This isn't about Katz. The owner's financial status has zero to do with this. This is about $myth.

If I'm an employee of Bill Gates, his wealth does not make it acceptable for me to act like a tard.
- laughs2907

Why not? Smyths financial status seemed to have everything to do with it?

He was greedy for negotiating over 100's of thousands because he's made 50 million but Katz isn't despite making billions?

He played like a 1st line winger for the first 20 games... The rest of the season? Yeah, he played like a 3rd/4th liner.
- laughs2907

He scored like an elite, top 5 LW his first 20 games and a 3rd liner the next 60.

3rd liner is fair, 4th liner isn't.

He was the 36th highest scoring LW last year. Any mention of 4th line is ridiculous.
- Zombie

45 game (Jan 1 to end of season): 16 points, 5 goals. He failed out when needed the most. Hot start and all that is great but he does not have enough to play a full season at high caliber.

Get him on another team and he is not 2nd line any more, his talents are running out...fast. He is 3rd line and falling

Why not? Smyths financial status seemed to have everything to do with it?
- Zombie

That's not how it works. You don't base your value on what the owner has -- Your value is based on what players with similar skill make.

That's like me applying as a janitor at Microsoft and saying, "Bill has lots of money, give me $500,000 a year"

He scored like an elite, top 5 LW his first 20 games and a 3rd liner the next 60.

3rd liner is fair, 4th liner isn't.
- Zombie

Yes, 3rd line and falling. Thus closer to 4th than 2nd.

That's not how it works. You don't base your value on what the owner has -- Your value is based on what players with similar skill make.

That's like me applying as a janitor at Microsoft and saying, "Bill has lots of money, give me $500,000 a year"
- laughs2907

But are you an elite Top 5 janitor? At least for 4 months of the year...

But are you an elite Top 5 janitor? At least for 4 months of the year...
- OilHorse

Yeah, I was for the first 3-4 months, but after that I cleaned like sh1t.

45 game (Jan 1 to end of season): 16 points, 5 goals. He failed out when needed the most. Hot start and all that is great but he does not have enough to play a full season at high caliber.

Get him on another team and he is not 2nd line any more, his talents are running out...fast. He is 3rd line and falling
- OilHorse

Yup, those are (very good) third line numbers, that's why I said 3rd line was fair.

Yeah, I was for the first 3-4 months, but after that I cleaned like sh1t.
- laughs2907

You bastard...I am not gonna pay you more than 350k a year...

That's not how it works. You don't base your value on what the owner has -- Your value is based on what players with similar skill make.

That's like me applying as a janitor at Microsoft and saying, "Bill has lots of money, give me $500,000 a year"
- laughs2907

Exactly!! The owners net worth have nothing to do with it.... Just like smyths past earnings have nothing to do with it.

Tip, those are (very good) third line numbers, that's why I said 3rd line was fair.
- Zombie

Tip...he is getting older and slower and it is proven that he cannot keep a high pace through the whole season. Thus he is slipping further away from 2nd line and closer to 4th.

Tip#2 those would be avg #s for 3rd, not Very Good.

Exactly!! The owners net worth have nothing to do with it.... Just like smyths past earnings have nothing to do with it.
- Zombie

But the contracts of those in similar situations, with similar stats do have somehting to do with what his contract would say...so for him to turn away a fair contract and counter with something much less fair and over priced is ridiculous...and ridiculous to defend.

Tip...he is getting older and slower and it is proven that he cannot keep a high pace through the whole season. Thus he is slipping further away from 2nd line and closer to 4th.

Tip#2 those would be avg #s for 3rd, not Very Good.
- OilHorse

That's .36ppg which would be 69th amongst LW with 25+ games played... Ie good 3rd line numbers.

But the contracts of those in similar situations, with similar stats do have somehting to do with what his contract would say...so for him to turn away a fair contract and counter with something much less fair and over priced is ridiculous...and ridiculous to defend.
- OilHorse

I never said otherwise, I disagreed with him bringing up his past earnings as justification as to why he can't negotiate for more $$$.

As for the rest, this is a negotiation. The oilers don't owe him anything and he doesn't owe the oilers anything. He free to ask for whatever he wants and the team is free to offer whatever they want. If they can't agree then they part ways, but Hes not doing some type of disservice by asking for more, its part of the process that happens everyday in all forms of business.

