Matt Karash: Jordan Staal trade - After time to digest (Part 1: Canes team context)

I think It is important to remember that Jordan gives us a lot of options now with our top 6. He can play Center on Eric's line or drop down to man the 2nd line Center job and give us a ridiculously strong and BIG center group. Jordan could line up like Kesler does for Vancouver on the 2nd line with Hank on the first. Eric can play C/W, Jordan can play C/W, Ruutu can play C/W. We have a TON of flexibility for line changes when one player starts slumping to mix it up.

Also, I don't expect a lot from Jared, but can you imagine him lining up with them? 3 6'4 200+ pound forwards that can throw their body around when they want? If he could plant himself on the crease in front of the goalie to disrupt their D, that line could be HUGE. I like to call that "Genetics Win!"

I think It is important to remember that Jordan gives us a lot of options now with our top 6. He can play Center on Eric's line or drop down to man the 2nd line Center job and give us a ridiculously strong and BIG center group. Jordan could line up like Kesler does for Vancouver on the 2nd line with Hank on the first. Eric can play C/W, Jordan can play C/W, Ruutu can play C/W. We have a TON of flexibility for line changes when one player starts slumping to mix it up.

Also, I don't expect a lot from Jared, but can you imagine him lining up with them? 3 6'4 200+ pound forwards that can throw their body around when they want? If he could plant himself on the crease in front of the goalie to disrupt their D, that line could be HUGE. I like to call that "Genetics Win!"
- T_Cane0

You Guys have 6 or more C/W, Eric and Jordan Staal, Skinner, Jokinen, Ruutu and Boychuck.

Im curious to see how the Hurricanes allocate his special teams ice time. He is a great penalty killer and he obviously played that role in Pittsburgh, but his lack of PP time helped keep him fresh for the PK. Certainly part of moving on from Pittsburgh was to have a more offensive role which would mean more time on the PP. Will be interesting to see how much PK ice time he loses moving forward.

You Guys have 6 or more C/W, Eric and Jordan Staal, Skinner, Jokinen, Ruutu and Boychuck.
- -xXx-

Yeah, Boychuk is iffy though. I'm not convinced he'll make it yet.

The amount of line shuffling could be interesting.

Im curious to see how the Hurricanes allocate his special teams ice time. He is a great penalty killer and he obviously played that role in Pittsburgh, but his lack of PP time helped keep him fresh for the PK. Certainly part of moving on from Pittsburgh was to have a more offensive role which would mean more time on the PP. Will be interesting to see how much PK ice time he loses moving forward.
- Gunner Staal

Yeah, he can only be on the ice so long. I figure they'll to limit his PK time and get a strong #3 Center who is strong on the PK to help even that out. I'd like to see someone like Dominic Moore

Keep in mind we also have Tim Brent. Maybe they move him up to 3rd line?

Yeah, he can only be on the ice so long. I figure they'll to limit his PK time and get a strong #3 Center who is strong on the PK to help even that out. I'd like to see someone like Dominic Moore

Keep in mind we also have Tim Brent. Maybe they move him up to 3rd line?
- T_Cane0

I really like Dominic Moore for this slot partly because the price is realistic. (Gaustad is the elite version for this slot, but because of that he likely does not fit the Canes budget especially with a hole still in the top 4 on defense.)

I don't think Brent is the answer. He was one of the players who really found his place once Muller took over, but I don't think it is as a regular 3rd line forward. Playing 4th line minutes gives you a fresh set of legs off the bench for PK. He also fit very well playing point on the power play. Unless a more offensive-minded youngster (think Murphy or Sanguinetti) seizes a 3rd pairing D role, the Canes will be light on real power play options on the blue line which makes Brent a decent option up top. He looked okay if not good there late last year. Further, as much as I like Brent in the right role, I just don't think his offensive upside is enough to garner 10-12 minutes of even strength ice time in a 3rd line slot every night.

I say Dominic Moore who skates well enough to go with guys like Dwyer, Larose, youth to create a little bit of offense off the rush from a primarily defensive role exactly like Sutter did.

I like the trade but thought the price was too high. I know why Rutherford did it though. It will definately make ticket sales a little easier in a market where we have not made the playoffs since 2009.

Where's Bingo? I haven't seen him post about the trade yet.

I think this is a beautiful trade for the Canes. The 8th pick in this draft wasn't going to bring in a sure fire impact player and if any year was the year to flip the pick for a player, it'd be this one. Jordan playing the second line role will be a matchup hell for teams and it'll be nice to see this guy get real, offensive minutes for once. He's always been the 3rd fiddle even dating back to his junior days. The talent has always been their to be that guy, but come on, playing behind Malkin and Crosby? Fact of the matter is this deal was a no brainer and with him signing on long term to hang with his brother, the Canes will be laughing.

