Dee Karl: Isles Rebuild: Mission Impossible? Linked...yep. I did.

I actually enjoyed this post. For the most part Dee was talking about BD's article but I enjoyed the breakdown of the fans and the points as well...well done.

BD's article was great too.

The fans have been TOO patient. This team has been sputtering for almost two decades, sans a couple of seasons in the early 2000's. While Garth's "rebuild" may have only begun during the summer of 2008, this organization's "rebuild" has been going on for decades. Its about time someone got it right.

For the past two decades, the common denominator has been the same with this team: poor ownership. Ever since John Pickett sold to the Gang of Four, the ownership situation with this team has been dreadful. None of the ownership groups since the Gang of Four has been able to get an arena deal done or maintain a competitive payroll. And sadly, none of the ownership groups since Roy Boe have genuinely had the Isles' as their no. 1 priority, including Charles Wang, who I believe bought the team as a real estate investment more than anything else.

I don't like to read or hear (or write) negative stuff about the Islanders, but as fans the only way our displeasure with things can be shown is by expressing it. I think fans' "impatience" stems from long before Garth's tenure began. Its not as if the Isles were a model of consistency and success before Garth took over. Garth's "rebuild" has shown no improvement with the on-ice product at the NHL level for the past four seasons. Yes, the farm system is in much better shape and the core of the team is promising, but none of that promise has impacted the NHL product yet. Phoenix has been league-owned and under threat to move for the past three years, yet they consistently compete and just made it to the Western Conference Finals. The time for excuses is over.

The fans have been TOO patient. This team has been sputtering for almost two decades, sans a couple of seasons in the early 2000's. While Garth's "rebuild" may have only begun during the summer of 2008, this organization's "rebuild" has been going on for decades. Its about time someone got it right.

For the past two decades, the common denominator has been the same with this team: poor ownership. Ever since John Pickett sold to the Gang of Four, the ownership situation with this team has been dreadful. None of the ownership groups since the Gang of Four has been able to get an arena deal done or maintain a competitive payroll. And sadly, none of the ownership groups since Roy Boe have genuinely had the Isles' as their no. 1 priority, including Charles Wang, who I believe bought the team as a real estate investment more than anything else.


I don't like to read or hear (or write) negative stuff about the Islanders, but as fans the only way our displeasure with things can be shown is by expressing it. I think fans' "impatience" stems from long before Garth's tenure began. Its not as if the Isles were a model of consistency and success before Garth took over. Garth's "rebuild" has shown no improvement with the on-ice product at the NHL level for the past four seasons. Yes, the farm system is in much better shape and the core of the team is promising, but none of that promise has impacted the NHL product yet. Phoenix has been league-owned and under threat to move for the past three years, yet they consistently compete and just made it to the Western Conference Finals. The time for excuses is over.
- Jethro09

Well put!

The fans have been TOO patient. This team has been sputtering for almost two decades, sans a couple of seasons in the early 2000's. While Garth's "rebuild" may have only begun during the summer of 2008, this organization's "rebuild" has been going on for decades. Its about time someone got it right.

For the past two decades, the common denominator has been the same with this team: poor ownership. Ever since John Pickett sold to the Gang of Four, the ownership situation with this team has been dreadful. None of the ownership groups since the Gang of Four has been able to get an arena deal done or maintain a competitive payroll. And sadly, none of the ownership groups since Roy Boe have genuinely had the Isles' as their no. 1 priority, including Charles Wang, who I believe bought the team as a real estate investment more than anything else.

I don't like to read or hear (or write) negative stuff about the Islanders, but as fans the only way our displeasure with things can be shown is by expressing it. I think fans' "impatience" stems from long before Garth's tenure began. Its not as if the Isles were a model of consistency and success before Garth took over. Garth's "rebuild" has shown no improvement with the on-ice product at the NHL level for the past four seasons. Yes, the farm system is in much better shape and the core of the team is promising, but none of that promise has impacted the NHL product yet. Phoenix has been league-owned and under threat to move for the past three years, yet they consistently compete and just made it to the Western Conference Finals. The time for excuses is over.
- Jethro09

When it's just your own team's fans complaining, it's impatience. When the media completely ignores you, analysts snicker when they talk about you, every other teams' fans laugh at you, and players consider your team as either exile or just a way to rehab a career, then maybe, and I know this is some revolutionary thinking here, but maybe something needs to change a bit higher up the totem pole?

