Ian Esplen: Is there a loophole? Is there a loophole?

I don't think they were allowed to sign bought out players (same team) last time around, so I highly doubt they missed this in this agreement.

Ian Esplen: Is there a loophole?
Is there a loophole?
- IanEsplen

Using last time as an example you cannot do that.

SUMMER 2005
How long does a Club have to exercise a compliance buyout?
There will be a six-day period commencing on July 23, 2005 and ending at 5:00 p.m. ET on July 29, 2005 during which Clubs may terminate and buy out player contracts.
Can such a player, who is bought out pursuant to this procedure, be re-signed by the Club that bought him out?
A player that has been bought out during the compliance buy-out period cannot rejoin his old Club during the 2005-06 season.
When does the period for free agency begin?
The free agency period will begin on August 1, 2005.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366

Think about how many teams would have done that last time if it were allowed?

Even if he could, why the crud would he resign with the team that just bought him out, only to be traded? If he was going to sign for 2.5-3/yr, why wouldn't he want to decide himself where to go?

I think your loophole proposal with Luongo only works if Luongo and his agent are incapable of exercising free will and common sense.

Funny. I'm just doing up a piece on Lecavalier regarding a buyout period. Not as simple as it may seem.

Even if he could, why the crud would he resign with the team that just bought him out, only to be traded? If he was going to sign for 2.5-3/yr, why wouldn't he want to decide himself where to go?

I think your loophole proposal with Luongo only works if Luongo and his agent are incapable of exercising free will and common sense.
- the_terror

My thoughts exactly. Luongo is downright pissed they bailed on him so quick for Schneider. (not that I blame the Nucks, but you have to be looking at this from Luongos view under your proposal) No chance he does the Canucks any favours, plus he is going to want more than, and will get more than, 2.5-3 million. I estimate 4-5 million, because most teams should/would want him for around 4-5 years, not the 7 you're giving him. Hell be 34 when next season starts and you think teams will want him until he is 41? Come on Ian...

luongo's cap hit would be more attractive to more teams therefore he may go to a team of his choosing

Funny. I'm just doing up a piece on Lecavalier regarding a buyout period. Not as simple as it may seem.
- Michael_Stuart

Especially with the NTC factor.

This is so hilarious! It hardly warrants fatiguing my thumbs, but I can't resist. Why would BoobyLu even consider re-signing with Vancouver for less than market value if he knew that the Leafs, let's say, would pay him considerably more? Furthermore, why would the Vancouver Canucks ever pay 33mil (to use your number) only to acquire MARGINALLY better assets for an aging goalie no longer at his prime? It's always best to think these sorts of things through eh? He's not the franchise player he was thought to be. There aren't going to be that many more teams lining up to get him.

Ian Esplen: Is there a loophole?
Is there a loophole?
- IanEsplen

Let's go with my loophole, Mr. Esplen:

On June 25th, the Lightning trade Vinny, rounder and 2 1sts and a 2nd to Toronto for the signing rights to upcoming UFA Tim Connolly.

Leafs buy out Vinny.

Tampa Bay decides not to tender an offer to Connolly.

Everyone is happy.

Let's go with my loophole, Mr. Esplen:

On June 25th, the Lightning trade Vinny, rounder and 2 1sts and a 2nd to Toronto for the signing rights to upcoming UFA Tim Connolly.

Leafs buy out Vinny.

Tampa Bay decides not to tender an offer to Connolly.

Everyone is happy.
- Atomic Wedgie

Do one for Lu

Let's go with my loophole, Mr. Esplen:

On June 25th, the Lightning trade Vinny, rounder and 2 1sts and a 2nd to Toronto for the signing rights to upcoming UFA Tim Connolly.

Leafs buy out Vinny.

Tampa Bay decides not to tender an offer to Connolly.

Everyone is happy.
- Atomic Wedgie

The Lightning isn't. Why would the Bolts trade Lecavalier to the Leafs with two firsts and a second, only to save the cap space? Wouldn't it make more sense for Vinik, who has given Yzerman the green light to spend, to simply buy out Lecavalier and keep the draft picks? Tampa's got the money to do it, contrary to what a lot of fans around the league think.

Plus, it's not at simple as just getting rid of Lecavalier. Who does the Lightning replace him with? There's nobody in the system at present time. If Yzerman is to get rid of Lecavalier, it's going to be with a carefully crafted plan.

Funny. I'm just doing up a piece on Lecavalier regarding a buyout period. Not as simple as it may seem.
- Michael_Stuart

I would not buy Vinnie out. He sells way too many tickets imo, but you would have a better idea of what he means to that team.

I would not buy Vinnie out. He sells way too many tickets imo, but you would have a better idea of what he means to that team.
- IanEsplen

That's just it. He's not worth the money from a production standpoint, but he brings a lot to the community and the team. I'll be interested to follow this story as it unfolds. Post coming shortly.

The Lightning isn't. Why would the Bolts trade Lecavalier to the Leafs with two firsts and a second, only to save the cap space? Wouldn't it make more sense for Vinik, who has given Yzerman the green light to spend, to simply buy out Lecavalier and keep the draft picks? Tampa's got the money to do it, contrary to what a lot of fans around the league think.

