Ryan Wilson: #WingersforSid? Looking back at Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis #WingersforSid? Looking back at Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis

the evil david steckel.

I love seeing graphs with 3 curves that have no legend indicating what they are.

I love seeing graphs with 3 curves that have no legend indicating what they are.
- jmatchett383

It clearly lists what they are.

It clearly lists what they are.
- Blackstrom2

I missed that. But I still want to know what a 93% "finishing" is. Does that mean they finished 93% of their chances? That seems high.

It's possible he's color blind. We don't know.

I missed that. But I still want to know what a 93% "finishing" is. Does that mean they finished 93% of their chances? That seems high.
- jmatchett383

It's percentiles relative to the rest of the league. So 93% is the 93rd percentile.

EDIT: And that's shooting percentage, I'm fairly sure. So 93rd percentile in shooting percentage.

It's percentiles relative to the rest of the league. So 93% is the 93rd percentile.

EDIT: And that's shooting percentage, I'm fairly sure. So 93rd percentile in shooting percentage.
- Victoro311

So you're telling that for 3 consecutive seasons, they were the #1 best "offense" line in the NHL? I'm assuming "offense" is total points? As good as they were, I find that hard to believe.

Edit: Hossa with Crosby was insane. Kunitz and Dupuis meshed with him, but Hossa was another level....despite his Cup searching.

So you're telling that for 3 consecutive seasons, they were the #1 best "offense" line in the NHL? I'm assuming "offense" is total points? As good as they were, I find that hard to believe.
- jmatchett383

Here it is from JFresh's website:

Finishing: An estimate of how a player contributes to his team through his ability to score on the shots he takes above what is expected based on the expected goal model.

So its a bit more than just raw shooting percentage. From that info I'm assuming its some function involving XG, GF, and S%, but I'm no good at math so not going presume how it's put together.

I mean, Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis was an excellent line. I would not at all be shocked if they were in the 93rd percentile of offensive production. Is it that hard to believe that they were better than 9 out of 10 lines in the NHL on average?

Here it is from JFresh's website:



So its a bit more than just raw shooting percentage. From that info I'm assuming its some function involving XG, GF, and S%, but I'm no good at math so not going presume how it's put together.

I mean, Kunitz-Dupuis-Dupuis was an excellent line. I would not at all be shocked if they were in the 93rd percentile of offensive production. Is it that hard to believe that they were better than 9 out of 10 lines in the NHL on average?
- Victoro311

They're at 100% of "offense" from 11/12 through 13/14. Meaning they were the best, correct?

And I put way more faith into raw numbers that some function somebody came up with one Saturday afternoon. So yeah, saying that trio were in the top-10% all 3 years...sure. But being #1 at "offense" seems like a stretch.

They're at 100% of "offense" from 11/12 through 13/14. Meaning they were the best, correct?

And I put way more faith into raw numbers that some function somebody came up with one Saturday afternoon. So yeah, saying that trio were in the top-10% all 3 years...sure. But being #1 at "offense" seems like a stretch.
- jmatchett383

For offense Sid was at 100, but Kunitz was at 93 and Duper was at 87. I'm not sure where that puts them at a line when they're all together vs other lines, but I'm assuming Dupuis "drags" them to not being the very best line.

Through that time period, at 5v5, they're goals/60 ranks are Sid 1st, Kunitz 2nd, Dupuis 7th. Tangible goals scored is only part of the equation when it comes to offensive percentile, but that's a preposterously high combination for three players.

For offense Sid was at 100, but Kunitz was at 93 and Duper was at 87. I'm not sure where that puts them at a line when they're all together vs other lines, but I'm assuming Dupuis "drags" them to not being the very best line.

Through that time period, at 5v5, they're goals/60 ranks are Sid 1st, Kunitz 2nd, Dupuis 7th. Tangible goals scored is only part of the equation when it comes to offensive percentile, but that's a preposterously high combination for three players.
- Victoro311

It is high, and I list Crosby as the 6th best player of all time (Orr #1, Gretzky/Lemieux #2/3, Howe #4, Jagr #5), so it's not impossible.