The fans have been TOO patient. This team has been sputtering for almost two decades, sans a couple of seasons in the early 2000's. While Garth's "rebuild" may have only begun during the summer of 2008, this organization's "rebuild" has been going on for decades. Its about time someone got it right.

For the past two decades, the common denominator has been the same with this team: poor ownership. Ever since John Pickett sold to the Gang of Four, the ownership situation with this team has been dreadful. None of the ownership groups since the Gang of Four has been able to get an arena deal done or maintain a competitive payroll. And sadly, none of the ownership groups since Roy Boe have genuinely had the Isles' as their no. 1 priority, including Charles Wang, who I believe bought the team as a real estate investment more than anything else.

I don't like to read or hear (or write) negative stuff about the Islanders, but as fans the only way our displeasure with things can be shown is by expressing it. I think fans' "impatience" stems from long before Garth's tenure began. Its not as if the Isles were a model of consistency and success before Garth took over. Garth's "rebuild" has shown no improvement with the on-ice product at the NHL level for the past four seasons. Yes, the farm system is in much better shape and the core of the team is promising, but none of that promise has impacted the NHL product yet. Phoenix has been league-owned and under threat to move for the past three years, yet they consistently compete and just made it to the Western Conference Finals. The time for excuses is over.
- Jethro09

I understand your frustration I truly do.. but let's not get carried away. In 2009 when Phx made the playoffs it was the first time in 8 years. This year was the first time they ever made it out of the first round since they moved the team there in 1996. They had a great run and have a really solid young team with some great young prospects too... They were EXACTLY where we are in 2008.

As BD's article states this is a pretty big year for the Islanders. This owner and GM has to show improvement and make the playoffs. This is year 5 of the rebuild they both said would take 5 years. To include the Milbury, Spano, 4 dingbats and other nonsense with this rebuild is entirely unfair. All of those picks from those years are gone... all of those GM's, Owners, Players, etc. The only player from those 20 years of garbage is Franz. It seem right when a franchise is at it's last chance moment they turn it around (Penguins, Phx, etc.). I can only hope and pray this will be our last chance turn around... or else they are gone.

I understand your frustration I truly do.. but let's not get carried away. In 2009 when Phx made the playoffs it was the first time in 8 years. This year was the first time they ever made it out of the first round since they moved the team there in 1996. They had a great run and have a really solid young team with some great young prospects too... They were EXACTLY where we are in 2008.

As BD's article states this is a pretty big year for the Islanders. This owner and GM has to show improvement and make the playoffs. This is year 5 of the rebuild they both said would take 5 years. To include the Milbury, Spano, 4 dingbats and other nonsense with this rebuild is entirely unfair. All of those picks from those years are gone... all of those GM's, Owners, Players, etc. The only player from those 20 years of garbage is Franz. It seem right when a franchise is at it's last chance moment they turn it around (Penguins, Phx, etc.). I can only hope and pray this will be our last chance turn around... or else they are gone.
- niteislander

What is your flavor of choice, sir?

What is your flavor of choice, sir?


- BringBackBalky

When it's just your own team's fans complaining, it's impatience. When the media completely ignores you, analysts snicker when they talk about you, every other teams' fans laugh at you, and players consider your team as either exile or just a way to rehab a career, then maybe, and I know this is some revolutionary thinking here, but maybe something needs to change a bit higher up the totem pole?
- UIF

Bingo

One point to note...

The Isles rebuild began at the 2008 draft... that is less than 4 years ago. And no rebuild: Caps, Blackhawks, Penguins or such has been any faster. Pens took 5 years and got a generational player... no, actually two of them. Tavares is neither Crosby or Malkin, despite the wonderful development into a key player.

You can complain about Garth's tenure, but it was not until the 2008 season under Nolan as the team just fell apart that a rebuild was decided on and committed to.