Exactly!! The owners net worth have nothing to do with it.... Just like smyths past earnings have nothing to do with it.
- Zombie

This is not really about his past earnings. The only reason I brought that up was to make a small point that $myth most likely isn't in a position where he needs the money... If the guy was broke, I could probably cut him some slack.

Anyway, it's not like I'm trying to screw the guy or anything. $myth requested to come back "home" and when players do that, there's usually a hometown discount. Similar players have been signing for 2-2.2 million per... Several of us said we would have been happy to have $myth sign for 2.5 (hometown discount out the window). The thing that bothers me is that $myth is after 3.25 million... That's the opposite of how it's supposed to work. Than again, perhaps he thinks he's Crosby, and the 3.25mil is a hometown discount.

But the contracts of those in similar situations, with similar stats do have somehting to do with what his contract would say...so for him to turn away a fair contract and counter with something much less fair and over priced is ridiculous...and ridiculous to defend.
- OilHorse

Exactly!

That's .36ppg which would be 69th amongst LW with 25+ games played... Ie good 3rd line numbers.
- Zombie

45 games, 16 points...29 points for a 82 game season...avg 3rd line numbers

16/45==0.355*82==29.15...round down to 29...30 being about avg for 3rd line and he is slightly below but close enough to count...

and he is getting older, and slower.

I never said otherwise, I disagreed with him bringing up his past earnings as justification as to why he can't negotiate for more $$$.

As for the rest, this is a negotiation. The oilers don't owe him anything and he doesn't owe the oilers anything. He free to ask for whatever he wants and the team is free to offer whatever they want. If they can't agree then they part ways, but Hes not doing some type of disservice by asking for more, its part of the process that happens everyday in all forms of business.
- Zombie

What Laughs said.

He is the one last summer that initiated the trade to come back to Edm. He wants to retire in Edm, he wants to be a part of what is going on..etc...

The team did him a good one by doing the trade...they essentially righted a wrong of a few years ago when he was sent away. i think they went above and beyond righting a wrong.

Does he "owe" them? No. But I agree with Laughs, if he is all about what he is saying he is all about then taking a few 100k less for the "discount" to end his career an Oiler should be a no brainer.

This is not really about his past earnings. The only reason I brought that up was to make a small point that $myth most likely isn't in a position where he needs the money... If the guy was broke, I could probably cut him some slack.

Anyway, it's not like I'm trying to screw the guy or anything. $myth requested to come back "home" and when players do that, there's usually a hometown discount. Similar players have been signing for 2-2.2 million per... Several of us said we would have been happy to have $myth sign for 2.5 (hometown discount out the window). The thing that bothers me is that $myth is after 3.25 million... That's the opposite of how it's supposed to work. Than again, perhaps he thinks he's Crosby, and the 3.25mil is a hometown discount.
- laughs2907

You have no idea what he's after, the rumour is that he counter offered with that... That is the point of negotiations, more often then not you start high and negotiate down.

You have no idea what he's after, the rumour is that he counter offered with that... That is the point of negotiations, more often then not you start high and negotiate down.
- Zombie

Funny though that the team didn't low ball him, they offered a Bertuzzi like contract, being 2 year 2.25 per...

So one side is just throwing a fair offer and the other is high balling. Interesting...

Funny though that the team didn't low ball him, they offered a Bertuzzi like contract, being 2 year 2.25 per...

So one side is just throwing a fair offer and the other is high balling. Interesting...
- OilHorse

Werent you just defending suttons 500k+ overpay?

Funny though that the team didn't low ball him, they offered a Bertuzzi like contract, being 2 year 2.25 per...

So one side is just throwing a fair offer and the other is high balling. Interesting...
- OilHorse

Yup... That basically sums it up.

Werent you just defending suttons 500k+ overpay?
- Zombie

Missed where Sutton begged for Edm to get him away from the Kings and bring him home to retire...long term loss of short term memory I guess...

Missed where Sutton begged for Edm to get him away from the Kings and bring him home to retire...long term loss of short term memory I guess...
- OilHorse

Irrelevant

Irrelevant
- Zombie

Actually its everything. Sutton has zero of the emotional investment that Smytty does in Edmonton, both from the fanbase and vice versa.