That said, tangible offense, to me, is all that, matters. For example: If you "attempt" to shoot the puck 400 times, but it only gets on the net 100 times and only goes in 10 times, are you really "creating" offense? I'd say you're creating an illusion of offense, because it's not translating to anything. I get the whole large sample size and such, but this isn't baseball where it's 1v1 matchups, it's a flowing game with countless variables changing every moment.

So if you want to say Sid was the best player (because PPs and PKs don't really exist, they're myths) over that span, and that Kunitz and Dupuis were also near the top, that's fine. I just don't think throwing numbers into some arbitrary algorithm and putting a % based on that result works.

But yeah, Crosby is otherworldly good, and Kunitz and Dupuis meshed incredibly well with him.

While these last few blogs have been interesting to re-visit, I kind of hate them. I'm not in denial about the window ending, but this just makes it feel like we're really wrapping this up.

They're at 100% of "offense" from 11/12 through 13/14. Meaning they were the best, correct?

And I put way more faith into raw numbers that some function somebody came up with one Saturday afternoon. So yeah, saying that trio were in the top-10% all 3 years...sure. But being #1 at "offense" seems like a stretch.

Gunner: *Exhales*

jmatchett383: That's a stretch

While these last few blogs have been interesting to re-visit, I kind of hate them. I'm not in denial about the window ending, but this just makes it feel like we're really wrapping this up.
- Rinosaur

Been wrapping it up for a few years now lol

Been wrapping it up for a few years now lol
- j.boyd919

I know. This just makes it feel a little more official.

Jimmy Hayes passed away at age 31 today. I believe he spent some time with the Baby Penguins in the AHL... played for a couple of NHL teams including NJ and CHI... brother of Kevin Hayes.

What's crazy/sad is he was having a birthday party for his kid yesterday based on Instagram. It looks like Dumo was with him as well. No idea what happened, but such a tragic death. Leaves behind a wife and 2 young kids.

Gunner: *Exhales*

jmatchett383: That's a stretch
- DeflatedPucks

hahaha

Its wild watching these vids of highlights from years gone by and remember seeing them as they happened at that time.

Jimmy Hayes passed away at age 31 today. I believe he spent some time with the Baby Penguins in the AHL... played for a couple of NHL teams including NJ and CHI... brother of Kevin Hayes.

What's crazy/sad is he was having a birthday party for his kid yesterday based on Instagram. It looks like Dumo was with him as well. No idea what happened, but such a tragic death. Leaves behind a wife and 2 young kids.
- SuperHenderson13

Awful news. I just saw the photo of him Dumo and another friend with their kids at the party.

Its wild watching these vids of highlights from years gone by and remember seeing them as they happened at that time.
- MattStrat

From last thread:
Ah gothcya. I thought it was all time players.

I dont know...Kuny-Sid-Dupuis was pretty damn special too....

I really did think about doing it but I couldn't pass up the Kuni-Geno-Neal line.

Awful news. I just saw the photo of him Dumo and another friend with their kids at the party.
- burgh4life87

That is crazy, I wonder what happened?

There’s really nothing to say about it, as good a line as the Pens have had in the Crosby era. Now we get a healthy dose of Simon and Sid show.

While these last few blogs have been interesting to re-visit, I kind of hate them. I'm not in denial about the window ending, but this just makes it feel like we're really wrapping this up.
- Rinosaur

Hockey’s unpredictable. I think it would undoubtedly require a coaching change but the Pens could still win A couple of series. You win a couple and who knows what happens. If Sullivan is still going to pretend this is the 2016 and coach as such then yeah not a snowballs chance in hell.

Hockey’s unpredictable. I think it would undoubtedly require a coaching change but the Pens could still win A couple of series. You win a couple and who knows what happens. If Sullivan is still going to pretend this is the 2016 and coach as such then yeah not a snowballs chance in hell.
- Grinder47

Every now and then I agree with you and this is one of those times. I will say however I dont see Sully getting them to play any other way and not only that their backend isn't really built for more of a slower paced D-first shut down approach IMO.