Plus, it's not at simple as just getting rid of Lecavalier. Who does the Lightning replace him with? There's nobody in the system at present time. If Yzerman is to get rid of Lecavalier, it's going to be with a carefully crafted plan.
- Michael_Stuart

God bless common sense....

That's just it. He's not worth the money from a production standpoint, but he brings a lot to the community and the team. I'll be interested to follow this story as it unfolds. Post coming shortly.
- Michael_Stuart

IMHO, its worth it to pay him 100% of his pay to play and help the team than to pay 66% of it to not play at all. Especially, as you said, hes good for the community and the team needs him on the ice.

IMHO, its worth it to pay him 100% of his pay to play and help the team than to pay 66% of it to not play at all. Especially, as you said, hes good for the community and the team needs him on the ice.
- systemtool

How is the amount of the buy-out set? Two-thirds of total owing?

IMHO, its worth it to pay him 100% of his pay to play and help the team than to pay 66% of it to not play at all. Especially, as you said, hes good for the community and the team needs him on the ice.
- systemtool

Exactly. The Lightning has nobody to replace him and he's been a fixture in Tampa for many years. With Stamkos, he forms arguably the best one-two punch in the league. Not many teams have a second line center as solid as Lecavalier. 90+ points from Stamkos and 60+ (when healthy) from Lecavalier is pretty damn good with me.

How is the amount of the buy-out set? Two-thirds of total owing?
- Canada Cup

Im assuming that, but I havent looked it up. Good question.

Using last time as an example you cannot do that.

SUMMER 2005
How long does a Club have to exercise a compliance buyout?
There will be a six-day period commencing on July 23, 2005 and ending at 5:00 p.m. ET on July 29, 2005 during which Clubs may terminate and buy out player contracts.
Can such a player, who is bought out pursuant to this procedure, be re-signed by the Club that bought him out?
A player that has been bought out during the compliance buy-out period cannot rejoin his old Club during the 2005-06 season.
When does the period for free agency begin?
The free agency period will begin on August 1, 2005.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366
- burn

I'm pretty sure that's still infect for current buyouts as well.

The Lightning isn't. Why would the Bolts trade Lecavalier to the Leafs with two firsts and a second, only to save the cap space? Wouldn't it make more sense for Vinik, who has given Yzerman the green light to spend, to simply buy out Lecavalier and keep the draft picks? Tampa's got the money to do it, contrary to what a lot of fans around the league think.

Plus, it's not at simple as just getting rid of Lecavalier. Who does the Lightning replace him with? There's nobody in the system at present time. If Yzerman is to get rid of Lecavalier, it's going to be with a carefully crafted plan.
- Michael_Stuart

I'll ignore the grammatical error and address your question:

First and foremost, it was a theoretical example.

Having said that..

Would Vinik be willing to pay $30 million in a buyout, and wave goodbye to Vinny? I doubt it.

Better to trade him, have the other team do the expensive dirty work, and then hope Vinny gives you a home team discount.

Remember: if you buy him out, you can't re-sign him.

But let's be clear: if there is going to be a $60 cap, Vinny's almost $8 million cap hit is a problem which is only going to get worse. Ignore it at your peril.

I'll ignore the grammatical error and address your question:

First and foremost, it was a theoretical example.

Having said that..

Would Vinik be willing to pay $30 million in a buyout, and wave goodbye to Vinny? I doubt it.

Better to trade him, have the other team do the expensive dirty work, and then hope Vinny gives you a home team discount.

Remember: if you buy him out, you can't re-sign him.

But let's be clear: if there is going to be a $60 cap, Vinny's almost $8 million cap hit is a problem which is only going to get worse. Ignore it at your peril.
- Atomic Wedgie

Which grammatical error? I'm assuming you're referring to "Lightning" being referred to as a singular being despite being a grouping of players. If you read a bunch of TBO stuff and various releases, you'll see that they refer to the Lightning as a collective individual (Eg. Lightning is, Lightning has, etc.).

Worry about the future in a few years. There's no significant cap worry here. With players like Salo and St. Louis set to retire and a bounty of young talent coming up through the ranks making near league minimum, the Lightning isn't in a ton of trouble.

From Lightning news release: "The Tampa Bay Lightning is making sure to stay on the right side of the CAN-SPAM Act by implementing data management techniques that collect and maintain opt-out lists."

Recall that the Lightning is an organization. Singular.

I'm pretty sure that's still infect for current buyouts as well.
- Drij

Indeed it is.

Which grammatical error? I'm assuming you're referring to "Lightning" being referred to as a singular being despite being a grouping of players. If you read all team press releases and information, you'll see that they refer to the Lightning as a collective individual (Eg. Lightning is, Lightning has, etc.).

Worry about the future in a few years. There's no significant cap worry here. With players like Salo and St. Louis set to retire and a bounty of young talent coming up through the ranks making near league minimum, the Lightning isn't in a ton of trouble.
- Michael_Stuart

You'll forgive me for getting pissy about this, but it is grammatically incorrect. Sorry, but for me, it is like nails on a blackboard.

As for the subject at hand, I really didn't want to be drawn into a debate about the merits of Vinny. I was just using him as an example to illustrate my identifed loophole: a small market team trades a bad contract + assets to a big market team. BMT then buys out the player.

We agree to disagree on Vinny. I like him; just not at that cap hit.