

Not last year, but the year before I did some work for the Devils so I had to watch a bunch of their games. He never really stood out, which for a non-offensive D-man, that's usually what you want?

I think a lot of people thought that the Graves contract was not going to be a good one when he became a free agent. He doesn't play as big as he is, he's not really physical, his first pass is meh, he has a rocket of a shot but his accuracy is trash, that's his only mindset is get the puck and shoot -- I think a lot of cycles/possession ends with him missing the net.

The thing I've noticed most this year, is his gap control is terrible. As puck carriers skate in on him, he never closes the gap with an active stick, but instead backs up giving shooters "screens," his stick is never active on those gap controls like they should be. He regularly chases guys into the corner and never recovers, it's like he gets fixated on puck carriers and gets out of position.

Lindy Ruff said the Devil's system "made Gravy a lot of money" when they talked about how the Pens in-zone defensive scheme is the polar opposite of NJD's lol so some of it might be attributed to getting used to a new system.

I personally think Graves would be better on a balanced/shut down type d-pairing as opposed to one with an offensive defenseman, even though Letang has dialed b ack the offensive a bit this year.
- j.boyd919

I think getting used to a new system could be a big factor here but my eyes also tell me he looks shaky a lot of nights. Maybe his nerves settle in time too. We know that a lot of times D-men can look better in year 2 with a new club.

I use the same word to describe the Penguins as I do the Steelers - arrogance.

Good teams evolve with the game and the makeup of their roster. The Penguins still think their core is in their mid 20s. We cannot overwhelm teams anymore and win in these back and forth contests. Giving up odd man rush after odd man rush is not sustainable. As someone else said, our goaltending is bailing us out now.

The powerplay is a disaster. No other way around it. But I feel like we complain about the powerplay every year? Even still, this one looks worse than any other version that I've seen in Pittsburgh.

Not last year, but the year before I did some work for the Devils so I had to watch a bunch of their games. He never really stood out, which for a non-offensive D-man, that's usually what you want?

I think a lot of people thought that the Graves contract was not going to be a good one when he became a free agent. He doesn't play as big as he is, he's not really physical, his first pass is meh, he has a rocket of a shot but his accuracy is trash, that's his only mindset is get the puck and shoot -- I think a lot of cycles/possession ends with him missing the net.

The thing I've noticed most this year, is his gap control is terrible. As puck carriers skate in on him, he never closes the gap with an active stick, but instead backs up giving shooters "screens," his stick is never active on those gap controls like they should be. He regularly chases guys into the corner and never recovers, it's like he gets fixated on puck carriers and gets out of position.

Lindy Ruff said the Devil's system "made Gravy a lot of money" when they talked about how the Pens in-zone defensive scheme is the polar opposite of NJD's lol so some of it might be attributed to getting used to a new system.

I personally think Graves would be better on a balanced/shut down type d-pairing as opposed to one with an offensive defenseman, even though Letang has dialed b ack the offensive a bit this year.
- j.boyd919

Thanks.

Graves stick looks foreign to him like he's still trying to figure out how it works.

Honestly Petts is the only D man we have that really challenges skaters well with his stick.

The D as a whole is backing in and giving up the line too much right now. Could be a disconnect between the forwards and the D with the new-ish neutral zone system Sully is trying to employ.

It shouldn't be a surprise to me but Tanger and Ek's games are very similar. Right down to them occasionally loosing their flipping mind and making the most boneheaded play imaginable.

I use the same word to describe the Penguins as I do the Steelers - arrogance.

Good teams evolve with the game and the makeup of their roster. The Penguins still think their core is in their mid 20s. We cannot overwhelm teams anymore and win in these back and forth contests. Giving up odd man rush after odd man rush is not sustainable. As someone else said, our goaltending is bailing us out now.

The powerplay is a disaster. No other way around it. But I feel like we complain about the powerplay every year? Even still, this one looks worse than any other version that I've seen in Pittsburgh.
- SuperHenderson13

There was a period of games where they played very well defensively. Jesse Marshall was praising them and writing all sorts of nice stuff about it. Tanger, in regards to this and the changes was even quoted as saying "we are not 25 years old anymore" hahah

But they revert back to these big loose ways a lot since. As the old saying goes "old habits die hard"

Now in saying this, in some of the games the shot totals made it look like they were outplayed but really they did a masterful job of keeping shots against to the perimeter ie: game vs Vegas or 3rd period vs Leafs.

I think getting used to a new system could be a big factor here but my eyes also tell me he looks shaky a lot of nights. Maybe his nerves settle in time too. We know that a lot of times D-men can look better in year 2 with a new club.
- MattStrat

True. Ie: Paul Martin

Letang-Petterson. Crosby Guentzel’s Rust is what my 1st PP would be next game. I’m pretty sure it has more to do with the players than the coaching. I’d also like to see one 40 second shift in OT where the players just go hard. That Euro trash 3-3 the league plays is gross.

Letang-Petterson. Crosby Guentzel’s Rust is what my 1st PP would be next game.
- Grinder47

Yes man, that's pretty close to what I've been saying...just roll with the regular lines or 1st line, anyway...i know the D pairing in this setup is a bit different but I would totally give this a shot.

True. Ie: Paul Martin
- 10inchTerror

Gonchar

It could have a serious affect though. The 3rd line was atrocious until they added Z to doc and Eller. Moving doc up could re-mess up that line and doc just might not have the capabilities to be in the top 6, where even if Rak isn’t scoring he can still support the other 2. Between malkin’s flu and then Rak going out, that would line up with that line’s disappearance.
- 10inchTerror

That's basically what I'm getting at. Rak wasn't even playing at his best, but the trickle effect it's had on the line up has been devastating. It's basically destroyed the middle six. That shouldn't be the case, but the Pens lack of depth is showing that their line up was a house of cards. It's nice all three lines were clicking when everyone was healthy, but you can't count on your entire top nine being healthy.