I think this is a beautiful trade for the Canes. The 8th pick in this draft wasn't going to bring in a sure fire impact player and if any year was the year to flip the pick for a player, it'd be this one. Jordan playing the second line role will be a matchup hell for teams and it'll be nice to see this guy get real, offensive minutes for once. He's always been the 3rd fiddle even dating back to his junior days. The talent has always been their to be that guy, but come on, playing behind Malkin and Crosby? Fact of the matter is this deal was a no brainer and with him signing on long term to hang with his brother, the Canes will be laughing.
- Lohaus

Well done by both sides.

Well done by both sides.
- Gunner Staal

I posted this in your penguins thread last week, before the trade even happened. The discussion was about how the Canes knew Staal wanted to be there and the Pens essentially were going to take whatever was offered. I knew this deal would be good for both sides just because of who was involved:

"The thing is you have three main players in this discussion who are pretty much some of the best people you'll meet in the business in Rutherford, Shero and Staal. If it is determined that Jordan wants to play in Carolina, he'll be upfront about it first and foremost and second, Shero and Rutherford will come to an agreement for fair value. Other GMs I'd be more concerned with."

I posted this in your penguins thread last week, before the trade even happened. The discussion was about how the Canes knew Staal wanted to be there and the Pens essentially were going to take whatever was offered. I knew this deal would be good for both sides just because of who was involved:

"The thing is you have three main players in this discussion who are pretty much some of the best people you'll meet in the business in Rutherford, Shero and Staal. If it is determined that Jordan wants to play in Carolina, he'll be upfront about it first and foremost and second, Shero and Rutherford will come to an agreement for fair value. Other GMs I'd be more concerned with."
- Lohaus

yeah. its nice when it pays off to not be total Richards to each other

I posted this in your penguins thread last week, before the trade even happened. The discussion was about how the Canes knew Staal wanted to be there and the Pens essentially were going to take whatever was offered. I knew this deal would be good for both sides just because of who was involved:

"The thing is you have three main players in this discussion who are pretty much some of the best people you'll meet in the business in Rutherford, Shero and Staal. If it is determined that Jordan wants to play in Carolina, he'll be upfront about it first and foremost and second, Shero and Rutherford will come to an agreement for fair value. Other GMs I'd be more concerned with."
- Lohaus

Yea you nailed it. I feel like Rutherford honored a deal when he really didn't have to after Jordan's comments went public.

I posted this in your penguins thread last week, before the trade even happened. The discussion was about how the Canes knew Staal wanted to be there and the Pens essentially were going to take whatever was offered. I knew this deal would be good for both sides just because of who was involved:

"The thing is you have three main players in this discussion who are pretty much some of the best people you'll meet in the business in Rutherford, Shero and Staal. If it is determined that Jordan wants to play in Carolina, he'll be upfront about it first and foremost and second, Shero and Rutherford will come to an agreement for fair value. Other GMs I'd be more concerned with."
- Lohaus

I remember reading that post and liking it a lot.

Professionals acting like professionals, nice to see. Shero has always said that both teams should benefit from a trade (not sure how this fits with the Neal and Kunitz trade though haha).

Yea you nailed it. I feel like Rutherford honored a deal when he really didn't have to after Jordan's comments went public.
- canadianpenfan

I don't know that's entirely true. Sure they could have sat back and waited a year, but if they believe JS is truly a piece they need to get them back to "contender" status, it's hard to sit back and just wait until next year. Explain to the fans...."well next year, we anticipate adding a good player." What's that do for this years sales? Furthermore, come FA next year, the Cains would have had to compete with every other team. Staal says he wants to play with his brother, but it's entirely possible somebody offers him a crazy contract and suddenly getting the family together might not be the most important thing to him.

I think the motivation was pretty equal as was the return. The Canes got a guy who just keep getting better and they have plenty of time now to wrap him up long term. The Pens got a lesser talent, with a couple of good prospects to even it out. I think it was a fair deal. Nice "hockey" trade.

Jordan Staal is definitely the right type of talent, but if he wanted to play with big bro so bad, why did CAR trade away a top 10 pick, a solid 2/3 C and more for one year of JStaal? Why not just wait out the last year of his contract and then sign him as a UFA even if PIT trades him in the meantime. I mean CAR's going to need to sign him after next season when he's UFA anyway. It makes no sense whatsoever. You guys gonna win the Cup this year now? Good luck.