I think what comes into play into fan feelings/perception is fact of the miserable years under Milbury and above all... the very frustrating and concerning venue situation. Also, only Frans and Okposo were integral pieces in system before this, so not working with a whole lot here (Andy Mac in my mind is a depth Dman)

So, I think we all need to add those factors to the issues here to really make an assessment.

I understand your frustration I truly do.. but let's not get carried away. In 2009 when Phx made the playoffs it was the first time in 8 years. This year was the first time they ever made it out of the first round since they moved the team there in 1996. They had a great run and have a really solid young team with some great young prospects too... They were EXACTLY where we are in 2008.

As BD's article states this is a pretty big year for the Islanders. This owner and GM has to show improvement and make the playoffs. This is year 5 of the rebuild they both said would take 5 years. To include the Milbury, Spano, 4 dingbats and other nonsense with this rebuild is entirely unfair. All of those picks from those years are gone... all of those GM's, Owners, Players, etc. The only player from those 20 years of garbage is Franz. It seem right when a franchise is at it's last chance moment they turn it around (Penguins, Phx, etc.). I can only hope and pray this will be our last chance turn around... or else they are gone.
- niteislander

Eh, one pretty big key difference. Phoenix didn't just push youngsters into service and then watch them struggle until they finally got it. The organization recognized its mistakes after doing that for a couple of years and put several of its youngsters back into the minors (and it's been a tough road back for some of them since, supporting the idea that rushing prospects can delay development). Then they went out and traded for and signed quality vets to take over those roster spots. That was the year they made the playoffs. The Isles have not shown either the willingness or ability (pick one, it's a debate for another day) to do that.

Guys ....... wondering, dont know if anyone is on twitter, but if so
anyone follow Incarcerated BOB,
whether or not you find him accurate or not, I do find him
to be about 75% rite on things...
yesterday he tweeted about the 4th pick + DeHaan for Subban
whats your take, I dont know if theres more to it but I like it...

Eh, one pretty big key difference. Phoenix didn't just push youngsters into service and then watch them struggle until they finally got it. The organization recognized its mistakes after doing that for a couple of years and put several of its youngsters back into the minors (and it's been a tough road back for some of them since, supporting the idea that rushing prospects can delay development). Then they went out and traded for and signed quality vets to take over those roster spots. That was the year they made the playoffs. The Isles have not shown either the willingness or ability (pick one, it's a debate for another day) to do that.
- UIF

phoenix totally rushed turris and boedeker before they were ready..they were awful and they learned from their mistakes and put them in the minors

One point to note...

The Isles rebuild began at the 2008 draft... that is less than 4 years ago. And no rebuild: Caps, Blackhawks, Penguins or such has been any faster. Pens took 5 years and got a generational player... no, actually two of them. Tavares is neither Crosby or Malkin, despite the wonderful development into a key player.

You can complain about Garth's tenure, but it was not until the 2008 season under Nolan as the team just fell apart that a rebuild was decided on and committed to.

I think what comes into play into fan feelings/perception is fact of the miserable years under Milbury and above all... the very frustrating and concerning venue situation. Also, only Frans and Okposo were integral pieces in system before this, so not working with a whole lot here (Andy Mac in my mind is a depth Dman)

So, I think we all need to add those factors to the issues here to really make an assessment.
- B.D. Gallof

Agreed that the Isles were a mess when Snow took over. I'm sure some of us have walked into jobs where the previous person who held it royally screwed things up for far longer than he/she should have been allowed to. My question is...in those situations, how long do you realistically get away with blaming the previous employee for everything that goes wrong?

I think one of the greatest debates among Isles fans is figuring out accountability. This faction blames Milbury, that faction blames Snow, this other faction blames Wang, some others blame the players, etc. Shouldn't someone in the organization be the Harry Truman and stand up and say, "I'm in charge of what goes on here as far as the team is concerned. I'll take responsibility for what happens on the ice from this point forward." Instead, the sign on the desk seems to say "The buck stops where?"

being optimisitc doesn't mean you are a kool-aid drinker..ripping the team doesn't make you a hater...i try and be objective..i don't see anything happening until the arena is solved..and unless changes are made..specifically to the blue line i have no expectations of them making the playoffs. i'm not hating..i'm not drinking kool aid i'm just being objective

phoenix totally rushed turris and boedeker before they were ready..they were awful and they learned from their mistakes and put them in the minors
- NYI78

Yeah, that's what I said:

The organization recognized its mistakes after doing that for a couple of years and put several of its youngsters back into the minors

Yeah, that's what I said:

The organization recognized its mistakes after doing that for a couple of years and put several of its youngsters back into the minors
- UIF

thats valid..my bad i misread your comment.

thats valid..my bad i misread your comment.
- NYI78

Understandable...the sentence before that one probably should have been worded better.

Guys ....... wondering, dont know if anyone is on twitter, but if so
anyone follow Incarcerated BOB,
whether or not you find him accurate or not, I do find him
to be about 75% rite on things...
yesterday he tweeted about the 4th pick + DeHaan for Subban
whats your take, I dont know if theres more to it but I like it...
- Ur Not Me

highly doubtful. just like his Semin rumor last season which had no merit whatsoever.

his 75% isn't on Isles hockey. Not sure where you are getting that from.

The chances the Isles trade out of 1st round is very slim, and above all, would only trade for someone locked into a contract who is young. PK is a RFA, so within the realm of possibility but here is the problem...

Isles have yet to trade ANY rebuild chip. de Haan is projected to be a possible #2 dman. Montreal could get much better return if PK was to be shopped.

highly doubtful. just like his Semin rumor last season which had no merit whatsoever.

his 75% isn't on Isles hockey. Not sure where you are getting that from.

The chances the Isles trade out of 1st round is very slim, and above all, would only trade for someone locked into a contract who is young. PK is a RFA, so within the realm of possibility but here is the problem...

Isles have yet to trade ANY rebuild chip. de Haan is projected to be a possible #2 dman. Montreal could get much better return if PK was to be shopped.
- B.D. Gallof

agreed...on the trade market you can get a better chip than de haan

Agreed that the Isles were a mess when Snow took over. I'm sure some of us have walked into jobs where the previous person who held it royally screwed things up for far longer than he/she should have been allowed to. My question is...in those situations, how long do you realistically get away with blaming the previous employee for everything that goes wrong?

I think one of the greatest debates among Isles fans is figuring out accountability. This faction blames Milbury, that faction blames Snow, this other faction blames Wang, some others blame the players, etc. Shouldn't someone in the organization be the Harry Truman and stand up and say, "I'm in charge of what goes on here as far as the team is concerned. I'll take responsibility for what happens on the ice from this point forward." Instead, the sign on the desk seems to say "The buck stops where?"
- UIF

i think EVERYONE blames wang....its a matter of do you blame wang simply because he has a stranglehold on the entire organization or do you blame wang/snow for not teaming up and try to figure things out....(personally, i blame just wang...for now)


from that point of view, IE blaming wang, i cant expect anyone to be the harry truman and stand up because i feel that wang would/has already cut off everyones legs. meaning, the second you speak up, youre out...its a dictatorship in that office and he doesnt want to hear otherwise....

agreed...on the trade market you can get a better chip than de haan
- NYI78

if anything.... Montreal would rather deal with Edmonton for the #1 spot. Edmonton needs D in the worst way. Now there would be a possible angle.

highly doubtful. just like his Semin rumor last season which had no merit whatsoever.

his 75% isn't on Isles hockey. Not sure where you are getting that from.

The chances the Isles trade out of 1st round is very slim, and above all, would only trade for someone locked into a contract who is young. PK is a RFA, so within the realm of possibility but here is the problem...

Isles have yet to trade ANY rebuild chip. de Haan is projected to be a possible #2 dman. Montreal could get much better return if PK was to be shopped.
- B.D. Gallof

but in that scenario they are getting the "4th best prospect" in this years draft along with dehaan; i dont think thats such a lowball or at least in the ballpark of what other teams would be offering...