I think this is a beautiful trade for the Canes. The 8th pick in this draft wasn't going to bring in a sure fire impact player and if any year was the year to flip the pick for a player, it'd be this one. Jordan playing the second line role will be a matchup hell for teams and it'll be nice to see this guy get real, offensive minutes for once. He's always been the 3rd fiddle even dating back to his junior days. The talent has always been their to be that guy, but come on, playing behind Malkin and Crosby? Fact of the matter is this deal was a no brainer and with him signing on long term to hang with his brother, the Canes will be laughing.
- Lohaus

Wrong - terrible trade. A solid C and a #8 pick + for a 1 year rental. Not a good trade at all.

Chris Stewart might a nice option for the canes. He could prolly be had for a decent price. Big strong pwr fwrd. Look for the canes to be in on Goose maybe.

I don't know that's entirely true. Sure they could have sat back and waited a year, but if they believe JS is truly a piece they need to get them back to "contender" status, it's hard to sit back and just wait until next year. Explain to the fans...."well next year, we anticipate adding a good player." What's that do for this years sales? Furthermore, come FA next year, the Cains would have had to compete with every other team. Staal says he wants to play with his brother, but it's entirely possible somebody offers him a crazy contract and suddenly getting the family together might not be the most important thing to him.

I think the motivation was pretty equal as was the return. The Canes got a guy who just keep getting better and they have plenty of time now to wrap him up long term. The Pens got a lesser talent, with a couple of good prospects to even it out. I think it was a fair deal. Nice "hockey" trade.
- madmike71

He was going to Carolina either way, I thought he made that pretty clear.

They gave up Sutter, Doumolin and the 8th for 1 year of Staal. What I'm saying is I think this deal was agreed upon, in principle, before the draft and before Staal's comments and Rutherford honored it instead of waiting it out for a season. Yes it will help sell tickets this year, so obviously he thought it was worth it. But my point still stands, he didn't have to do it and he knew it.

Wrong - terrible trade. A solid C and a #8 pick + for a 1 year rental. Not a good trade at all.
- 1979AD

If he is signing there, and already has said thats where he wants to be, how is he considered a rental?

If he is signing there, and already has said thats where he wants to be, how is he considered a rental?
- Lohaus

Because they could have just waited a year and signed him, giving up nothing. As it stands they gave up very valuable assets to have JStaal play for them from now until he becomes UFA. They rented him for this upcoming season, and will then buy him after that.

If he is signing there, and already has said thats where he wants to be, how is he considered a rental?
- Lohaus

duplicate post

Jordan Staal is definitely the right type of talent, but if he wanted to play with big bro so bad, why did CAR trade away a top 10 pick, a solid 2/3 C and more for one year of JStaal? Why not just wait out the last year of his contract and then sign him as a UFA even if PIT trades him in the meantime. I mean CAR's going to need to sign him after next season when he's UFA anyway. It makes no sense whatsoever. You guys gonna win the Cup this year now? Good luck.
- 1979AD

1. Because Staal helps them immediately. A lot can happen in a year. Rutherford gets a full year of Staal and the ability to sign an extension ASAP.
2. Because the goal of GM's is not to screw each other but to make trades that benefit both teams. This isn't fantasy hockey. These guys are and have to make deals all the time, so holding the other guy over the barrel is not the best way to do business.
3. Because Staal isn't a rental. He's been very up front about wanting to play in Carolina.

This isn't fantasy hockey.
- Emperor Filonius

THIS! Thank you for saying that. Because fans want to do well each season and if you don't, you don't get as much revenue. GMs have to consider this is a business and they are going to do better this season, potentially even make the playoffs which is HUGE for a small market team. Unlike toronto who can be a bust every season and still sell out.

1. Because Staal helps them immediately. A lot can happen in a year. Rutherford gets a full year of Staal and the ability to sign an extension ASAP.
2. Because the goal of GM's is not to screw each other but to make trades that benefit both teams. This isn't fantasy hockey. These guys are and have to make deals all the time, so holding the other guy over the barrel is not the best way to do business.
3. Because Staal isn't a rental. He's been very up front about wanting to play in Carolina.
- Emperor Filonius

The goal of GMs is to win the Cup. If you can do so while making trades that benefit both teams, then all the better, but not the primary goal.

Giving up Brandon Sutter, a #8 and a 2nd round D prospect is a high price to pay to have Staal on the team for one extra year. Like I said in a previous post, it's a rent-to-own situation. If I was a 'Canes fan I'd be pissed.